Which 4x4 should I buy : Thinking out aloud. EDIT : Finalised on a white Gypsy!

ladak.imran · 5th May 2010, 13:29

Maybe if you add an extra leaf in the front, it will help a bit..
Right?!

Desmosedici · 5th May 2010, 15:15

But will adding of extra Leaf or increasing the leaf thickness result in a stiffer and more bumpy ride? sorry for stupid Qs.

khan_sultan · 5th May 2010, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmosedici

In that case Khan, how can we reinforce the front leafs since the car does take a beating at every OTR. You must have definitely done something about it. Can we add add thicker leafs, will that affect the handling in any way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

Maybe if you add an extra leaf in the front, it will help a bit..
Right?!

Yes, that's one option. Lots of folks in Bangalore have 1 extra leaf in the front. Another option is to use the longer springs from the rear upfront.. but then that has quite a bit of fabrication involved..
Here is what I am doing in my Gypsy for the front:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ification.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmosedici

But will adding of extra Leaf or increasing the leaf thickness result in a stiffer and more bumpy ride? sorry for stupid Qs.

Yes, it does lead to bumpy ride. But then you would prefer a bumpy ride over broken leaf in an OTR. Right?

ladak.imran · 6th May 2010, 01:32

Hmmm..
Btw, if you add an extra pair in the front, then you're changing the front:back weight distribution - could this translate to loss of traction for the front wheels (while steering) at higher speeds , on a straight road?

Or is the difference negligible?
I'm sure the extra pair at the back will do 'wonders' for the ride, and our backs!

gsferrari · 6th May 2010, 20:57

Ok so Sai Svc is not supporting my warranty claim because they claim that the suspension was damaged due to off-road use and the warranty only covers on-road use. Time to ring Mukesh Kalmadi...

My advice to anyone planning to buy a new vehicle and take it off-road - DON'T - it is not worth the premium. Buy a banger and then you won't have to deal with this.

Desmosedici · 7th May 2010, 00:08

So GS, dont tell me that you are going to keep your 'Geoff' ON ROAD.

gsferrari · 7th May 2010, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmosedici

So GS, dont tell me that you are going to keep your 'Geoff' ON ROAD.

The thought never crossed my mind!

Getting it sorted outside MASS for far less money and time today. Adding an extra leaf up front and awaiting information about the next OTR.

Raj - you HAVE to start attending OTRs dude...

jaysmokesleaves · 7th May 2010, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Ok so Sai Svc is not supporting my warranty claim because they claim that the suspension was damaged due to off-road use and the warranty only covers on-road use. Time to ring Mukesh Kalmadi...

My advice to anyone planning to buy a new vehicle and take it off-road - DON'T - it is not worth the premium. Buy a banger and then you won't have to deal with this.

Dude, my advice to you is never to discuss your offroad escapades with the Service guys. It will only help them to find an excuse to not honor your warranty.
The best thing to tell them is about your trip to a farmhouse.

Besides, im sure it does'nt state anywhere that a 4wd is not for offroad use. Infact using the 4wd onroad will destroy your differentials. So, ask them where should you use 4x4 if not off road ?

My basic experience of using different vehicles(custom offroad and 4x4 suv's) over the years for offroad use in India and elsewhere leads me to believe that, however well your vehicle may be built, it will suffer damage if used harshly in harsh terrain.

While I am not qualified to instruct, I have noticed on many OTR's, folks get carried away with enthusiasm and group pressure to try stuff or do stuff in a way that will most definitely cause some damage. Without restricting the fun, a balance ought to be sought inorder to do as less/no damage to your vehicle. And that is purely ones personal call. With the experience piling on, one will be able to perform the same obstacle more efficiently.

But again, on an OTR nothing can be predicted. You probable benifit of taking a new vehicle on an OTR is lesser scope of mechanical failures or brakedowns compared to a 15yr old example.

Cheers,

Jay

BTW; whens the next otr.. Pm me if something coming up in the next 3 weekends.

Tejas@perioimpl · 7th May 2010, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Dude, my advice to you is never to discuss your offroad escapades with the Service guys. It will only help them to find an excuse to not honor your warranty.
The best thing to tell them is about your trip to a farmhouse.

I completely agree with you. Infact i was just going to say the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

My advice to anyone planning to buy a new vehicle and take it off-road - DON'T - it is not worth the premium. Buy a banger and then you won't have to deal with this.

