[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Plus as Samurai has put it, THAR's used for personal purpose will never be mistaken as people carrier as some serious modifications would go into it to give it a personal identity by the owner.
hmnnn.....

After reading all the pricing speculation the THAR Crde AT APPROX 8.5 LAKHS (on road), it is absolutely NOT VALUE FOR MONEY, and if the above statement holds true, another 1-1.5 lakhs will be the cost of differentiating the rural transport from personal transport.

Why is everyone here talking Ex showroom prices. Sounds like a bunch of M& M sales guys discussing pricing strategy here.
Lets discuss ON ROAD prices instead to know how less value is being provided to the customer by M&M.
They are using almost 20 yr old design, same old body panels with hardly any different mechanicals with a BS 3 engine and all antiquated technology in the form of the Mdi and call it a VFM strategy. Add salt to it when they say it has potential for upgrade for the enthusiast.
I call it a total rip -off.
The Mdi might make sense for the rural taxi considering the amount of kms they will put in with that workhorse. But for an enthusiast, buying a Thar 4x4 Mdi at approx 7 lakhs + on road and then spending money to modify it further so he can have a steed to pose with over the weekends, isnt really worth it.

And all this hype being created over the forum to promote/ create a brand even before its launch looks like eyewash.
AND considering the above Quoted statement, Mahindra is going to laugh at the foolish THAR Crde customer all the way to the bank.
I for one was seriously contemplating and waiting for the Thar. But looking at the way this is going, its making me less enthusiastic.

Cheers,

Jay

[JeepHyde]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

They are using almost 20 yr old design, same old body panels with hardly any different mechanicals with a BS 3 engine and all antiquated technology in the form of the Mdi and call it a VFM strategy. Add salt to it when they say it has potential for upgrade for the enthusiast.
I call it a total rip -off.

Jay

Well said Jay..... I second your take on THAR. However the reviews on this forum from members who test drove it are very encouraging and promise a lot to be expected from the jeep's performance. So performance wise, I guess, there is something to expect... but (like it has been said earlier on the forum here) what will convert THAR to Sales is eventually the pricing factor.

So far the discussions and assumptions on the pricing are discouraging to an enthusiast.

My Question: Why should I buy a brand New Thar when I can build my own 'Thar' from say, MM550 or MM540 as more VFM option or Why shouldn't I wait with a little more patience for Thar to hit the used market?

[Cyrus43]

You know, after holding back on this topic for well obvious reasons, it sickens me to see the fact that despite an auto manufacturer, or in this case a group of passionate people inside an auto manufacturer put in the efforts to do something good for you guys, you all still grumble.

Yes, I disagree with the MDi being called the Thar, but common sense dictates you call two exactly same looking vehicles the same for the sake of sheer non confusion. And yes, I believe the Thar image might slightly get diluted in terms of pure brand value. Im looking at this from a marketing perspective so I might have a different opinion to others.

From an engineering point of view though, we all know what this car is capable of as we have seen it perform at the EXAAM and AKC. it went through EACH and EVERY single obstacle. Only one of the few cars that did it mind you!! So then why do we keep on harping at the fact that IFS doesnt work. Im not saying this as this is Dad's project and I am Biased, no, I say this from a completely third person perspective and I say this having taken the opinion of atleast 30-40 of my other friends who did not know about the thar in general. This includes friends here in London who ere thoroughly impressed with the spec of the car and saw Sharath's Examm report.

How can you make assumptions on the price if they havent been released yet? How can you decide the fate of a car without ever driving it. If you dont like it, go buy your old used, reused and basically "molested" army disposals or your ridiculously overpriced second hand gypsys and then keep tinkering with them every few days to make them work.

I know for a fact that Thar bashing will continue for eternity, just as Fiat bashing continues on other threads, but then maybe some of you have no soul and just wont understand... Sad though. Have fun with your little japanese pretenders.


EDIT: And let us not forget, at the end of the day, You aren't doing Mahindra a favor by buying the Thar or by Buying any of its other products. The fact of the matter is, they are a company which build cars for PROFIT. If they didn't do that, they woudn't exist. They are not here for charity!

[bblost]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Yes, I disagree with the MDi being called the Thar, but common sense dictates you call two exactly same looking vehicles the same for the sake of sheer non confusion. And yes, I believe the Thar image might slightly get diluted in terms of pure brand value. Im looking at this from a marketing perspective so I might have a different opinion to others.

I agree with your points. Also I feel that M&M is betting on the fact that an enthusiast will still buy his vehicle no matter what it is called.

