[SS-Traveller]

Dr. Ghosh, in case you come across a Forward Control (FC) Jeep, I would think that would fit your requirements perfectly. I am sure members on this forum can help you find one quickly, at rock-bottom prices. And even if you find a 2WD version, converting it to 4WD should not pose a major challenge.

[fazalaliadil]

Interesting, the way the tigress is crouching and sneaking up from behind the vehicle in 1st pic.

3rd pic. Just love the way she is sneaking up from the side, her body almost touching the Gypsy....SOUNDLESSLY, imagine the reaction of the beautiful lady and her smile when she saw the tigress so suddenly, this close.

All including the tracker, driver are totally oblivious to her (tigress) presence so close by.

[Anupam]

Hello Abheek and Gents

do you think a Trax Gurkha 4WD engine on a Trax Cruiser Chassis would give the right ground to build the Safari Vehicle on, btw your pictures took me back to my days in Nairobi, where such vehicles are a common sight

in addition, I have a mx friend here in Pune who makes campers and trailors as his hobby, he may have some interesting ideas and would be happy to execute it for you as well

[abheekg]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

If 2wd will do. Why not TATA spacio open top.

By spacio open top do you mean this vehicle ?

I have hardly see this on India roads or does it come in a different avatar ?
Any pointers where should I look at to procure one of these ?

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Dr. Ghosh, in case you come across a Forward Control (FC) Jeep, I would think that would fit your requirements perfectly. I am sure members on this forum can help you find one quickly, at rock-bottom prices. And even if you find a 2WD version, converting it to 4WD should not pose a major challenge.

I had considered buying this vehicle once in the past if all of you will remember when this had come up in the auctions here in nagpur. Do you really think it will be a good idea to use this as a base vehicle for this project ? Is the engine trouble free once I restore it ? what about the noise ?
What silent engine options can I think to put in the FC ?

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Interesting, the way the tigress is crouching and sneaking up from behind the vehicle in 1st pic.

3rd pic. Just love the way she is sneaking up from the side, her body almost touching the Gypsy....SOUNDLESSLY, imagine the reaction of the beautiful lady and her smile when she saw the tigress so suddenly, this close.

All including the tracker, driver are totally oblivious to her (tigress) presence so close by.

Here's a video of this event shot by someone from behind

YouTube - Tigress (Machli / T-16) killing Sambhar at Ranthambore India-Unedited Footage.avi

And a photo shot by the lady (Babette De Jonge a wildlife conservationist from New Zealand) from this Gypsy .


And this is what she wrote about this incident :

During one very hot afternoon (at least 45 degrees) we really had a hard time. In Machli's territory there was hardly any shade. She was resting a long way from us down-hill near a "pool" and we had to wait for her up in the sun, after driving for a long time already in the soaring heat. We honestly didn't know if it was worth the waiting as it was so bloody hot and the clever cat was already having water close to her, so why would she bother coming all the way up, to pass lots of vehicles with lots of tourists, just to go to another waterhole? "Why would she bother being active at all? ", we asked ourselves, probably referring to ourselves and the difficulties we had this afternoon dealing with the heat and no-shadow problem. But... a good time to show how unpredictable the wild animals are, even the wild cats, who are always referred to as being lazy. Machli did come up, passed near the vehicles and suddenly went down behind one gypsy, suddenly looking very alert and adapting a pose of a cat that has a kill in her mind. Not far from the place we saw a group of Sambar deer, who didn't seem to have noticed the tiger sneaking up to them behind the vehicles. They were probably paying more attention to the tumult the vehicles were causing and Machli took advantage of this. She soon started running and jumped onto one of the big sambar deer and knocked it down. We were a bit worried before if Machli would still be able to make a kill, as she is getting quite old and with only one canine teeth left, but in one instant moment all our worries had disappeared. Wow, what a killer cat. The loud audience was applauding but we decided not to pay attention to this and use the extra adrenaline to make great stills and footage of this unbelievable rare moment. To see a cat kill right before your eyes is as unique as it can be, but to see a tiger making a kill like this, just is once in a lifetime.

We have documentation from different perspectives for this incident thanks to our wonderful reach in the jungle going crowd of the country.

Originally Posted by Anupam

Hello Abheek and Gents

do you think a Trax Gurkha 4WD engine on a Trax Cruiser Chassis would give the right ground to build the Safari Vehicle on, btw your pictures took me back to my days in Nairobi, where such vehicles are a common sight

in addition, I have a mx friend here in Pune who makes campers and trailors as his hobby, he may have some interesting ideas and would be happy to execute it for you as well

Trax Gurkha 4WD engine or any other engine for that matter as friends, I am not interested in a lot of power in this vehicle which should have only sufficient power to haul 6 to 8 persons on jungle dirt tracks with the occasional use of the 4wd.
This is the difference between this project and the others which need a powerful engine.

