[Torque-ative]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Spike,

What is that extent?

And your statement reflects Mahindra & Mahindra's philosophy, best --

To Some Extent (, not fully though) = HALF MEASURES.

Regards,

Arka

Initially I did think Arka was going heavy and too hard on M&M.

But honestly he is nothing but pushing them to out-do, out-think and out-perform themselves,..and in the end turning out the ultimate off-roader.

On the other hand has'nt the Scorpio too proven its credibility off-road.
Hence,.if the Thar is nothing but a disguised Scorpio,.then is that such a bad thing.

Yes More GC is something I have been harping aways since page 01.
The IFS components are too low,..and this inturn does make it a little of a softroader.

['72 Bullet]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Does a more powerful MM540 exist which is faster than Thar? Who's vehicle is that?
To be fair to Thar at least in this department i don't think there is any MM540 on Forum which is faster than Thar. If you are talking about Arjun rudras vehicle then it almost costed him as much as a new Scorpio! Plus it cannot boast the stability of Thar being a SPOA.

Common guys don't rob Thar of its On-road abilities at-least!

@headers- Your Gypsy is superior and is built over years of hard work.It can do rings around any thing why Thar? (Nice way to kill the controversy no :-P...LOL)

p.s- Now would you pay 6 lakhs plus for a new off roader with compromised off road capabilities and enhanced on road abilities?- Its entirely a personal call!

I was thinking of Arjun Rudra's MM540 and Allan's Gypsy Something similar without SPOA would we nothing short of spectacular.

Further, it needn't cost that much if you get it done yourself. Reliability and good worksmanship can be a problem though.

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Does a more powerful MM540 exist which is faster than Thar? Who's vehicle is that?
To be fair to Thar at least in this department i don't think there is any MM540 on Forum which is faster than Thar. If you are talking about Arjun rudras vehicle then it almost costed him as much as a new Scorpio! Plus it cannot boast the stability of Thar being a SPOA.

Dear Vinod The Thar is not a MM540, it is a Scorpio, feels like a scorpio, runs like a scorpio.

[Samurai]

All said and done, we have to realize that M&M is a huge Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy doesn't let you do whatever you want. Bureaucracy often forces you to make the wrong decision. Bureaucracy can be affected to change only from the very top level and very slowly. So there is no point heckling Behram or Spike.

In other words, we can't get our perfect offroader from M&M. Until specialist companies like Iveco come to India, we are on our own, we gotta build our own perfect offroader.

[headers]

Originally Posted by Samurai

All said and done, we have to realize that M&M is a huge Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy doesn't let you do whatever you want. Bureaucracy often forces you to make the wrong decision. Bureaucracy can be affected to change only from the very top level and very slowly. So there is no point heckling Behram or Spike.

In other words, we can't get our perfect offroader from M&M. Until specialist companies like Iveco come to India, we are on our own, we gotta build our own perfect offroader.

Hey Sharat, I seem to agree with you on this one

However,

I am ready to build my own perfeKt offroad vehicle, but am unable to get the following:

1. Brand new DDiS engine with ECU and Wiring harness

2. A Brand new Scorpio NGT 530 with manual TC and 4wdGB

3. A BRand new Scorpio front differential assembly with the suspension setup!!

Any pointers?

[Sutripta]

Hi Spike,
I've got a few nontechnical questions.

What is the difference in cost (to the manufacturer) between a SF and FF?
Are the various axles manufactured in different locations? Will some people loose their jobs if axles are rationalised?
What type of failures do you see in the SFAs, and what would these percentages be like.
Will changing an axle require rehomologation?

Regards
Sutripta

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

@Sutripta, no point doing post-mortems here,

@Headers why arent you able to source the GB and TC assembly and which scorpio suspension setup are you taking about?

@Samurai, thanks , i am happy that atleast a few people do understand

Spike

[Jaggu]

OT: @header: did you check with MUL if they can get you an engine and wiring?

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear all - I think I can confidently state that whatever I have done to make this vehicle to get born to whatever dress level it is today, I have done with full commitment towards my work. At the centre of this commitment lies my self-driven desire to make newer vehicles for M&M, an organization that has given me so much opportunity to express my "Latent Desires" and demonstrate my "Auto Passion". I believe in doing projects which deliver vehicles that are "BETTER, MORE FUEL EFFICIENT, ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AND CUSTOMER ACCEPTABLE". Thar is just one such project amongst many such projects. This is not the thread to mention all my other projects. You see them on the roads everyday. You love the Thar, that's why you are discussing so much. That's what counts. Therefore, thank you. What more can a product engineer ask for? Let the product speak for itself, relative to what each customer wants out of his purchase.

Therefore, please continue to give your opinions and comments. As this is a very healthy practice, only good shall come out of it, that much I promise you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[jyobeb]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Does a more powerful MM540 exist which is faster than Thar? Who's vehicle is that?
To be fair to Thar at least in this department i don't think there is any MM540 on Forum which is faster than Thar.