From an engineering point of view though, we all know what this car is capable of as we have seen it perform at the EXAAM and AKC. it went through EACH and EVERY single obstacle. Only one of the few cars that did it mind you!! So then why do we keep on harping at the fact that IFS doesnt work. Im not saying this as this is Dad's project and I am Biased, no, I say this from a completely third person perspective and I say this having taken the opinion of atleast 30-40 of my other friends who did not know about the thar in general. This includes friends here in London who ere thoroughly impressed with the spec of the car and saw Sarath's Examm report.

That would be answered only when the actual Thar gets launched.

Have fun with your little japanese pretenders.

Not fair. The Gypsy holds its ground very well. And IMHO this is off topic for this thread.

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by bblost

I agree with your points. Also I feel that M&M is betting on the fact that an enthusiast will still buy his vehicle no matter what it is called.

That is precisely my point! And that is because they have the tech to support it!! which other car on the market gives this kind of flexibility today!!

That would be answered only when the actual Thar gets launched.

Why do you believe that the Thar that was at EXAMM and AKC wasnt the actual thar? Give me one fact that supports the statement that it was some souped up devil's seed.

Not fair. The Gypsy holds its ground very well. And IMHO this is off topic for this thread.

Allright. Lets leave it at that then.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Why do you believe that the Thar that was at EXAMM and AKC wasnt the actual thar? Give me one fact that supports the statement that it was some souped up devil's seed.

Sorry, let me rephrase that. When the Actual thar is launched and made available to all of us.
I am not saying that the EXAMM/ AKC was not the real thar. I am saying let it come into the market.

[Cyrus43]

But there have been references made in this thread stating otherwise. Anyways, as Vinod said, that will be soon. So I guess I can't really say much here...

[AWD]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

After reading all the pricing speculation the THAR Crde AT APPROX 8.5 LAKHS (on road), it is absolutely NOT VALUE FOR MONEY

8.5L would be way OTT, should I say the least VFM!

another 1-1.5 lakhs will be the cost of differentiating the rural transport from personal transport

Really funny, I guess the Bolero, Scorpio & Safari find a lot of favor among Rural folk. What all do we do to distinguish these!

They are using almost 20 yr old design, same old body panels with hardly any different mechanicals with a BS 3 engine and all antiquated technology in the form of the Mdi and call it a VFM

I guess its older than that, much older. VFM would be a far-fetched dream.

all this hype being created over the forum to promote/ create a brand even before its launch looks like eyewash

Clever marketing & taking consumers for a wild ride!

considering the above Quoted statement, Mahindra is going to laugh at the foolish THAR Crde customer all the way to the bank

They must have been laughing ever since they started discussing it on public boards!

I for one was seriously contemplating and waiting for the Thar. But looking at the way this is going, its making me less enthusiastic.

Same here, very less enthusiastic.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

EDIT: And let us not forget, at the end of the day, You aren't doing Mahindra a favor by buying the Thar or by Buying any of its other products. The fact of the matter is, they are a company which build cars for PROFIT. If they didn't do that, they woudn't exist. They are not here for charity!

Dear Cyrus , this is off topic .

The customer does a favour to the seller whenever he buys somthing . Companies are there because of people ( common people ) It is the Collective might (views,thinking) & money of common people that allows companies to survive or not

Lets not forget what happened with Kinetic, escorts , Ideal Jawa & even with Bajaj ( with there scooters ) & also Premier & HM .
tell me why the nano is lagging behind ?

Manufacturers make profit not because the product is good or bad but because people buy it . Many of the current products ( all companies included ) just dont really fit in the 'value for money ' but are sold in numbers anyway ( for various reasons )

Sudarshan

PS DB sir is a great man , a very honest ,knowledgible & yet down to earth I respect hiim not because any company, but as a person of great qualities. Till now I didnt know that he is your DAD

Note : Dear BHP support delete this post if found offencive

[swastikviji]

Moderators if this is posted already please delete the post.

This may help prospective buyers,

[Cyrus43]

I dont think it is OT at all sudarshan. Simply because most posts here are staring to edge towards mahindra's business ethics.

and about your last point. If it wasn't for me, he would have never known about teamBHP hahaha... just kidding!

But, coming to value for money, I could argue that things like the Honda City or the VW polo is not value for money, but they still sell like hot cakes don't they. (similar to what you said)

But in the Thar's case, it actually IS a good product.

Originally Posted by AWD

They must have been laughing ever since they started discussing it on public boards!