This i don't agree. Yes, during an OTR damages will happen, but you are still mechanically more sound than the others and will definitely have lesser garage trips.

gsferrari · 7th May 2010, 22:13

Ok guys...

So they've sorted out the gearbox issue under warranty - yay! Replaced the clutch fork and plates as a precaution.

They have also decided to replace the front leafs both R and L side. This is not under warranty but the parts cost is only Rs.1000. They are giving me a labour estimate in the morning.

I should be up and running by tomorrow EoD. Will add an extra leaf to the front outside MASS because they aren't ready to do any modifications.

khan_sultan · 8th May 2010, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

...
They have also decided to replace the front leafs both R and L side. ...

.... Will add an extra leaf to the front outside MASS because they aren't ready to do any modifications.

Use the bottom leaf from the existing leaf, shorten it (if required) and add it to the bottom of the new set of leafs.

gsferrari · 9th May 2010, 08:59

Gypsy is ready. They have fixed the FR and FL leafsprings and aligned the suspension assy. I also had them do a wheel alignment and check all wheels for the balancing weights. Weights were missing from FL, FR and RL wheels!!! Got the balancing done as well.

Total cost to me - Rs.1800.00

Pretty happy that it didn't go beyond 2k for what I believe is a service schedule I look to repeat after every 2-3 OTRs.

Guys - check your wheel weights because they get knocked out during OTRs and can ruin the whole driving experience once you get back on the road.

Missed a night OTR :( terribly disappointed...but I'm rearing to go for the next one! Bring on the rains.

jaysmokesleaves · 9th May 2010, 09:54

GSF > Do you find any real noticable difference in your gypsy's handling pre and post wheel balancing..?

Why I ask is that ive noticed that many times we do wheel balancing with absolutely no noticable difference in the handling, unless you have a wobbly steering issue, etc.
But otherwise I think wheel balancing is a mini scam.
At 43+k kms my Safari has seen a lot more wheel bashing off and on the road than your relatively new gypsy. Till date ive done 3 wheel alignments and NO balancing since it came from the factory. Ive not felt any difference in handling at high speeds on the highways, nor have I faced any issues of uneven tire wear.
Everytime I went for wheel alignment they did try their level best to get me to do wheel balancing too, to which i have always politely refused.
Now I shall be doing wheel balancing for the first time on Tue when my Safari gets a new set of shoes.

SO I come to my point again ; How does one decide that the wheels require balancing ?
If the old weights fell off and I still dont have any tire wear issues nor handling issues then why bother balancing the wheels ?

Edit; Because if your wheel balance is really out, then you will definitely feel it through your suspension and /or steering wobble. Thats what my reasoning says. Might be wrong, but I look forward to more views on the same.

gsferrari · 9th May 2010, 23:54

@Jay - wheel balancing makes a lot of sense especially at high speeds as it puts less stress on critical bearings/joints and makes for a smoother ride. On my MT01 I noticed the difference in handling when one of the weights fell off and the vibes became noticeable. The Gypsy ride is pretty bumpy anyway so it is possible to dismiss unusual vibes.

Post alignment and balancing AND the repair work, the vehicle is a dream to drive. The steering suddenly feels so much freer than it ever did in the past.

Also found that my bill was Rs.1040 all inclusive. This is parts, labor and wheel balancing/alignment all done.

Work carried out:
1. Tightening of all fasteners
2. Front Left leaf spring replacement
3. Clutch pressure plates and release bearing replacement
4. Lubrication of doors/joints and leaf springs
5. Wheel balancing and alignment (only FL and FR balancing was required)

Not bad at all!!!

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 10th May 2010, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Work carried out:
3. Clutch pressure plates and release bearing replacement
Not bad at all!!!

Are you sure your pressure plates and release bearing were replaced during the service, if yes then how come it costs only Rs 1040?

