[pramodkumar]

ok a real newbish question, What is the difference between a MG 410 and a 410W, i know w stands for wide track, but in a layman terms what exactly is wide track what is the benefit in terms of offroading over a narrow track. can a narrow track converted to wide track? is it worth it?. The questions are because i recently asked one of my friend in delhi to check out the prices of ex army gypsis, a 98 model carb king would cost about 70K without all the registration and paperwork. But since the gypsy bug was biting me deaper as every day passes by i was thinking why not an old 410, the older the cheaper. I know 410 W came after 93, so if i go for a pre 93 non wide track gypsy what exactly am i missing? I need serious answers as this might influence my buying decission and the speed with which i aquire my love.


Pramod

[JeepCaptain]

Originally Posted by annu0706

thanks guys.
so do you plan to keep it or it'll be removed as you are shifting to a soft top

Annu, you cannot keep that piece if you wanna go for a softop and it was removed right after taking those pics. Check out my new pics and you will see.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

ok a real newbish question, What is the difference between a MG 410 and a 410W, i know w stands for wide track, but in a layman terms what exactly is wide track what is the benefit in terms of offroading over a narrow track. can a narrow track converted to wide track? is it worth it?. The questions are because i recently asked one of my friend in delhi to check out the prices of ex army gypsis, a 98 model carb king would cost about 70K without all the registration and paperwork. But since the gypsy bug was biting me deaper as every day passes by i was thinking why not an old 410, the older the cheaper. I know 410 W came after 93, so if i go for a pre 93 non wide track gypsy what exactly am i missing? I need serious answers as this might influence my buying decission and the speed with which i aquire my love.

Pramod

Pramod,
Let me answer your questions one by one.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

i know w stands for wide track, but in a layman terms what exactly is wide track what is the benefit in terms of offroading over a narrow track.

Other than better looks, there is not much advantage if you are into slow driving and offroading.
But makes a big difference on highway driving and esp rallies. Wider track gives you more stability, more maneuverability and better braking.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

can a narrow track converted to wide track? is it worth it?.

Practically NO! and technically YES .
If you replace the chassis, both rear and front axles you can convert MG410 to MG10W else you need access to and engineering shop who can modify the narrow track chassis to wide track with zero error. But thats only for the chassis and you still need to get those wider axles. Not worth it mate. Dont even think about it.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

The questions are because i recently asked one of my friend in delhi to check out the prices of ex army gypsis, a 98 model carb king would cost about 70K without all the registration and paperwork.

Dude, add another 100K to it (for transporting, restoring and registering). So keep this mind if you are going for ex-army gypsies.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

so if i go for a pre 93 non wide track gypsy what exactly am i missing?

Nothing much except the looks if you are buying it for more offroading and less cruising.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

I need serious answers as this might influence my buying decission and the speed with which i aquire my love.

Hope my answers were serious enough so that I will see you with a Gypsy in the next Team 4x4 Extreme OTR

[JeepCaptain]

More pics with Gypsy Custom Soft Top Done.

I was trying to replicate the same what was there on my White Gypsy. But unfortunately it did not turned out to be the same. But not bad aswell.

Check this out.

[sandeepgnair]

Originally Posted by JeepCaptain

More pics with Gypsy Custom Soft Top Done.

I was trying to replicate the same what was there on my White Gypsy. But unfortunately it did not turned out to be the same. But not bad aswell.

Check this out.

Hi Shibuchayan, nice snaps. I like that snap where we can see white in background. Both looks good. Initially when I took my vehicle i was using like the same, but then closed the back side (same top extended to back like a cover) as there was water leaking inside.

[JeepCaptain]

[quote=sandeepgnair;1575392]

Originally Posted by JeepCaptain

More pics with Gypsy Custom Soft Top Done.

I was trying to replicate the same what was there on my White Gypsy. But unfortunately it did not turned out to be the same. But not bad aswell.

Check this out.


