[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Yes, that is Rocky Beige.

You need to clap at my statement also Spikee! I just test drove and it reveals nothing for offroad if you ask me, inside city roads.

Originally Posted by speedy

Please do check as a 07 Model would not be allowed in LHD and if it is converted to a RHD it is useless.

Speedy what do you mean by useless? If it is done by professional set up, wont it be fine. I know of workshops in gulfffff who specialize at this for imports??

Originally Posted by nims

Anyways we are deviating from the THAR here. I was going through the thread and saw that the wiring harness is equipped for the a/c and an outside mechanic cannot fit the a/c simply, then i saw this in the motoroid review the following
========

Wait for sometime M&M team is working on this. It is not a straight fit job right now, only the dummy pully can be removed to place the compressor. Right from the front radiator grill it is going to be a nightmare if you are planning to do it outside, at this point of time. My gut feel its just matter of months.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Spike's question is who will pay for these components? M&M is not supplying and dealer claims it is free. So guess the dealer is paying for it? I think the dealer maybe offering the fitment charges for free and not the added components which will have to be borne by the buyer.

Dealer is clueless, thats all i can say. NO AC right now from dealership in the price quoted!

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Is the rust problem you noticed on the CRDe variant or MDI variant? The reason I am asking is that both are manufactured in different plants and the CRDe goes through a better paint treatment along the scorpio lines.

Body preparation and painting is way different and is better on the Crde. But old panel's still give away stuff, like panel gaps, body line etc.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I don't think ECM needs to be reprogrammed for AC fitment. Can you please elaborate on why ECM needs to be reprogrammed for AC? Is it for the idle control when AC is switched on?

Most probably like StarAqua mentioned, one will have to rig up the additional connector and then use the scanner to enable the AC functioning. Not necessarily a remap.

Originally Posted by IronWolf

Wont the ECM be programed to accommodate AC fitment and sense the additional strain on the engine?
I dont think remapping or reprogramming would be necessary? Spike?

Nims - You can fit a after market AC right now if you want now.

Or wait for about 4-6 months when the AC kit is provided by Mahindra itself. Fitted under warranty.

No IronWolf i dont think after market AC fitment is that straight a job right now. It will be a bigger nightmare compared even to Gypsy. Take a close look and you will know why. But yes remap might not be required, but some wiring hook up and enabling the functionality using scanners or something.

Ideally wait for 6 months or so, and let M&M do the hard work for us.

Originally Posted by sriny_blr

If you are Central Govt employee then you can pay the Road tax Annually. I know this because my BIL who is a central govt employee bought his I10 and is paying Road tax annually.

Yes this definitely seems like a good idea for some minor relief/savings.

[yikes6633]

Hi,

Today was a memorable day for me as I got behind the wheels of the Thar CRDe. Silver Color with the odometer reading 0181Kms.

I was asked to wait for a couple of minutes before I could take a test drive. In the meantime I continued to go through the black color kept on display. By the way 4X4 the rust is observed on the Thar CRDe at the interface of the body and the Bonette hinges (display model at BLR showroom).

I was excited and looked through the instrument panel, the front facia and the overall feel.

Then I was requested to step outside for the test drive and I was handed over the keys. Boy! I was excited.

On firing up the engine and dipping my foot on the accelerator, the engine purrred smoothly with a very refined sound. Then I set off. The Thar feels amazing, different from the feeling of driving any of the older DI engines. This thing is superb. Its not bouncy and handles well on the road.

In my 10 mins with the Thar, I could not test the 4WD, however I am in love with it. It gives me the best of both the world's - the Jeep and SUV like smoothness.

It's an awesome vehicle.

Just some observations which I think could have been done better on the Thar are:
1) There is very little space between the steering and the dash. It will require one to get used to the crampiness over a period of time
2) To the left of the steering the access to the wiper controls are difficult.
3) This one was most disturbing - the steering wheel is inclined i.e I will need to stretch my left hand more than the right to hold the steering firmly. The steering wheel is also not central to the seating position i.e. it is more to the left of the seat giving it an odd feeling for starters.

Rest of it is a fantastic package.

Love the Thar.

I walked in to the black thar to confirm if the odd feeling of the steering was just in the test drive Thar or was it something that was standard due to the manufacturing configuration, however noticed that it was the same with the other Thar too.
Yikes

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by yikes6633

Just some observations which I think could have been done better on the Thar are:
1) There is very little space between the steering and the dash. It will require one to get used to the crampiness over a period of time
2) To the left of the steering the access to the wiper controls are difficult.
3) This one was most disturbing - the steering wheel is inclined i.e I will need to stretch my left hand more than the right to hold the steering firmly. The steering wheel is also not central to the seating position i.e. it is more to the left of the seat giving it an odd feeling for starters.

To add to this: I got cramps in my RT ankle after the test drive, though i adjusted the seat well for my driving comfort.

4) The pedal angle was not very comfy, either the whole pedal has to go back inside OR the seat height should be more. I am 5 10 ish iirc.

5) The fabric floor mat (that too padded) is an absolute no no for the soft top.

6) The firewall also uses fabric material which again is going to be a rust spot if one plans to make it an offroad vehicle.

7) One of the body bedding nut was found missing at the rear wheel arch. Dont know if its a design or just missing??

8) Please atleast improve the quality of the dash! It is really gonna help in selling

[4x4addict]

Guys: I went to the dealer in Kottayam today to check out the Thar CRDe & Thar MDI. Truth be told, you will never buy the MDI if it is parked next to the CRDe. When compared to the CRDe, the MDI looks like the step child of Mahindra. It almost seems like they made it look worse that it has to in order to make the Thar CRDe look good.

I couldn't take a test drive as it was just rolled into the show room today and they were busy taping the ribbon on the hood etc. I knew that most of the salesmen in there had never seen/heard of the Thar until it rolled into the showroom today. One of them came to me confidently and told me that it has PS and AC and clamied it is the Scorpio engine. I told him it doesn't have AC and he pointed to the switches on the dash. I then made him open the hood and show me the AC compressor and evaporator. Eventually he snuck away, since he figured, I knew more about the Thar than he did.

Getting back to topic, Thar CRDe is really well put together. I don't know how many of you noticed but the soft top material, pant and general fit and finish is far better than MDI or other Invader/Major/MM range of vehicles. The top above the front cabin is extremely taught and won't flap in the wind like the older jeeps or MDI version. As Jaggu pointed out the fit and finish of the dash could be better. The glove box of the demo version wouldn't close properly.

Overall, I was very impressed with the Thar.

Now for my feedback to Mr. Behram & team.

I feel that they have done a good job in developing the Thar. However, I do strongly feel that they have strayed from the original objective in developing the Thar. Let me explain why...

1) This vehicle was meant to satisfy the needs of the off-road community. However, the focus of this vehicle has been to drive at 140+ kmph and not be effective off-road. All of off-roaders want to get to the OTR location in reasonable comfort, but that doesn't mean being able to drive at 140 kmp and be concerned about the IFS & breaking CV joints etc. In making a vehicle capable of cruising at 140 kmph, you have had to increase the cost by using a more expensive engine & chasis.

I feel that all you need to give us was the Legend with just the 90 bhp XYLO D2 engine. This way you would have given the off-road community a very capable and cheap to maintain off-road vehicle capable of crusing comfortable at about 110 kmph. I feel that jeepers would sacrifice some top speed to get a more sturdier vehicle. If you had gone this route, you could have also kept the ex-show room price to about 5.5 Lakhs i.e (70K premium over the MDI for the Xylo D2 engine and 57/53 Track and Power steering).

Once again I tell you that Thar is a fine vehicle, but I don't think it embodies the 4x4 spirit you claim in your posts. Neither do I feel it will ever be a replacement for a CL340/Classic.

What has ended up happening is that the off-road crowd is concerned about the price and the durability of the off-road hardware, especially the front diffs and suspension parts. The minivan crowd is unhappy that it doesn't look like the captiva and doesn't have seven front facing seats and four wheel disc brakes. A handful of buyers will have a smile on their face when driving at 140 kmph, but I am sorry to say that after coming to this forum for ideas, you have not delivered what most people have asked for, you have delivered what has been a priority for you, and that is driving at 140 kmph. .... on tarmac..

Since I am a big MM540/CJ fan, I will probably buy the Thar, but grudgingly and not for OTRs. I feel that you could have given us a cheaper and better alternative than the MDI...

CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE US THE MDI with 57/53 Track XYLO D2 ENGINE & POWER STEERING FOR 5.5 LAKHS? Sorry for screaming.. ;-)

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I don't think ECM needs to be reprogrammed for AC fitment. Can you please elaborate on why ECM needs to be reprogrammed for AC? Is it for the idle control when AC is switched on?

it is not for idle control. the idle governor will take care of AC demand automatically. it is mainly required for DRIVABILITY. say if you are cruising at constant 60kmph and at the same time if you switch ON the AC, it should not bring down the speed or you should not be forced to apply more accelerator.
For AC, remapping is not required as it draws a constant amount of torque and hence it is just an addition of specified torque that is demanded by the AC compressor.

You can still get the AC fixed without letting the ECM know. but this will affect the DRIVABILITY.

ECM can also switch off the AC automatically when you kick down the accelerator during overtaking. but such features are not available in THAR.

[gthang]

Apologies in advance if this sounds like a newbie question, or has been discussed already. I have gone through most of the Thar threads, which usually are some of the longest on TBhp, but do not recall reading about it.

1. Is the export version of the Thar the same mechanically as the Indian version?
2. Are the export versions this spartan on the inside?
3. Does export version have A/C factory fitted?

I am seriously contemplating a Thar as a recreational vehicle, but would like a little more refined product, and am going to wait and watch for some of our more skilled DIY members to start some mods to improve it.

[BlackRaven]

Hi,

I had a good 90 minutes and ~40 kms of test driving the Thar today.

The salesperson was extremely courteous and nice enough to get the vehicle to my office and have me play with it for a good time. it was only around 80th minute when he started getting calls from his office, did he ask me how much more time I would need. Even Honda did not give me a 90 min TD.

I had just stepped out from my Civic S MT in my office when the salesperson called me saying he is on his way. By the time I came out he was there and I really liked the stance of Thar in person. The soft top was removed and it kept turning heads almost on all roads I drove today. Felt good being in it.

It was a Red Thar CRDe with a roll cage and bull bar added. 600 km on the ODO. I was told, like other Mahindra Vehicles, Thar is driven all the way from Factory till the showroom and hence the ODO number. Don't we have transport trucks that can accommodate Jeeps in India? someone please clarify why are they doing this?

Stepping out from a Honda and stepping into a Mahindra in matter of minutes, I was apprehensive and ready for a loud mouthed, unrefined sound, but I was surprised. It showed it was a modern day diesel mill there was nothing for me to complain. and I could find a comfortable seating position to fit my 5 ft 11 bulky frame.

I drove her straight home from KR Puram to Whitefield to get the buy-in of my wifey and 3 year old daughter. Drove through all kinds of traffic, all types of roads from about just 15 ft to 100 ft wide. There was nothing I could complain from the driver seat except for the fact the the steering column did not align to the center of the drivers seat. I found that quite odd. what came to my thought was the scores of amby cab drivers who used to align themselves to the door and drive to give some more space for their passengers . well not that bad, but similar feeling.

It took some time for me to get used to flooring the clutch each time to change the gear, but once I got it, gear change was notchy and they fell just in place. Cornering was not bad and did not see much body roll from the driver's seat.

On the way back to office from home, I took a longer route and hit the outer ring road. A lot of times I did not realize that I was doing about 100. Only when I noticed the salesperson staring at the speedo did I realize the speed and felt the braking quite adequate to come back to normalcy.

What I Liked today:

-Fit and Finish. It looked so good in flesh.
-Stance
-Ease in Stop n Go City Drive
-Engine refinement, gears and brakes
-Engaging drive
-Feeling when the turbo kicks in at 2000 RPM
-Loads of torque that I miss in my civic
-Heads it turned
-I liked the Thar in Red, but the dealer has invited me to come have a look at black as well and said it was beautiful. My civic is black so if I am going for Thar, I will probably go for red.



Disliked:

-It is so tough to open the rear door. and you have to bang it to ensure proper closure
-Amby cab driver kinda seating position
-A rattling noise that came from the left door
-Dated dashboard and lack of basic gizmos
-Quality and Finish of plastic

-I did not get to test 4x4. and will wait for experts to pour in their opinion on that.


Other Information:

-In Bangalore, with the dealer I spoke, Delivery can be immediate for 2010 manufactured vehicle and have to wait till mid Jan for 2011 manufactured vehicles.

-Thar in Bangalore is indeed 6.01 L only and INR 10000 is sufficient for booking it. Unlike India Garage(Bangalore) which is charging 6.07 and INR 50000 booking fee. (Happy to be in a place that has multiple Mahindra dealers and can make a choice and not be dictated by them.)

-The salesperson was nice enough to hand over a nice glossy THAR CRDe brochure that opened to a poster size print of what we see on Thar's official gallery. Good quality poster with mouth watering pics. But in my opinion, content wise it was general marketing stuff ("Thar hates TAR" etc..) and not too many technical information apart from normal stuff. But I love it. It's already up on my wall.


My take - I liked it and so did my family. It fits my lifestyle second vehicle requirement to the most part. I have never done OTR before and hope to tag along with someone in their vehicle during the next event.

I will still wait for official review to understand about other stuff that experts know well and then decide if my cheque stays with me or goes to the dealer.

Regards

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Speedy what do you mean by useless? If it is done by professional set up, wont it be fine. I know of workshops in gulfffff who specialize at this for imports??.

A Car cannot be converted from LHD to RHD just by some Garage. Things have to be "ENGINEERED". Ask any real engineer, and he will agree!!

Originally Posted by yikes6633

Hi,
......
3) This one was most disturbing - the steering wheel is inclined i.e I will need to stretch my left hand more than the right to hold the steering firmly. The steering wheel is also not central to the seating position i.e. it is more to the left of the seat giving it an odd feeling for starters.

I know what you mean. Same thing with the bolero if you have noticed. dont worry, it is an issue in alot of cars worldwide. Last year, I was in a LAmbp Murci and it has the same problems too. So you can always claim the thar has taken inspiration from Lamborghinis.... or the other way around.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

1) This vehicle was meant to satisfy the needs of the off-road community. However, the focus of this vehicle has been to drive at 140+ kmph and not be effective off-road. All of off-roaders want to get to the OTR location in reasonable comfort, but that doesn't mean being able to drive at 140 kmp and be concerned about the IFS & breaking CV joints etc. In making a vehicle capable of cruising at 140 kmph, you have had to increase the cost by using a more expensive engine & chasis.

I feel that all you need to give us was the Legend with just the 90 bhp XYLO D2 engine. This way you would have given the off-road community a very capable and cheap to maintain off-road vehicle capable of crusing comfortable at about 110 kmph. I feel that jeepers would sacrifice some top speed to get a more sturdier vehicle. If you had gone this route, you could have also kept the ex-show room price to about 5.5 Lakhs i.e (70K premium over the MDI for the Xylo D2 engine and 57/53 Track and Power steering).

Once again I tell you that Thar is a fine vehicle, but I don't think it embodies the 4x4 spirit you claim in your posts. Neither do I feel it will ever be a replacement for a CL340/Classic.

I dont think it was intended to be a replacement to the SWB legends. I think it compliments them rather perfectly. Anyways, the Thar proved itself rather well at EXAMM and AKC so I dont see why people are questioning its credentials.



The bottom line is this. The Thar, even though most of you appear to disagree, has no other competition in todays marketplace. It looks awesome, goes like stin, and basically can take a whirlwind of abuse. What more do you want!!

[Sudarshan]

Finally discussions seem to be fully on track now about Thar ,I see a fair amount of views both praising & criticism. BUT in a very 'fair' manner .

Now I dont mind few of my posts got deleted ( containing some 'exchange' of thoughts )

I too have my worries about Thar too ,I had an on road offroad experiance for about two hours , I had seen the rolling chassis all in flesh & blood .I have inspected (visually) particular sections for which I had doubts .

Following is the Sum total .

FOR

1) being a brand new vehicle, a less probability of failures ,vehicle wont be spending much time at the mechs
2) Good road holding even on very uneven Tarmac at speeds near 100 km/h
3) Good torque & power to keep the momentum offroads
4) much much sturdy chassis then any old C section chassis ,also very high torsional strength unlike any C section chassis that improves ride both on & off roads ,so resulting in high amount of driver comfort ( no neck problems)
5) have retained the classic Jeep look sucessfully ,with modern technology
6) felt very easy to handle offroads ( comparing the 'current' Jeeps )
7) Power to weight ratio is very good compared to the current versions we drive ,so it will result in a good fuel efficiency ( coupled with diesel fuel means economy at par )

Against

1) wheel alignment wont be easy compared to the all leaf Jeeps
2) I have doubts regarding the life of the bushings,of front setup (taking into account the severe offroad use & articulation )
3) Change the dashbord , dosent look good
4) not convinced about waterproofing of electronics.
5) Driver will need to be much cautious till he gets acustomed with the vehicle as it very quickly gathers speed
6) ground clearence bellow GB crossmember ( not to ' my own satisfaction' )

I have no doubts as this vehicle has a HUGE potential & will prove itself .

Sudarshan

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

I dont think it was intended to be a replacement to the SWB legends. I think it compliments them rather perfectly. Anyways, the Thar proved itself rather well at EXAMM and AKC so I dont see why people are questioning its credentials.

Cyrus: I am not talking about doing the AKC trail or doing any trail once. We are yet to see the effects of the front suspension and front diffs after repeated off road usage it will be subject to by the off-roading community.

Again, let me be clear, I am not questioning whether Thar can complete an off road trail. YES, I know it will, I am talking about long term durability and maintenance cost of the front suspension and diff set up. Hopefully, it won't meet the same fate of the Bangalore Scorpio 4WD owners as it has 1) Manual T-Case, 2) Much lighter weight than Scorpio putting less strain on the front driveline.

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

The bottom line is this. The Thar, even though most of you appear to disagree, has no other competition in todays marketplace. It looks awesome, goes like stin, and basically can take a whirlwind of abuse. What more do you want!!

Read my post again. Thar is an excellent vehicle as lifestyle vehicle, who want to go like stink, but my point which I will repeat here is that going like stink is not the biggest priority for off-roaders. We want to cruise at a reasonable pace, but do not want to compromise off-road durability for cruisability. Regarding your point about competition, the XENON & Scorpio Getaway are the only refined double cab 4x4 life style pick ups available, but how many do you see on the road??

As, I suggested, if Mahindra can launch a version in between the really crude MDI & the CRDe for about 5.5 Lakhs ex-showroom with solid axles and a more powerful engine than the crude MDI, you will have significantly more takers for the Thar.

Do others agree with me on this point??

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Cyrus: I am not talking about doing the AKC trail or doing any trail once. We are yet to see the effects of the front suspension and front diffs after repeated off road usage it will be subject to by the off-roading community.

Again, let me be clear, I am not questioning whether Thar can complete an off road trail. YES, I know it will, I am talking about long term durability and maintenance cost of the front suspension and diff set up. Hopefully, it won't meet the same fate of the Bangalore Scorpio 4WD owners as it has 1) Manual T-Case, 2) Much lighter weight than Scorpio putting less strain on the front driveline.



Read my post again. Thar is an excellent vehicle as lifestyle vehicle, who want to go like stink, but my point which I will repeat here is that going like stink is not the biggest priority for off-roaders. We want to cruise at a reasonable pace, but do not want to compromise off-road durability for cruisability. Regarding your point about competition, the XENON & Scorpio Getaway are the only refined double cab 4x4 life style pick ups available, but how many do you see on the road??

As, I suggested, if Mahindra can launch a version in between the really crude MDI & the CRDe for about 5.5 Lakhs ex-showroom with solid axles and a more powerful engine than the crude MDI, you will have significantly more takers for the Thar.

Do others agree with me on this point??

Yes but the reason you dont see the Getaway and the xenon on the road are because they are really really really expensive. Both are above 10lakh a pop. That is exactly why there are no takers. And Im not even going to start on how terrible the xenon is to drive on a regular basis.

And the thing you said about solid axles and a slightly more powerful engine is not viable because:

1: The bigger engine will not fit well with the solid axle
2: you are basically going back in terms of technology. WHY do that if you have the tech to go forward??

