[hisunil]

What’s the best Off-roader I can afford sub 1KK (10L) INR

Well I have been “mucking around my head” for almost a year or more now and cannot decide what is the right thing to do !!!
Hence writing this, hoping like minded people with better experience can advice on what is the best thing to do.

Myself:
I am Sunil Kumar Born & brought up in Bangalore, Live in R T Nagar, aged about 33 & currently work for AMD
Married for the last 9 years and have a 4 year old kid.
Own a 1995 Yezdi 175 deluxe II, 2005 GT-250, EKO Electric, Hero Cycle & a 2002 Dawoo Matiz SG.

I have narrowed down to 3 Options:

1. The Infamous Trax Gurkha

• + Tubular Ladder Chaise
• + decent Low end torque 195 Nm @ 1800 -2000 rpm
• + Selectable Diff Lock both front & rear
• + Power Steering + Air Conditioner
• + Over engineered parts that can take some beating
• + Factory fit snorkel
• + Good Front independent suspensions
• + Lovely view of road from cabin / driver seat.
• + Exclusivity

• - 75 HP @ 3200 rpm is LOW considering GVW of 2510 KG
• - OM 611 could be launched (only god knows when)
• - wait period & initial refinement period (I can manage)

2. New Gypsy

• + Peace of mind
• + good power to weight ratio
• + Cheap spares
• + Lots of company
• + refinement & Smoothness
• + Looks

• - Needs lots of modification like PS, AC, Clawer gear, Diff locks, roll cage, snorkel, SPOA etc
• - Relatively not so strong or over engineered parts.
• - Find a competent mechanic and spend quality time with him to install all above upgrades
• - Source all material (that are ridiculously expensive here) from overseas & deal with customs or shipment !

3. Custom Extreme Off-roader
Inspired by Jeep Hurricane let me explain this a little more about what I mean.

• Use a second hand Gypsy or Trax body with a regular engine.
• Replace the rear axle & wheel with a 2nd engine, gearbox (both 5 speed & 4x4) and the front wheel Differential assembly of exactly same kind.
• Two Completely independent engine or bimotor setup that is not linked in any way to start with.

Hold on hold on before you guys will bash & trash up calling this a psychopathic idea, please read a little more & I am open to criticism.

• Setup:

o Let’s call the front engine as M1 & the rear as M2 respectively
o label 5 speed gearbox of front as G1 & rear G2,
o 4x4 gear box of front as 4G1 & 4G2 respectively.
o Link G1 & G2 mechanically so one liver can shift both of them
o Couple both Clutch and accelerator of M1 & M2
o Bring the 4G2's liver closer to that of 4G1 but do not link them

• Use model:

o On road:

• Keep 4G2 in neutral, 4G1 in 4H Turn ON only M1
• It’s a front wheel drive vehicle with an extra load (carrying M2 engine with G2 ).

o Off Road:

• Keep both 4G1 & 4G2 in the same mode (either 4h or 4L) turn on both M1 & M2
• Now it’s a bi-motor and off roader in mud / slur etc
• Typical issues of bimotor listed below are not applicable while off roading (as far as I know Clarification Needed Here)
• Wheel Spin, torque distribution, Firing angle / timing alignment etc, what matters Is Torque & we will have lots of it

o Further Upgrades:

• 35" Tyres, Crawler gear for both the gearboxes, Selectable Diff locks for both (Front) Differentials, coil over spring lift & replace leaf springs, replace M1 & M2 with 1.6L balino or 2.4L Vitara engine plus all the mods mentioned above for the regular gypsy.

