[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

No news of an A/C THAR coming soon. So it will be a dealer option for quite some time. News is that MM folks are working on creating a SoP for A/C fitment. It ain't easy in that cramped engine bay.

, from where did this come out?

Spike

PS- Khan Saab, compile it soon.

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

, from where did this come out?

Which part? the A/C THAR or the SoP?

compile it soon.

Don't worry, you won't have to wait that long as we have waited for the THAR launch

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Which part? the A/C THAR or the SoP?

Don't worry, you won't have to wait that long as we have waited for the THAR launch

Both actually!

Yeah, of course, you don't need to deal with D--S! Hope the wait will be worth it!

Spike

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by GTO

From the business perspective, M&M have made the right decision. From the perspective of MOST car buyers in India, the Thar's independent front is more suited. I continue to insist that the Thar is a winner.

@GTO. The Thar is a very refined jeep, but wouldn't a typical lifestyle buyer want AC/Hard Top/Alloys and preferably after market tyres? This will add about 1 Lakh to the 7 Lakh OTR price of the Thar. How many people are looking for an 8 Lakh lifestyle vehicle? I personally feel that the market is too minute for the Thar CRDe. If they had priced it lower by going for the Legend Platform with a better engine, it would appeal to much wider swath of buyers.

Thar OTR 7.25 Lakhs
Add Hard Top 60K
Add AC 25K
Alloys 25K
Tire upgrade from OEM Bridgestones xxxK

How many of you will buy a 8.25 Lakh for 4 seater lifestyle vehicle, raise your hands??

Originally Posted by speedy

The bulk of the buyer would use the car on tarmac or at the most dirt roads. The car is perfectly suited to drive you through effortlessly and in comfort. This car is a winner for the ones who have the money and want a hassle free experience.

Now if you ask me I would be spending 7 lakhs to buy it and then another few lakhs more to get it to my liking for offroading.

@speedy:
For seven lakhs plus you get the basic soft top with side facing seats. At the most you will use it as a runabout? How about the safety of your belongings and keeping the dust out of the interiors? You will want a hard top. This will add a about 60K to the price and whole lot of headache with the Tinker unless mahindra offers OEM version.

Add the AC? If your friend and family complains about having to sit sideways on a bench seat, you will want to change the seating configuration to front facing rear seats. This will accomodate two people at the rear and some stuff. However the entry/exit will be painful as the front seats don't flip like in the gypsy with front facing seats.

Originally Posted by DRIVEN-TWEEL

hey can anyone tell me if 4*4 di comes with the same dash as crde..?

both MDi version some with the same dash. You can buy the CRDe dash and fit it aftermarket.

@DKG & Fazalbhai:

My debate is not whether IFS & Solid axle is better for off-roading. I don't even want to get into that. My concern is from a cost of repairs perspective if you break the front CV joints, lower arm etc.

In the last OTR at Anekal, I broke my second leaf spring in the front. I drove back to bangalore to papaboosts shop and pulled out the second leafspring from one of the Army MM550s lying in yard and swapped mine out. This was done on Sunday night and I drove back to Chennai Monday morning. If I had broken some major part of the Thar front suspension/drive train. I would have to leave the Thar CRDe at the dealer utill he can source the parts. What do you think will be the cost?

Leave aside the capability. I do agree with you that IFS should suffice for most Indian OTR from a capability standpoint but think about the cost of repairs/fixes if you break stuff...

BTW TLC moved to front IFS for civilian version. But they maintained a solid axle version for heavy duty applications (Defence/UN/etc) A few civilian markets were lucky to get this fantastic LC 105. See attached picture of a TLC 105 Series. The trend of all these vehicles have been to move towards an IFS set up because mostly they are becoming mall cruisers.

The Defender & Wrangler are the last true 4x4s money can buy. Yes, they are not perfect on road, but off-road they are fantastic.

P.S. The photo of the TLC 105 series is from the ih8mud forum which is a great site for TLC owners.

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Dear Arka,

I think the Thar would easily do both the terrains as posted in your two videos.

I Agree. The First one doesnt even seem remotely difficult. Someone wrote about a Thar vs a MM540 or a That CRDe vs a That MDi test. That wouls be ideal to show which is better. But in any case, the Thar still wins!!

[chaunfa]

I booked mah thar, to be delivered end of the month.
Yes Happy B'day to you too.

[PAVAN KADAM]

I can read all the above discussion.

Lets put it this way. Is THAR worth the price.

Its a true off-roader, it can do all, its an OTR guys dream come true

BUT

Any OTR guy already has his old or neo old 4*4 machine, maybe its a Ford / willys / M&M.

Do these guys consider the option of replacing their able machines with the highly priced THAR. Add to that , expensive maintenance bills of THAR against bills that goes for a pack of groundnuts for their existing 4*4's.

THAR ain't THA(ere) yet.

[Parm]

we all are going back in circles, maybe doing doughnuts too!

well IFS set is for better on road manners and handling (going to the mall), we ALL know that!

rigid front axle is not good for on road manners, we ALL know this too!

so THAR CRDe with IFS, a lifestyle vehicle, is aimed not at OTR, but at city slickers who wants a JEEP image. thats where the sales volumes will come from!

when it comes to offroading, all (99.99%) current vehicles (99.99% rebuilt) on the OTR scene are rigid front axle vehicles (JEEPS, Gypsy, Gurkha etc) expect for the new generation 'SUVs' (fortuner, etc).

OTR guys have proved the point that IFS is not a viable option when it comes to offroading activities as IFS has its weaknesses and is an expensive option to repair compared to the live rigid axle up in the front.

we would not see most of the current owners of OTR vehicles selling their prized builds and go for CRDe!

so its all settled, and we can stop going in circles.