Hi Shibuchayan, nice snaps. I like that snap where we can see white in background. Both looks good. Initially when I took my vehicle i was using like the same, but then closed the back side (same top extended to back like a cover) as there was water leaking inside.

Sandeep, yes you are right white one is also there in one pic. I wish I had taken some good pics with both white and yellow together before it was gone.

[REMU]

Congrats JeepCaptain

It's really worth reading the restoration stories and the hardship all goes through getting the final beauty out.

From the piece of metal no one bothered to have a look to the one where all eyes fall and resist to take off, that itself speaks all about the work. Ofcourse the dream come true is something beyond explanation.

Cheers,
Remu

[JeepCaptain]

Originally Posted by REMU

Congrats JeepCaptain

It's really worth reading the restoration stories and the hardship all goes through getting the final beauty out.

From the piece of metal no one bothered to have a look to the one where all eyes fall and resist to take off, that itself speaks all about the work. Ofcourse the dream come true is something beyond explanation.

Cheers,
Remu

Remu, Thanks bro. You said it rightly.
Whatever you see now is a dream come true for me. And the satisfaction one gets after a successful restoration is beyond words.

I've been dreaming these projects since last 15-20 years ever since I started looking into Jeeps and 4x4's seriously. I used to drool over the 4x4 restoration and build up projects that used to appear in those Western 4x4 magazines in late 80's. And now I realised its time for me to live my dreams.

You see my signature and that one line explains it all.

JC

[JeepCaptain]

Gypsy gets 2.5" Body lift ,15 x 8J Alloys & 31" Tyres.

Since all the teething issues were sorted out I decided to work on the performance mods.

To start with I wanted to lift the Gypsy. Since SPOA was not easy and needs more time and expert hands. I had to choose between body lift or shackle lift which was relatively easy.

I was planning to go for a shackle lift and my uncle who owns/runs a MASS objected my idea and suggested to go for a body lift which will allow me to put the 31" Yokohoma's i have identified without affecting the vehicle geometry or handling.

So one day I took the Gypsy to my uncle's MASS. There we measured the tyre OD, current ground clearance, wheel arches and the clearance between the tyre and wheelarches did some calculation and figured out that a 2.5" body lift will be sufficient to accomodate a 31" tyre on 15x8J wide alloys and if its not we will go for a small shackle lift of about half inches.

Lifting was done in 3 days time with minor modifications listed below.
1) Had to replace brake hoses with longer ones (from vitara I guess)
2) Modify the fuel hose from filler cap to tank to accomodate the lift.
3) Reinforce the body mouting points.

I dont have pics of the lifting but I have some pics with new Alloys and tyres.

Tyres and Alloys

The next task was to install the tyres and wheels.

Got the alloys from delhi and it is P&W brand and size is 15 x 8J. (-ve offset)
I had bought the alloys one and half years back when I bought this Gypsy assuming that I can change it in few months time. Never thought it will take so long for the Gypsy to be ready.

Next task was to identify tyres. Since I had bought the wheels already I did not had much choice. I was trying to get tyres which can be installed on those wheels. Finally after reviewing all the options including indian and foreign brands and comparing it with my usage, cost and durability I decided to got for Yokohoma Geolandar AT/S All Terrain 31"x10.5xR15 tyres

Installation
We started the installation one afternoon. While installing the tyres as expected the rear tyres went in smoothly leaving 4-5 inches on clearance between the tyres and wheel arches/fenders. But unfortunately not the front ones. . It wasnt going in at all.

There were two issues 1) the front bumper was blocking the tyres even from going in and 2) on full turn it was rubbing the innner mudguard aswell. We tried everything possible and then we realised that due to engine weight the front suspension was coming down by an extra inch or two compared to the rear one which we did not consider during the calculation.

So the only option was to go for a shackle lift in the front. It was weeekend and was too late to drive 120 km to my uncles MASS and get it done.