Mine is!! 110 bhp, SPOA, NGT530 with BW manual shift, LSD, gas shocks etc. It has cost me an honest 4.75 lakhs!!

[IronWolf]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Dear Vinod The Thar is not a MM540, it is a Scorpio, feels like a scorpio, runs like a scorpio.

... Drives like a Scorpio will get stuck like a Scorpio but Looks like a MM550

Originally Posted by headers

I am ready to build my own perfeKt offroad vehicle, but am unable to get the following:

1. Brand new DDiS engine with ECU and Wiring harness

2. A Brand new Scorpio NGT 530 with manual TC and 4wdGB

3. A BRand new Scorpio front differential assembly with the suspension setup!!

Any pointers?

Vikram, We should just ask MM to sell the NGCS MM550 XDB to the public at an honest 4.5L which is good enough for many of us.

Or a MM550 CRDe for you for 5.5L.

Originally Posted by jyobeb

Mine is!! 110 bhp, SPOA, NGT530 with BW manual shift, LSD, gas shocks etc. It has cost me an honest 4.75 lakhs!!

MM, please hire him asap and develop - the Thar Economy (Branding credits - Vinod N) with a Live Axle, MLD, FFRA.

IFS is for the Look_I_have_an_opentop_Jeep_I'm_a_spud - folks.

If I wanted to get to another city quickly I would just take the bus. Volvo rates are coming down I hear.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by jyobeb

Mine is!! 110 bhp, SPOA, NGT530 with BW manual shift, LSD, gas shocks etc. It has cost me an honest 4.75 lakhs!!

@jyobeb Which engine have you installed in your vehicle?

Spike

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by IronWolf

MM, please hire him asap and develop - the Thar Economy (Branding credits - Vinod N) with a Live Axle, MLD, FFRA.

Not so quick, they'll have to confirm that his Jeep is CMVR and BS4 compliant.

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - I think I can confidently state that whatever I have done to make this vehicle to get born to whatever dress level it is today, I have done with full commitment towards my work. At the centre of this commitment lies my self-driven desire to make newer vehicles for M&M, an organization that has given me so much opportunity to express my "Latent Desires" and demonstrate my "Auto Passion". I believe in doing projects which deliver vehicles that are "BETTER, MORE FUEL EFFICIENT, ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AND CUSTOMER ACCEPTABLE". Thar is just one such project amongst many such projects. This is not the thread to mention all my other projects. You see them on the roads everyday. You love the Thar, that's why you are discussing so much. That's what counts. Therefore, thank you. What more can a product engineer ask for? Let the product speak for itself, relative to what each customer wants out of his purchase.

Therefore, please continue to give your opinions and comments. As this is a very healthy practice, only good shall come out of it, that much I promise you.

Dear DB Sir,

You must be familiar with the saying unfulfilled promises become lies.

We DON'T love the Thar, We Love the MM540, which you have used to deflect the customer base; as the "Thar" is a Scorpio.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1675704-post294.html
I sincerely hope that it does come out as, the spare parts market for the MM540 will be refreshed.

My questions to you still go unanswered.

Which is better SFRA vs FFRA?

The FFRA has a added safety feature, why doesn't M&M add it on all the vehicles.

The 57" SFRA on the scorpio has failed and lives have been lost. Yet you continue to use the same unit (of course it has been rectified ).

Some load carrying vehicles are fitted with SFRA some with FFRA, with all the overloading, you still don't feel the need.

It is not a matter of price, or production cost here, or delay it is a matter of principle - Safety Does not Matter to You or M&M.

1) You have fitted a R&P steering on an off-road vehicle .
It cannot be changed since its a scorpio design.

2) You cannot give factory fitted roll-cages. And you go on and on about its Road speed,Acceleration; you are an experienced driver (Test Driver) what about a normal guy, who just understands pedal-to-metal.

3) FFRA - The simple fact that in case the axle breaks the wheel does not come out is enough reason. That happens to be the Rear Axle/Drive Axle, with a considerably torquey diesel engine.

But like you famously quoted on one of the FIAT threads, "the customer has become a statistic.

We expected something more from a man of your stature and experience.

Regards,

Arka

['72 Bullet]

Originally Posted by Samurai

All said and done, we have to realize that M&M is a huge Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy doesn't let you do whatever you want. Bureaucracy often forces you to make the wrong decision. Bureaucracy can be affected to change only from the very top level and very slowly. So there is no point heckling Behram or Spike.

In other words, we can't get our perfect offroader from M&M. Until specialist companies like Iveco come to India, we are on our own, we gotta build our own perfect offroader.

Couldn't agree with you more Samurai san.

The only thing I'd like to add to this is that fellow-Bhpians should call it as it is, and not make it (Thar) out to be something that it is not.

Sorry, but I'm a little sceptical about how it's going to perform off-road. I am hoping that it proves me wrong and turns out to be a real mountain-goat though.