I understand that the cruiser being a relatively newer model and a favorite with the taxi guys may not be easily or cheaply available and hence I was thinking in terms of the older trax chassis.

It would be great if you can also involve your friend in this discussion so that we can get his inputs too.

Also does anyone have an idea if one of these vehicles that we are discussing on this thread is available for sale anywhere ?
I have already set my feelers in the market to be on the lookout for a prospective vehicle and it would hep me a lot if anyone amongst you can give me any pointer. Anythig from "chassis with engines" to "total loss vehicles" to "old vehicles lying unused".

regards,
Dr. A Ghosh

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by abheekg

Do you really think it will be a good idea to use this as a base vehicle for this project ? Is the engine trouble free once I restore it ? what about the noise ?
What silent engine options can I think to put in the FC ?

Small vehicle with lots of space freed up due to the forward control layout - designing a comfortable set of 9 seats would be very much feasible. I would think the manoeuvrability of a larger chassis would also be an issue (the Tata vehicles definitely have a tougher time turning around on the forest trails.) No similar FC chassis is available with 4WD AFAIK.

The FC came with the Perkins 4-cyl diesel IIRC - a noisy unit undoubtedly, but pretty reliable and easy to repair. Maybe someone hunting around at Mayapuri or similar markets can come up with an army-disposal unit. These were generally used as ambulances and did not get as abused as other vehicles operating in forward areas. If cost of running is no object (or running it on LPG/CNG is a feasible option), the Hurricane petrol engine would be silent and powerful enough (I think the early army vehicles upto c.1970's came with the Hurricane engine). Other options can be the Isuzu-Amby 1.8 petrol (plenty available from scrapped cars) or the Isuzu 2.0 diesel.

Costwise, since you mention your budget to be 1.5-2L INR (which I presume includes the customised seats and bodywork modifications), the chassis and engine have to be available at rock-bottom prices - within 1-1.2L INR on the outside. At this price point, I wouldn't think there's anything else available with 4WD option.

Originally Posted by abheekg

Here's a video of this event shot by someone from behind
YouTube - Tigress (Machli / T-16) killing Sambhar at Ranthambore India-Unedited Footage.avi


And a photo shot by the lady (Babette De Jonge a wildlife conservationist from New Zealand) from this Gypsy .
Attachment 410724

What a great video and pic! Someday soon, I'm going to visit TATR with you!

[rahultomahawk]

hi ss , you can see kandisa, s thread mm440 izuzu powered mm440 petrol.
we had taken the jeep to leh last month it performed flawlessly in those conditions
you can built a jeep with a extended rear with seats and use the isuzu power train

[abheekg]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Small vehicle with lots of space freed up due to the forward control layout - designing a comfortable set of 9 seats would be very much feasible. I would think the manoeuvrability of a larger chassis would also be an issue (the Tata vehicles definitely have a tougher time turning around on the forest trails.) No similar FC chassis is available with 4WD AFAIK.

The FC came with the Perkins 4-cyl diesel IIRC - a noisy unit undoubtedly, but pretty reliable and easy to repair. Maybe someone hunting around at Mayapuri or similar markets can come up with an army-disposal unit. These were generally used as ambulances and did not get as abused as other vehicles operating in forward areas. If cost of running is no object (or running it on LPG/CNG is a feasible option), the Hurricane petrol engine would be silent and powerful enough (I think the early army vehicles upto c.1970's came with the Hurricane engine). Other options can be the Isuzu-Amby 1.8 petrol (plenty available from scrapped cars) or the Isuzu 2.0 diesel.

Costwise, since you mention your budget to be 1.5-2L INR (which I presume includes the customised seats and bodywork modifications), the chassis and engine have to be available at rock-bottom prices - within 1-1.2L INR on the outside. At this price point, I wouldn't think there's anything else available with 4WD option.

This has definitely got my Grey cells in overdrive.
Fazal saab and the others, what do you have to say about this and the other options ?

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

What a great video and pic! Someday soon, I'm going to visit TATR with you!

You are most welcome. It will be my pleasure to have your company sir.