But thank god due the negative offset wheels it was not touching/rubbing the front leaf springs on full turn.

So we removed the front bumper and tried. The clearance increased but the front pipe holding the bumper was still blocking the tyres from going in.. Then we decided to cut the pipes and weld them again at a later time.
after cutting both ends of the front pipe by six inches on both sides the tyres went inside.

We installed the tyres but then new issue came up.The mudguard was rubbing at few places. This was not that difficult as the pipes. Fixed that one by hammering the mudguard slightly inside.

It was raining/drizzling continously during the tyre change and it was fun

Now let the pics talks.































JC

[JeepCaptain]

I took out the Gypsy for a test drive.. Wow.. the drive had changed completely. Suddenly you feel like you are sittng on top of a truck with those massive 31" tyres and 2 inch lift lift. Thats almost 25-30" or 2 and half feet off the ground and all cars , jeeps including stock gypsies appear smaller to you and you have to look down to see them.

These were the test results.

Goods
1) Better visibility on the road and offroad too.
2) Smoother drive - big Yokohoma's riding over the small potholes and not going inside.
3) Wider track gives more confidence while conrnering.
4) Steering is become smoother ( I was expecting the otherway)
5) In 4x4 mode it can climb anything which comes on its way.

Bads
1) Drop in engine power in all gears esp fourth gear.
2) Braking is reduced considerably. Even if you stand on the brake pedal it takes longer to stop. ( Need to go for power assisted brakes now)
3) Tyre noise had increase
4) Need more frequent gear shifts.
5) Tyres rubbibing wheel arches on high articulation. ( Need to check shocks, may be they have become weak or even the leaf springs)

Now Some more pics























Expecting comments and feedback

Shibu

[pdev29]

Shibu,

everything is perfect except your soft top. it should have been like the below then it will look good.

[JeepCaptain]

Originally Posted by pdev29

Shibu,

everything is perfect except your soft top. it should have been like the below then it will look good.

Devang, There is a reason for that design/shape.
I saw ur design and you are right it spoil the looks but that square/box space is for two small bench seats which can accomodate 2 small/medium sized adults or my 2 kiddos. It was there in my white gypsy now planning to do the same for this one.
Basically that shape makes my gypsy a 4 seater
Shibu

[JeepCaptain]

More updates.

With bigger tyres and alloys I defenitely felt the need for a Power Assisted brakes. So the next job was to installed the Brake booster from Gypsy King!

Front bumper also was installed. The lift left a 3 inch grap between the body and front bumper and decided to leave it as it is for the time being.

Later the gypsy was tested on offroad ( mild testing) to check out the ground clearance and the articulation.

Now let the pic talks.





















JC

[Blue Thunder]

Hi, JeepCaptain, Congrats on the excellent restore of this Gypsy !!!

My thoughts...you definitely need an SPOA soon, otherwise, you may not be able to derive maximum advantage of those massive tyres. And the exhaust end-can has to be repositioned to avoid reducing the departure angle.

[headers]

Nice pics and a good job there. Maybe some comparo pics with normal gypsies would make one understand your efforts better!

[JeepCaptain]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

Hi, JeepCaptain, Congrats on the excellent restore of this Gypsy !!!

My thoughts...you definitely need an SPOA soon, otherwise, you may not be able to derive maximum advantage of those massive tyres. And the exhaust end-can has to be repositioned to avoid reducing the departure angle.

BlueThunder, correctly said! yes SPOA is the next item in my wish list followed by diff locks, crawl gears, axle wrap protector.
Planning to follow Khan_sultan, Shahnawaz are you listening?

Followed by winch, snorkel, mud tyres, headers,Free Flow exhaust. and list is unlimited

Originally Posted by headers

Nice pics and a good job there. Maybe some comparo pics with normal gypsies would make one understand your efforts better!

Headers, Thank you!
Thats a good suggestion.Yes I will try to post another pic with stock Gypsy side by side so that everyone can see the difference.