Thar she blows !!

tsk1979 · 8th July 2010, 13:49

Okay, since nobody knows the FE of thar on highway, lets get back to off road question.
Where is the ECU located? Is it in the engine bay?
If so, will having the snorkel help. for example lets say vehicle fitted with a snorkel and engine bay submerged. Will the vehicle keep moving, or some electrical short circuits can occur.
I understand a Common rail engine has electronics everywhere.
In such scenarios, what is the fording capability of Thar with and without snorkel? Please note that I assume that the driver has enough sense to keep rpm high so that water does not enter thorough exhaust.

Tejas@perioimpl · 8th July 2010, 14:03

I'm only scared about one thing. All the talk about FE shouldn't prompt mahindra to optimize the vehicle for FE at the cost of performance.

tsk1979 · 8th July 2010, 14:15

What do you mean "should not prompt mahindra". Thar is already optimized for FE(105bhp map).

MileCruncher · 8th July 2010, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Okay, since nobody knows the FE of thar on highway, lets get back to off road question.
Where is the ECU located? Is it in the engine bay?
If so, will having the snorkel help. for example lets say vehicle fitted with a snorkel and engine bay submerged. Will the vehicle keep moving, or some electrical short circuits can occur.
I understand a Common rail engine has electronics everywhere.
In such scenarios, what is the fording capability of Thar with and without snorkel? Please note that I assume that the driver has enough sense to keep rpm high so that water does not enter thorough exhaust.

The ECU in Bolero is located under the dashboard and I think its the same arrangement in THAR as well.

As regards to FE, official figures will be out once ARAI / VRDE certification is complete. But I expect it to give about 12KMPL on the highway. Well atleast thats what my STORM does with 97BHP, 140 KMPH stints and 100% AC. Xylo's are also supposed to give around that much.

Tejas@perioimpl · 8th July 2010, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

What do you mean "should not prompt mahindra". Thar is already optimized for FE(105bhp map).

Since final specs are not yet out, mahindra can still change the map na?

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th July 2010, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

The ECU in Bolero is located under the dashboard and I think its the same arrangement in THAR as well.

Smarty, you are spot on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

I'm only scared about one thing. All the talk about FE shouldn't prompt mahindra to optimize the vehicle for FE at the cost of performance.

We are trying to strike a balance with FE and Power delivery for Thar, keeping within safe margins from the emission band.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Okay, since nobody knows the FE of thar on highway, lets get back to off road question.

I understand a Common rail engine has electronics everywhere.
In such scenarios, what is the fording capability of Thar with and without snorkel? Please note that I assume that the driver has enough sense to keep rpm high so that water does not enter thorough exhaust.

I am pretty sure on what FE can be expected (City with traffic/without traffic, General Highway, Expressway, all these with full payload and without payload). Can't quote figures on the forum due to obvious reasons.

Yes there are lots of sensors around. One among them is the TDC position sensor which is mounted on the bell housing close to the front propeller shaft area. Generally, this is the lowest position of sensor in a CRDe engine (for an ABS vehicle it can be a Wheel speed sensor). I don't think it is a cause for worry. Tanveer, now don't ask me how the rain sensing wipers work then

. Hope this answers your questions.

Spike

PS- Anirudha, your Storm comes with a 97 BHP engine running on 15" tires and a 3.73 axle ratio.

Tejas@perioimpl · 8th July 2010, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

PS- Anirudha, your Storm comes with a 97 BHP engine running on 15" tires and a 3.73 axle ratio.

Spikey, i missed a point somewhere. Please re-enlighten me: what's the ratio of the Thar? 4.88?

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th July 2010, 15:55

It is 4.3, as of now 4.88 is being used in only one model:- Bolero with XD3P engine.

Spike

Tejas@perioimpl · 8th July 2010, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

It is 4.3, as of now 4.88 is being used in only one model:- Bolero with XD3P engine.

Spike

Oh ho spikey! 4.3 why? Emission norms or for FE? If i fit 31" tyres to it, it'll for all practical purposes land by with 3.73 ratio!

Why is Mahindra down shifting the ratios as they develop vehicles? The CJ340 came with 5.38, then the CL340 and MMs came with 4.88 and now 4.3 for the Thar.

tsk1979 · 8th July 2010, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Yes there are lots of sensors around. One among them is the TDC position sensor which is mounted on the bell housing close to the front propeller shaft area. Generally, this is the lowest position of sensor in a CRDe engine (for an ABS vehicle it can be a Wheel speed sensor). I don't think it is a cause for worry. Tanveer, now don't ask me how the rain sensing wipers work then

. Hope this answers your questions.

Well sort off. So you are saying as long as I do not get water in the air intake in the stock non snorkel thar, I should be fine doing water fording(2-3 feet max I think). Right?
Please understand I ask all these questions, because I am looking at the Thar from a touring standpoint, not OTR standpoint!
All discussion has been from a OTR standpoint!

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th July 2010, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Oh ho spikey! 4.3 why? Emission norms or for FE? If i fit 31" tyres to it, it'll for all practical purposes land by with 3.73 ratio!

Why is Mahindra down shifting the ratios as they develop vehicles? The CJ340 came with 5.38, then the CL340 and MMs came with 4.88 and now 4.3 for the Thar.