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

And the thing you said about solid axles and a slightly more powerful engine is not viable because:

1: The bigger engine will not fit well with the solid axle
2: you are basically going back in terms of technology. WHY do that if you have the tech to go forward??

1) The 90 bhp XYLO D2 engine has enough clearance for the front diffs with solid axles.

2) I am asking for an off-road vehicle not a soft roader and 6 Lakhs ex-show room puts it above the limit for many off-roaders. MDI engine is too crude. I am suggesting something in between. Basically and MDI with a better engine...

The XENON & Getaway may cost 10 Lakhs, but it can be used without any further mods. Given that it has a closed cabin AC and front facing seats. Add the cost of AC hard top and front facing seats to the Thar when you compare with Xenon. Regarding your comment on the Xenon, it goes off topic, but I can tell you that the Xenon was designed as a pick up but the getaway is a bed added to the scorpio. Look at the positioning of the rear wheel in relation to the load bed and you will see how the front of the Getaway will lift uncomfortably when there is load. The full load bay sticks out behind the rear tire as the load bed was an after thought. The Xenon comes with the 2.2 VVTI and ABS. The Getaway still comes with the heavy 2.6 CRDe & no ABS. Anyway we digresss, this is the topic of a different thread.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

We are yet to see the effects of the front suspension and front diffs after repeated off road usage it will be subject to by the off-roading community.

Again, let me be clear, I am not questioning whether Thar can complete an off road trail. YES, I know it will, I am talking about long term durability and maintenance cost of the front suspension and diff set up. Hopefully, it won't meet the same fate of the Bangalore Scorpio 4WD owners as it has 1) Manual T-Case, 2) Much lighter weight than Scorpio putting less strain on the front driveline.

My +1 , I have doubts about this point too , hope what DB sir has created will clear thease doubts & wont give trouble & prove its worth. Much lighter weight & strain will surely add to durability .I also think that DB sir has taken in to consideration thease points & had already made some changes in Thar

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

And the thing you said about solid axles and a slightly more powerful engine is not viable because:

1: The bigger engine will not fit well with the solid axle

Hmm , it depends on design , there cannot be a fixed view .


Anyways I dont know why but I feel that the Thar is going to make its mark in a big way

Sudarshan

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

And the thing you said about solid axles and a slightly more powerful engine is not viable because:

1: The bigger engine will not fit well with the solid axle
2: you are basically going back in terms of technology. WHY do that if you have the tech to go forward??

Hi Cyrus,

Can you explain the above statement.

1) The NEF 2.49CRDe (mHAWK) has the same Block and Crank Case of the NEF2.49TCIC, which is exported on Bolero Camper's with Solid Axle & Leaf Spring.

2) Also in the IFS setup the Differential Pumpkin moves slightly towards the centre of the chassis, where as in a Dana 44 the Leaf Sping saddle is cast with the pumpkin, so the front differential will move towards the RHS Chassis Rail.

3) Also if any thing is like to foul it will be the Differential Pinion or the Prop-Shaft.

If you have seen the MM550XD engines, there is indentation in the crankcase to allow for such eventualities.

And technology permits us to make narrower Propeller Shafts with Longer Splines for such eventualities.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Neither

[DKG]

The way this car is configured will most certainly bring more people into the sport of offroading than any other car presently on the Indian scene today.

And going offroad is not going to be extreme for everyone. Initially its more about this car taking people places which a family sedan can't. A small percentage of this breed of enthusiasts will/may eventually warm up to the potential of experiencing some more serious offroad fun, thanks to nationwide events like MGE and others.

In time the whole game will evolve as the vehicle will find new applications. I see families getting into fishing, boating, sailing, windsurfing etc and they will use the Thar as an accessory to enable them to engage in those sports.

For any group considering themselves as purist offroaders you will have to grow to the size of 1000 units a month potential to be taken seriously by any mfg let alone M&M. And might I add that all you guys wanting a specialist focused offroader with extremely robust and very high quality components, and want to pay peanuts for it, are simply not worth the effort for any mfg !!

In the end its all about economics. What sells in numbers gets made !!