Originally Posted by rahultomahawk

hi ss , you can see kandisa, s thread mm440 izuzu powered mm440 petrol.
we had taken the jeep to leh last month it performed flawlessly in those conditions
you can built a jeep with a extended rear with seats and use the isuzu power train

How's the performance of this engine in terms of mileage and running costs ?

regards,
Dr. A Ghosh

[rahultomahawk]

hi dr gosh you can pm soumen aka kandisa or mandeep aka renege they will have the exact details .
my jeep is also being done up by mandeep its a mm440 petrol with a izuzu carb 1.8 with izusu 4x4 transfer case.
(i have a original miki carb so it has more power as it has a bigger throttle body. for technicals please pm mandeep).mileage is less but cant tell you exactly as i have not driven my jeep.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by abheekg

What are the various engineering challenges that I need to address to get this project through ? Pardon my ignorance but I am here to understand the expected problems ad avoid them.
Difficult to have a vehicle which is good on both highways and trails, which is what I thought you were wanting. Excelling at one normally means sacrificing the other. Or you have big expensive vehicles like the Prado or Range Rover.

Dr. A Ghosh

I think Fazal Ali Adils suggestion is the most workable.

Also Shamindras, IF you can get a FC in reasonable condition.

You have to be very careful that passengers sitting on the last row are literally not thrown out of the vehicle if you are a bit exuberant (or careless) in your driving.

Having had some experience of most Indian 4x4s, my first choice for your requirement would be the Gypsy. For reliability, if nothing else.

Regards
Sutripta

[Anupam]

Originally Posted by abheekg

Trax Gurkha 4WD engine or any other engine for that matter as friends, I am not interested in a lot of power in this vehicle which should have only sufficient power to haul 6 to 8 persons on jungle dirt tracks with the occasional use of the 4wd.
This is the difference between this project and the others which need a powerful engine.

I understand that the cruiser being a relatively newer model and a favorite with the taxi guys may not be easily or cheaply available and hence I was thinking in terms of the older trax chassis.

It would be great if you can also involve your friend in this discussion so that we can get his inputs too.

well, this friend, from a motocrosser has now turned into a bike tourer, he is currently off to Bhutan on a bike tour, (2 years back he did full Europe on a Bajaj Pulsar), you will have to connect to him one to one on phone as he is not really a forum guy, but rest assured he usually comes up with real out of the box ideas, and the topic as yours is pretty close to his heart as I remember him talking about it quite on few occasion

[SirAlec]

Originally Posted by abheekg

By spacio open top do you mean this vehicle ?
Attachment 410727
I have hardly see this on India roads or does it come in a different avatar ?
Any pointers where should I look at to procure one of these ?

Yup. These has TATA 407 engine. very rugged. Company use to give 1 lac kms 18+18 months warranty. Which was later reduced to 50k kms. Family had hard top version once. I saw a soft top version in the showroom when I went get this.

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

What a great video and pic! Someday soon, I'm going to visit TATR with you!

Dr. Ghosh,

That video was an amazing display of stealth and before it was added here, I suspected that she was stalking prey using the Gypsy as a visual barrier.

The pics. of her behind the Gypsy and by its side both show long strides, low crouch and focused stare which is usually as you all know seconds before the lunge. Unbelievably, some ignorant guy cranked his engine at the very crucial moment.

The FC is a good idea too and I can try and get you one brand new 1.8 Isuzu petrol engine from here, but you will need to search out a 4X4 GB.

Some day soon, Dr. Shom (SS Traveller) I too would like to coincide my visit TATR with you and be in the company of two doctors (Dr.Ghosh). Hopefully.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind being in that Gypsy for obvious reasons, la petit.

Regards,

[jeepster]

hi Dr. Ghosh
attaching some pictures they might help you.

mm 750 4x4

mm 650 4x4

a unmodified pick up

pink jeep tours : all jeeps are SWB

NOTE: not a single pic is mine, thanks to Google Images .

[jeepster]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Dr. Ghosh, in case you come across a Forward Control (FC) Jeep, I would think that would fit your requirements perfectly.

Originally Posted by abheekg

What silent engine options can I think to put in the FC ?

here are some pictures of FC.
engine options: entire mahindra 4x4 engine & drive line range.
Hurricane , s4 diesel, xdp4.90, xd3p,may be DI too.
only hurricane is the silent one of all.

[abheekg]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Small vehicle with lots of space freed up due to the forward control layout - designing a comfortable set of 9 seats would be very much feasible. I would think the manoeuvrability of a larger chassis would also be an issue (the Tata vehicles definitely have a tougher time turning around on the forest trails.) No similar FC chassis is available with 4WD AFAIK.