Yes, pretty much to do with FE, NVH and Emissions. We have two bands of customers:- 1. Who want raw power, FE is not an issue. For them 4.88 is a good option. 2. On the other hand we have tourers e.g. Tanveer who want decent FE and power, for them 3.73/4.1 would have been fine. As you have guessed by now we cannot satisfy these tolerance bands hence the ratio 4.3

If you fit a 31" tyre the effective ratio will become 4.022. Downshifting of ratios also has relation to the nature of engines currently in use. If you have a engine developing avg/low power you try and utilize the ratios to achieve a better result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Well sort off. So you are saying as long as I do not get water in the air intake in the stock non snorkel thar, I should be fine doing water fording(2-3 feet max I think). Right?
Please understand I ask all these questions, because I am looking at the Thar from a touring standpoint, not OTR standpoint!
All discussion has been from a OTR standpoint!

Tanveer, your queries are genuine. ^^ is pretty much OK.

Spike

Blue Thunder · 8th July 2010, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Oh ho spikey! 4.3 why? ...Why is Mahindra down shifting the ratios as they develop vehicles? ...

I guess it must be due to CMVR.

EDIT : I see SPIKE ARRESTOR has answered it already.

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th July 2010, 18:01

@BT that does not mean it is an excuse (as mentioned in your last edited post), every manufacturer has to comply with these laws. To stand inside the gates of M&M is a privilege, not many people have that. For an outsider, making guesses standing outside the gates is a much simpler job.

Also it is a proud feeling witnessing the development of a vehicle right from the first mechanical prototype to the ones rolling out from the Assembly line (in my Thar team I along with DB Sir are the only people who have seen all this). At an age of 23 what more could I ask for? You may call that as an excuse, but then you never get to see the other side of the forest standing outside the M&M gate, isn't it?

SPIKE ARRESTOR

PS- I have said this earlier too, the feeling of seeing a vehicle (the one you have worked for) on the roads is DIVINE, not many in a lifetime get this opportunity

Blue Thunder · 8th July 2010, 18:33

^^^That post was in a lighter vein...I guess you missed the smiley in the post title.

I did not mean to say it was an excuse.

I fully agree with what you say. I know the kind of elation I experienced when I underwent in-plant training at AL factory in Chennai. It was quite a revelation to see all those huge machines, and the bus/lorry chassis in different stages of manufacture. And I was just on observation-training. I can understand how it would feel to be part of that process itself.

Now, where is that waving-the-white-flag smiley ? Drat...dont find it ...so got to do with this

.

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 11th July 2010, 16:14

Dear all - Pure air to breathe is good for all, isn't it? OK, the air shall remain pure. The trees shall grow by a huge margin. The flowers shall bloom in all their finery, even in all major cities.

. You will love these photographs.

Samajhnewalon ko ishara kaafi hota hai. The slog overs are very slowy but surely delivering the desired results.

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

8th July 2010, 13:49	#736
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Okay, since nobody knows the FE of thar on highway, lets get back to off road question. Where is the ECU located? Is it in the engine bay? If so, will having the snorkel help. for example lets say vehicle fitted with a snorkel and engine bay submerged. Will the vehicle keep moving, or some electrical short circuits can occur. I understand a Common rail engine has electronics everywhere. In such scenarios, what is the fording capability of Thar with and without snorkel? Please note that I assume that the driver has enough sense to keep rpm high so that water does not enter thorough exhaust.
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 14:03	#737
Tejas@perioimpl Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 4,423 Thanked: 9,581 Times View My Garage	I'm only scared about one thing. All the talk about FE shouldn't prompt mahindra to optimize the vehicle for FE at the cost of performance.
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 14:15	#738
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	What do you mean "should not prompt mahindra". Thar is already optimized for FE(105bhp map).
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 15:55	#743
SPIKE ARRESTOR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,854 Thanked: 1,532 Times	It is 4.3, as of now 4.88 is being used in only one model:- Bolero with XD3P engine. Spike
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 18:01	#748
SPIKE ARRESTOR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,854 Thanked: 1,532 Times	@BT that does not mean it is an excuse (as mentioned in your last edited post), every manufacturer has to comply with these laws. To stand inside the gates of M&M is a privilege, not many people have that. For an outsider, making guesses standing outside the gates is a much simpler job. Also it is a proud feeling witnessing the development of a vehicle right from the first mechanical prototype to the ones rolling out from the Assembly line (in my Thar team I along with DB Sir are the only people who have seen all this). At an age of 23 what more could I ask for? You may call that as an excuse, but then you never get to see the other side of the forest standing outside the M&M gate, isn't it? SPIKE ARRESTOR PS- I have said this earlier too, the feeling of seeing a vehicle (the one you have worked for) on the roads is DIVINE, not many in a lifetime get this opportunity
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 18:33	#749
Blue Thunder Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Right here . Posts: 1,657 Thanked: 386 Times View My Garage	^^^That post was in a lighter vein...I guess you missed the smiley in the post title. I did not mean to say it was an excuse. I fully agree with what you say. I know the kind of elation I experienced when I underwent in-plant training at AL factory in Chennai. It was quite a revelation to see all those huge machines, and the bus/lorry chassis in different stages of manufacture. And I was just on observation-training. I can understand how it would feel to be part of that process itself. Now, where is that waving-the-white-flag smiley ? Drat...dont find it ...so got to do with this .
	() Thanks

11th July 2010, 16:14	#750
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	Dear all - Pure air to breathe is good for all, isn't it? OK, the air shall remain pure. The trees shall grow by a huge margin. The flowers shall bloom in all their finery, even in all major cities. . You will love these photographs. Samajhnewalon ko ishara kaafi hota hai. The slog overs are very slowy but surely delivering the desired results. . Best regards, Behram Dhabhar Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks