[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Scorpio has rack & pinion, still Rehaan's Scorpio broke a CV joint last week in the Kuttikanam OTR. That is making lot of people think...

The CV joint for IFS 4WD systems are generally weaker than the sold axles counter parts. But I not sure how the PS caused the CV joint to break.

I now the IFS debate has gone on for too long and the pros and cons are debatable and I don't want to ignite that fire again. But I can assure you that the IFS and Rack and Pinion steering will cause hefty maintenance bills for the Thar down the road under heavy off-road usage.

This is essentially the price you pay for on-road refinement and handling. Yes, the Hummer & The TLC from 100 series has IFS, but you cannot even remotely compare the Hummers & TLCs IFS set up with was designed for off-road use with Scoprio's which is predominantly a people mover.

For those of you who feel IFS is better, I have no problem with it. All I am saying is that it is less durable than Solid Axle & much more expensive to fix when something goes wrong.

[Jaggu]

CV joints as far as we have seen, have been a constant issue, we know that someone has ordered the 4th set. If i am not mistaken it costs 40k each time!

Coming to PS, the additional strain it puts on the axle is obvious. In a conventional non ps system, beyond a certain point the steering wont even turn. In a PS system, the hydrolics will just put so much of strain and the driver wont even get a feedback from the steering that its being pushed to the limits.That's where the concern is. Ok please dont think that we are getting into a running down session here, am just wondering if there are any other options to avoid such expensive situations.

Even the auto locking hubs are a pain, if one is serious about off-road usage its better to remove them and put manual hub locks. But will this add to the strain? As in auto hub locks do they disengage if it detects too much of trouble??

arghhhh too many questions, somebody please get into the vehicle and put it through a proper offroad testing!!!

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Coming to PS, the additional strain it puts on the axle is obvious. In a conventional non ps system, beyond a certain point the steering wont even turn. In a PS system, the hydrolics will just put so much of strain and the driver wont even get a feedback from the steering that its being pushed to the limits.That's where the concern is.

I do understand the PS puts pressure on the Steering System, but what I am saying is that I don't feel this will result in CV joint breakage. The CV joints are stronger than the Rack & Pinion. So I feel the Rack & Pinion will break before the CV.

The axle rotates the wheel, the steering turns the wheels. How will the turning force from the steering break axle components? I feel it maybe possible to retrofit the Manual Recirculating Ball steering from the Pick up series or MDI M40 onto the Thar. Then again after spending 7.5 Lakhs do you want to slice and dice? Upgrading tires, etc is okay. However, we should have to change core mechanical components like steering/suspension etc. This is why I feel MDI Thar is much better if your intend is to build a very off-road capable machine. The Thar CRDe is like body building with steriods. It looks good and can lift 500 kgs, but other parts become smaller/weaker due to continues steriod usage.

Another option is to see if you retrofit a Safari 4x4 steering box onto the Thar.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Even the auto locking hubs are a pain, if one is serious about off-road usage its better to remove them and put manual hub locks. But will this add to the strain? As in auto hub locks do they disengage if it detects too much of trouble??

I don't think this is a problem. Once the locks engage, you have to reverse them in 2WD mode to disengage. But as you said, it is much better to avoid all these unwanted extras as it is better to have manual hub locks or no hub lock. I feel you can retrofit the manual hub locks from Warn, etc.

[Jaggu]

Turning force + Strain from axle = Broken CV?

Lambda hub locks should fit without much headache, i was asking since i wanted to know that if we put a manual hub lock will it add to woe? Or are the auto hub locks better.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Turning force + Strain from axle = Broken CV?

Lambda hub locks should fit without much headache, i was asking since i wanted to know that if we put a manual hub lock will it add to woe? Or are the auto hub locks better.

A qualis powered kaiser was stuck once and trying to free her, the torque produced by the toyota engine completely stripped apart the brand new pair lambdas. Let me see if i have pics somewhere...

I would go for fixed flanges.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

A qualis powered kaiser was stuck once and trying to free her, the torque produced by the toyota engine completely stripped apart the brand new pair lambdas.

Actually that's a good thing. The hub locks are the weakest link in the entire setup. Also the cheapest. When the strain is too much, it it better if the hub locks break. Keep a spare flange. If the locks break, replace it with flange and you are good to go.

[Jaggu]

Woah! this is the first time i am hearing about lambda's hub failing! But yes as Samurai mentioned, its one way good. And hence the reason i asked if auto lock hubs have some advantage that it will unlock if it feels the situation is putting unwanted strain to the shafts?

[Tejas@perioimpl]

So the question is: What is the max load of the Axles and other component and what max weight of tyre, etc can they take before failing. And what is the max capacity of the lambda hubs? They were designed for older jeeps. Can they take the additional torque?

[Jaggu]

^^ I know Lambda survived the same Scorpio which busted the CV's

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

And what is the max capacity of the lambda hubs? They were designed for older jeeps. Can they take the additional torque?

You can't use the same on the Thar, the spline count will be different.

[Parm]

so much discussion about this and that of what Thar has and what is missing.

it makes me wonder how many of TBhp members will end up buying Thar CRDe OR Thar MDi?

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Samurai

You can't use the same on the Thar, the spline count will be different.

Yup even for scorpio the count is different and Lambda make one specifically for that vehicle.

[AWD]

The thread is moving on the lines of previous closed threads. Formal announcement as usual is still eluding.
A confirmation was to come on Mon/Tue but again MM fellows shirked.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

p.s- Just wish that one thing in that other ADT vehicle becomes a reality

And what is that? A MLD?

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

A qualis powered kaiser was stuck once and trying to free her, the torque produced by the toyota engine completely stripped apart the brand new pair lambdas. Let me see if i have pics somewhere...
I would go for fixed flanges.

Did both fail? Agree with you on fixed flanges when the going gets really tough.

@Jaggu, and 4x4addict. Agree with 4x4addicts reasoning.
Does Rehaan's Scorpio have any modifications, esp. body lift?

Regards
Sutripta

[tsk1979]

Last time I checked, the dealer cost for a pair of auto locking hubs seen on the likes of scorpio etc., cost 10,000 a pair.
Speaking of people actually buying a Thar, if it has AC/PS and some finish, people who want a 4x4 tourer will go ahead and buy the thar. Safari/Scorpio are a little too expensive.
However, I doubt OTR guys will buy the Thar because OTRs will void warranty,.