Do get your facts right my friend, Dad started the threads on the thar way before any of you guys knew he was with M&M. infact as I remember correctly it was something that came up over dinner which inevitably must have been "DHUN-DAR" once and that is how it started. hehe!!

[alabjarus]

Originally Posted by swastikviji

Moderators if this is posted already please delete the post.

This may help prospective buyers,

@swastikviji - Where did you get this pricing info from...? If these figures are correct it would peg Thar CRDE 4x4's on road price in Bangalore at ~7.5L, which is a great price. Particularly when rebuilt, good as new, MM540/550's are quoted Rs 3.5-4.0 L in the market.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

You know, after holding back on this topic for well obvious reasons, it sickens me to see the fact that despite an auto manufacturer, or in this case a group of passionate people inside an auto manufacturer put in the efforts to do something good for you guys, you all still grumble.

Well im sure there is a reason to grumble else so many wouldnt be grumbling.
And you may call it grumbling. I call it a perspective.

The manufacturer isnt doing me a favour, they are doing themselves one coz they will make a profit out of my decision.
So by so called grumbling.. im doing myself a favour because im voicing my perspective.
As a prospective customer thisw is how I look at it;
M&M Thar Mdi 4x4 approx 7/7.5 laks onroad(based upon the current discussions)
No new technology.
BS 3 engine which I cant buy in the metro city.
No new tech or nothing enthusiastic about the specs either.
Will have to spend more money to bring it upto to ENTHUSIASTIC standards.
WHich means that it will cost me more onroad.

M&M Thar Crde 4x4 approx 8/8.5 lakhs onroad(estimated price being discussed on this forum)
Crde engine.
IFS (which is not rocket science, just that M&M is providing it on the mm540/550 in 2010).
Ac & PS
Hardtop(will be optional)
No alloys/optional.
Basically everything else is optional based upon current discussions.

So I will have to spend another 1/1.5 lakhs to bring it up to ENTHUSIASTIC standards, which takes the Thar crde into 9 lakh territory. So will I be enthusiastic = NO.

Why should we consider ON ROAD pricing for the THAR.
from what i assums most of the prospective owners discussing the Thar here are not buying it for rural transportation. Most are or will be enthusiasts, off roaders, etc. So after buying the Thar in its barebones like M&M is going to sell it as seen in the Thar Mdi pics, one will have to upgrade a lot.
From what is being discussed, the potential upgrade(ENTHUSIAST perspective) for the Thar Mdi 4x4 willl include; rims, tires, axles, suspension lift, sump guard, ac & ps maybe. So all this adds to the on road cost though it may be done over time.
Many may argue that one should'nt consider this, but I as a customer have to factor it in since Im an enthusiast. So M&M doesnt make me very enthusiastic after it gives me an Mdi BS3 engine with ancient tech which I will have to upgrade using my own money. Just because they want to milk the customer they give a Thar Mdi, which is akin to showing the middle finger and saying, if you want to buy the real thing(Thar Mdi- i dont think so) you have to have a rural address or buy the Crde(which M&M wants us to percieve as the REAL thing), which by the given discussed costing is nothing short of a joke.
While few here would want me to believe that this Thar is something really special, I would like to ask, whats so special about a Crde engine with IFS and practically everything else being optional at cost to the customer!!

So guys, i feel this M&M sales pitch on the forum in the guise of wanting customer opinion isnt impressing the enthusiast im me.

And like has been posted by many, M&M is here to make money, so by all means they can try all their stunts.
But before I pull out my cheque Im going to make sure, its going to be a bang for my buck.
Let the sales pitch get louder.

Cheers,

Jay

EDIT >> I just saw Swastikviji's post on the pricing.
Since the source is unknown, its hard to tell how true it is compared to the grapevine doing the rounds on this forum.
Anyways, if the figures hold true, it does look acceptable for the Thar Crde.

To note, that these are soft tops, so the extra expenses still amount to 1.5 lakhs if you add hard top etc for a decent enthusiastic upgrade.

@Swastikviji >> Does the Soft top come with ac & ps or is that optional again?

[Sha]

Originally Posted by swastikviji

Moderators if this is posted already please delete the post.

This may help prospective buyers,

Sir good catch, so basically 7.5 lac onroad in bangalore disappointing, it should have been 6.5 lac onroad.

[dinar]

@swastikviji, this price list posted by you is from a dealer?
The prices mentioned are pretty close to being a value product. could have been cheaper by 50 grand through out but, this seams to be fare.
This makes me Happy.
Beharm sir now please let us know whens the launch and where do I send the money.