The FC came with the Perkins 4-cyl diesel IIRC - a noisy unit undoubtedly, but pretty reliable and easy to repair. Maybe someone hunting around at Mayapuri or similar markets can come up with an army-disposal unit. These were generally used as ambulances and did not get as abused as other vehicles operating in forward areas. If cost of running is no object (or running it on LPG/CNG is a feasible option), the Hurricane petrol engine would be silent and powerful enough (I think the early army vehicles upto c.1970's came with the Hurricane engine). Other options can be the Isuzu-Amby 1.8 petrol (plenty available from scrapped cars) or the Isuzu 2.0 diesel.

Costwise, since you mention your budget to be 1.5-2L INR (which I presume includes the customised seats and bodywork modifications), the chassis and engine have to be available at rock-bottom prices - within 1-1.2L INR on the outside. At this price point, I wouldn't think there's anything else available with 4WD option.

Thanks for all the inputs guys.
Today morning I checked out both the willys and the Mahindra FC both of whose live working vehicles I could find with the electricity department of nagpur.

I also found some photos online which showed the use of this vehicle as a safari car.














Conclusion : Although it would be a super spacious vehicle , this vehicle will be too big for my kind of use for this project.
What do you say Fazal sir ?

Having said that I must also add that I must thank you for bringing this vehicle to my notice and I have been hooked to this vehicle and some point of time down the years I will look to procure one of these and restore it to a 4x4 truck for some serious offroad use

Originally Posted by rahultomahawk

hi dr gosh you can pm soumen aka kandisa or mandeep aka renege they will have the exact details .
my jeep is also being done up by mandeep its a mm440 petrol with a izuzu carb 1.8 with izusu 4x4 transfer case.
(i have a original miki carb so it has more power as it has a bigger throttle body. for technicals please pm mandeep).mileage is less but cant tell you exactly as i have not driven my jeep.

I will talk to them.

Originally Posted by Anupam

well, this friend, from a motocrosser has now turned into a bike tourer, he is currently off to Bhutan on a bike tour, (2 years back he did full Europe on a Bajaj Pulsar), you will have to connect to him one to one on phone as he is not really a forum guy, but rest assured he usually comes up with real out of the box ideas, and the topic as yours is pretty close to his heart as I remember him talking about it quite on few occasion

Pl pm me his number.

Originally Posted by SirAlec

Yup. These has TATA 407 engine. very rugged. Company use to give 1 lac kms 18+18 months warranty. Which was later reduced to 50k kms. Family had hard top version once. I saw a soft top version in the showroom when I went get this.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

I think Fazal Ali Adils suggestion is the most workable.

Also Shamindras, IF you can get a FC in reasonable condition.

You have to be very careful that passengers sitting on the last row are literally not thrown out of the vehicle if you are a bit exuberant (or careless) in your driving.

Having had some experience of most Indian 4x4s, my first choice for your requirement would be the Gypsy. For reliability, if nothing else.

Regards
Sutripta

I am beginning to think that it will either be one of the mahindra vehicles that Arka suggested (which may be available super cheap) or a trax/spacio as suggested by Sir Alec (if I can find one in my budget) or oe of my gypsies which seems to be the general consensus of the forum which will be used for this project.

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Dr. Ghosh,

That video was an amazing display of stealth and before it was added here, I suspected that she was stalking prey using the Gypsy as a visual barrier.

The pics. of her behind the Gypsy and by its side both show long strides, low crouch and focused stare which is usually as you all know seconds before the lunge. Unbelievably, some ignorant guy cranked his engine at the very crucial moment.

The FC is a good idea too and I can try and get you one brand new 1.8 Isuzu petrol engine from here, but you will need to search out a 4X4 GB.

Some day soon, Dr. Shom (SS Traveller) I too would like to coincide my visit TATR with you and be in the company of two doctors (Dr.Ghosh). Hopefully.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind being in that Gypsy for obvious reasons, la petit.

Regards,

Sir I am givig the FC a pass for this project ut we will take it up sometime in the future.
And yes we will very soon coordinate and go together.

Originally Posted by jeepster

hi Dr. Ghosh
attaching some pictures they might help you.

mm 750 4x4

Attachment 411006

mm 650 4x4

Attachment 411007

a unmodified pick up

Attachment 411008

pink jeep tours : all jeeps are SWB

Attachment 411009

Attachment 411010

Attachment 411011

Attachment 411012

Attachment 411013

NOTE: not a single pic is mine, thanks to Google Images .

Thank you for bringing out these images. This starts giving me so may options with regards to using the mahindra vehicles.

I had been wondering how the safari jeep would look if we used one of the mahindra vehicles. It wouldn't look bad !! If only we could fit a petrol engine for this !!


regards,
Dr. A Ghosh