Spike

5th May 2010, 13:29	#241
ladak.imran BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bombay Posts: 294 Thanked: 6 Times	Maybe if you add an extra leaf in the front, it will help a bit.. Right?!
	() Thanks

5th May 2010, 15:15	#242
Desmosedici Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: White Village Posts: 1,484 Thanked: 586 Times View My Garage	But will adding of extra Leaf or increasing the leaf thickness result in a stiffer and more bumpy ride? sorry for stupid Qs.
	() Thanks

6th May 2010, 01:32	#244
ladak.imran BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bombay Posts: 294 Thanked: 6 Times	Hmmm.. Btw, if you add an extra pair in the front, then you're changing the front:back weight distribution - could this translate to loss of traction for the front wheels (while steering) at higher speeds , on a straight road? Or is the difference negligible? I'm sure the extra pair at the back will do 'wonders' for the ride, and our backs!
	() Thanks

6th May 2010, 20:57	#245
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,807 Times	Ok so Sai Svc is not supporting my warranty claim because they claim that the suspension was damaged due to off-road use and the warranty only covers on-road use. Time to ring Mukesh Kalmadi... My advice to anyone planning to buy a new vehicle and take it off-road - DON'T - it is not worth the premium. Buy a banger and then you won't have to deal with this.
	() Thanks

7th May 2010, 00:08	#246
Desmosedici Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: White Village Posts: 1,484 Thanked: 586 Times View My Garage	So GS, dont tell me that you are going to keep your 'Geoff' ON ROAD.
	() Thanks

7th May 2010, 22:13	#250
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,807 Times	Ok guys... So they've sorted out the gearbox issue under warranty - yay! Replaced the clutch fork and plates as a precaution. They have also decided to replace the front leafs both R and L side. This is not under warranty but the parts cost is only Rs.1000. They are giving me a labour estimate in the morning. I should be up and running by tomorrow EoD. Will add an extra leaf to the front outside MASS because they aren't ready to do any modifications.
	() Thanks

9th May 2010, 08:59	#252
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,807 Times	Gypsy is ready. They have fixed the FR and FL leafsprings and aligned the suspension assy. I also had them do a wheel alignment and check all wheels for the balancing weights. Weights were missing from FL, FR and RL wheels!!! Got the balancing done as well. Total cost to me - Rs.1800.00 Pretty happy that it didn't go beyond 2k for what I believe is a service schedule I look to repeat after every 2-3 OTRs. Guys - check your wheel weights because they get knocked out during OTRs and can ruin the whole driving experience once you get back on the road. Missed a night OTR :( terribly disappointed...but I'm rearing to go for the next one! Bring on the rains.
	() Thanks

9th May 2010, 09:54	#253
jaysmokesleaves Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mostly Mumbai Posts: 1,702 Thanked: 1,452 Times	GSF > Do you find any real noticable difference in your gypsy's handling pre and post wheel balancing..? Why I ask is that ive noticed that many times we do wheel balancing with absolutely no noticable difference in the handling, unless you have a wobbly steering issue, etc. But otherwise I think wheel balancing is a mini scam. At 43+k kms my Safari has seen a lot more wheel bashing off and on the road than your relatively new gypsy. Till date ive done 3 wheel alignments and NO balancing since it came from the factory. Ive not felt any difference in handling at high speeds on the highways, nor have I faced any issues of uneven tire wear. Everytime I went for wheel alignment they did try their level best to get me to do wheel balancing too, to which i have always politely refused. Now I shall be doing wheel balancing for the first time on Tue when my Safari gets a new set of shoes. SO I come to my point again ; How does one decide that the wheels require balancing ? If the old weights fell off and I still dont have any tire wear issues nor handling issues then why bother balancing the wheels ? Edit; Because if your wheel balance is really out, then you will definitely feel it through your suspension and /or steering wobble. Thats what my reasoning says. Might be wrong, but I look forward to more views on the same. Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 9th May 2010 at 09:57.
	() Thanks

9th May 2010, 23:54	#254
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,807 Times	@Jay - wheel balancing makes a lot of sense especially at high speeds as it puts less stress on critical bearings/joints and makes for a smoother ride. On my MT01 I noticed the difference in handling when one of the weights fell off and the vibes became noticeable. The Gypsy ride is pretty bumpy anyway so it is possible to dismiss unusual vibes. Post alignment and balancing AND the repair work, the vehicle is a dream to drive. The steering suddenly feels so much freer than it ever did in the past. Also found that my bill was Rs.1040 all inclusive. This is parts, labor and wheel balancing/alignment all done. Work carried out: 1. Tightening of all fasteners 2. Front Left leaf spring replacement 3. Clutch pressure plates and release bearing replacement 4. Lubrication of doors/joints and leaf springs 5. Wheel balancing and alignment (only FL and FR balancing was required) Not bad at all!!!
	() Thanks