• If All goes well the end Result will be:

• + Extremely torque
• + One of a kind Unique machine
• + Satisfaction of trying something that baked in my head
• + Extreme Off roader

• - unknown untested domain
• -reliability & safety could be a concern
• - Fuel consumption ( I don’t care)
• - Competent mechanic & garage to do the job
• - “Aaa bail tu mujha Maar” ( I know I am asking for all sorts of trouble)

• Home work that I have done thus far in this regard:

o HowStuffWorks "How Differentials Work"
o HowStuffWorks "How Manual Transmissions Work"
o HowStuffWorks "How Automatic Transmissions Work"
o HowStuffWorks "Why is torque important in off-roading?"
o HowStuffWorks "Introduction to Off-Roading"
o HowStuffWorks "Limited Slip Differentials "
o HowStuffWorks "How Torque Converters Work"
o HowStuffWorks "How Four-Wheel Drive Works"
o HowStuffWorks "How Car Suspensions Work"

o TwoToGo-page three
o DriversFound.com: BiMotor Sciroccos
o Cybersteering.com - Feature - Automatic Karma
o http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...2-engines.html
o Suzuki Samurai Info Sheet and FAQ (SamFAQ) - Trucks 4x4 @ Off-Road.com

o Non English Needs Google translation
o Daten vom Rallye Golf
o Home

• Some pics:

• http://www.toshistation.com/comiccon...s/IMG_7981.JPG
• http://image.motortrend.com/f/afterm...to-audi-tt.jpg
• http://metacool.typepad.com/metacool/images/4car6.jpg
• http://www.evo.co.uk/images/front_pi...to_18294_7.jpg
• http://www.oldsmobility.com/images/t...d_skeleton.jpg
• TT Veículo bimotor - Montemor-o-Velho - Carros - bimotor tt
• http://golfstory.free.fr/photos/phot...ikespeak10.jpg
• http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif

• One Such build Story:

o VWvortex Forums: Twin 24V Lupo

• Video:

o

YouTube - Tiger Z100

• Just for Gags

o http://www.tomax7.com/thoughts/vw-image/beetlea16.jpg
o http://www.tomax7.com/thoughts/vw-image/beetle5.jpg

Cheers
Sunil

[jkdas]

All in 10lac? And do you have any garage/tuner in mind?

[hisunil]

I have spoken to Mr govindraj from Srinivasa Garage near TTD Malleshwaram Bangalore, but he wasn't confident enough, but he is genuine trustworthy but very very slow.

Have heard good things about Team Cart, need to check with them.

Cheers
Sunil

[shishir_bn]

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further.

[KSM-Vtec]

Just buy a new gypsy and mod it as per requirement.

[Jaggu]

If you are doubling your budget then go the mod way, coz eventually by the time you get your dream set up close to reliable, you would have spent so much or even more, on the build and bribing RTO to get it road worthy.

Otherwise get a Gurkha or Gypsy, spent another lakh or two and live happily ever-after in the jungle.

[hisunil]

Himmm, guys 10L constrain is the initial investment That I can make right now (as an other 10L personnel loan is ending ) Was planning to go in for an other 10L loan as the EMI & monthly expense will be same, but can add in say about 15 to 20K every month for upgrades unless my wife releases whats happening & curbs it!
Lets keep 10L as a starter and slow steady upgrades from then on.

Please shed more light on possibility of the bimotor idea, especially the way I have mentioned the setup part.

Also clarify the assumption of ignoring all typical bimotor issues from a offroading standpoint.

I did test drive a Gurkha last month, was put down after I drove a Scorpio mHawk back to back, you can feel the difference in BHP & Torque, if only the Gurkha was available in OM 611 or was not going to be available in OM 611 this thread will not be up & running, since its going to be some time, Iam hesitant to buy the current model.

OT: My Brother bought a 1996 Navy Gypsy MG410w, that spent a month in the workshop, will start a different thread on the same.

Cheers
Sunil

[Parm]

i think you have to come the right place to get advice about your 'idea' for the right kind of 4WD vehicle with decent amount of money....TBhp!

so listen to the advice of the TBhpians and do yourself a favour by buying a BRAND NEW vehicle (>>>Gypsy) and spend another 2L on it according to your taste and requirments/needs!

as jaggu says "..and live happily ever-after in the jungle"

[Nilesh5417]

@sunil - Looks like the comet projects arent giving you enough highs these days so you turn up on T-Bhp!

There will always be resistance to something untried. When you get nothing, you get experience. And there are lots of them here, including those who are advising you against the bi-motor, who have a lot of experience today by having a lot of nothing on their hands umpteen times!

So your call. If its your pet project and you have the dough, time and willingness to see both go down the drain, go ahead and try the bi-motor.

If its only dough & time that you have, go get a gypsy or wait for a Thar or get what ever is available and tinker. No need to quote jaggu again since you know it by now.

This is my advice after knowing you on xBhp. But you will definitely get a hell lot more technical advice here than mine. So you are at the right place to get all the info to make up you mind.

[hisunil]

Well Param,

I provably would have decided on the Gypsy if I actually got to test drive the MG413W MPFI model, which I haven't yet.

Especially after seeing (not litrally more like in pics) Arjun's Black monster here on Tbhp
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ster-zuki.html
I am liking it even more.

Also their is news of suzuki jimny being launched by Oct 2010 time frame (not able to find the news / resource link now) is adding to the confusion.

Cheers
Sunil

[Jaggu]

Sunil project on paper (sounds interesting to me) and in reality are totally different things, in India atleast! I dont think anybody has all the expertise needed to get your project running, in this country.

More feasible route is something like what Arjun did through Allen, a decent MM550 with a blistering turbo charged engine. This will sit inside your 10L budget also. Mind you financing will be an issue here, so either a personal loan or hard cash will be required.

Please note that nobody is going to give you an EMI option for your R&D project.

If you are ok to look at it as a hobby project and dont mind working on it for couple of years, then setting it up further over the next few years go for it.

Otherwise just buy a brand new vehicle!

[hisunil]

@Nilesh nice to hear from you after a couple of years!!! Thanks for the Advise.
Yes you are right Spirit is all set & now I am looking at 4x4's as cannot tour on the GT 250 with Family.

Jaggu you are right,

and Thank you for the genuine advice, has NOBODY tried actually building a bimotor in our forum to get some real life experience?

Yes its any day good choice to go in for a New vehicle & have peace of mind, but I want to do stuff like this:

YouTube - Extreme 4X4 VIII

Cheers
Sunil

[Jaggu]

Appreciate that you take the comments, the right way

I havent heard of any bimotor set up running vehicle from India. Maybe somebody would have tried it as a engineering project, but not working daily runners. This project is a complicated ground up work, and require very good engineering skills at design as well as implementation side. Thats the worry part for me.

To do stuff/stunts like that (video is not available but i get the point), you have far simpler approach. A fully blown offroad build, thats all it takes. This can be done slow and steady, one mod at a time, so that reliability is also not compromised.

Look at Khan's spidey, she is getting there slow and steady and is more reliable than many of the vehicles that come for OTR's.

[Ashley Nair]

Replace the rear axle & wheel with a 2nd engine, gearbox (both 5 speed & 4x4) and the front wheel Differential assembly of exactly same kind.
• Two Completely independent engine or bimotor setup that is not linked in any way to start with.

Your idea , at the least, could only be called "MONSTROUS", but it is extremely novel and exhilerating at the same time.

[hisunil]

@ Jaggu,

Without the BHP or Torque how can I do stuff like that? any V8 or V6 with 300+hp & 400+ Nm of torque will probable justify such an offroader, but none are available in that class, I did check and found Only Volvo (Bus/truck) 5.7 Liter & Merc engines have such a Twist, Please tell me if I am missing some thing, Also do watch the video I just love it.

@ Ashley

Thanks mate, People in other parts of the world have done such stuff & moved on to V10 & V12 engines who would call this 1.3L or 2.4L Bimotor a Lilliput also check the HowStuffWorks "How the Jeep Hurricane Works"
That looks like a real monster to me.

Cheers
Sunil