Thar CRDe for the city slicker and Thar DI for those who want live front rigid axle.

PS: 0.09% can wait for Jimny (PS, AC, HT) in 2011-12.

[SafeDrive]

Originally Posted by Parm

so its all settled, and we can stop going in circles.

Please don't do that. This thread is actually fun and wannabes like me are learning a lot from this.

[Cyrus43]

Dream on about the Jimny happening soon. Anyways, The reason the 99.9 persent of Off roaders have something with a solid axle is because there have been no choices in india otherwise.

[shekaran]

we would not see most of the current owners of OTR vehicles selling their prized builds and go for CRDe!
- PARM

Contrary to what PARM Sir said, there are a lot of MM540's and 550's, CJ's for sale in the teambhp classifieds. i have seen some members like sreejesh, tejas doc who had already sold their old jeeps in favour of the new thar.
i am also one person waiting to take delivery of the thar mdi (if luck prevails, a thar crde...but vitamin M in defecit).
all of us are waiting for a full road test of both thar models, plus the company assurance for fitting HT's, A/C's etc.,.
GTO, DB, Vinod, Spike Sir's, we are waiting for your proaction in this aspect, very soon. its this one most wanted road test making us all wait and watch, post all our opinions in thar threads - dreaming daily.
BTW, noone in my city(pondicherry) dealerships knows about the launch of the thar dates. DB Sir, pls announce the launch dates here soon, Thanks.
Lastly, if there was an exchange offer for our old jeeps replacing the new thar models, in M&M dealerships (of course, with a decent price quotes), THAR will become selling like hot cakes, for 2011. DB Sir, any idea for this ?

[DKG]

You know what's the favourite hang out place for all rigid axled Jeep owners ? Their mechanic ! Whenever I drive into the area where Jeeps are being rebuilt its like one big happy reunion. They are all there and their Jeeps are being rebuilt ALL THE TIME ! They are also forever buying spares for their Jeeps. Some people actually have three or four Jeeps in parts in their basements just so that when they need that part for the one onroad they have it ! What do you say to that ??? These guys buy old Jeeps for a 1 lac and end up spending 10 lakhs on spares and trips to the mechanic during the life of the Jeep.

So what reliability or unbreakablility are you guys talking about on solid axle Jeeps?

Sorry guys I think we are simply holding onto our positions without being honest.

Sharath has spent more time money and energy fixing that Jeep of his than he could possibly have ever dreamt. Jaggu is busy tinkering with his Jeep. Arka travels with his mechanic. I spent three months fiddling with mine to get it right. So did GTO and Gogi and...well the list is endless isn't it?

And it doesn't stop. Now I need to head back in to have things tightened up and the silencer seems to have a rattle from the inside.

I don't mind heading back and you know why? Coz I know I will meet all the other Jeepers there And I like the chit chatting that goes on as the Jeeps get repaired

How many Scorpio or Bolero owners look forward to reunions at the local MASS? NONE !!! Says it all doesn't it? A new car is a new car is a new car is a.....

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by shekaran

there are a lot of MM540's and 550's, CJ's for sale in the teambhp classifieds. i have seen some members like sreejesh, tejas doc already sold their old jeeps in favour of thar.

There were other reasons also, one of them being the Thar launch. However, i have still not made up my mind on the Thar. Why? You'll know in a day or two.
A few feasibility studies are being worked upon for possible mods to Thar. I should know within a month if i go ahead with it or not. Let's leave it at that.

EDIT: DKG, that's because the Scorpio and Bolero owners don't abuse their vehicles like we do. If they did, they set up camp at MASS. Just a statement here... Not pro or against Thar yet!

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Parm

when it comes to offroading, all (99.99%) current vehicles (99.99% rebuilt) on the OTR scene are rigid front axle vehicles (JEEPS, Gypsy, Gurkha etc) expect for the new generation 'SUVs' (fortuner, etc).

OTR guys have proved the point that IFS is not a viable option when it comes to offroading activities as IFS has its weaknesses and is an expensive option to repair compared to the live rigid axle up in the front

Hi Parm,

The Gurkha has IFS instead of Solid Axle.

Recently one of them in Mumbai, busted the CV Joint/Axle with Diff-Locks activated.

Guru & Allan can tell us under what situation this happened.

Regards,

Arka

[DKG]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

DKG, that's because the Scorpio and Bolero owners don't abuse their vehicles like we do. If they did, they set up camp at MASS. Just a statement here... Not pro or against Thar yet!

My point is Tejas all this harping about high maintenance is crap as the solid axle Jeeps keep getting buggered just as much. The tie rod ends wear out or the leafspring bolts keep coming loose or oil leaks develop or the headgasket blows...the list is endless

Remember if you don't bend components a wheel alignment at best costs Rs 250 ! And you guys make it sound like all of us are only straddling large boulders all the time to worry about CV joints failing. How many of us are doing that? In Aavalakonda all the Jeepers refused to go down a jagged rock trail because they felt it would be too harsh on their vehicles. So there you have it. Offroading is not about you meet a boulder you have to go over it ! You will encounter nasty stuff 10% of the time. And when you do subject your vehicle to such abuse and some wear and tear happens so what? That's the price of the sport. If you are worried about maintenance DON"T OFFROAD !!!

You abuse any vehicle you will have wear and tear. If IFS is built robust no reason why it will break. By the way if anyone thinks you can't break a solid axled Jeep I'd be happy to split their diff in two or shear the damn thing off the frame in 20 minutes by driving like a moron(its another matter that I can never abuse a vehicle like that).

IFS or no IFS you need to handle your offroader with gentleness and finesse. You rough it up, the most tough vehicle in the world will crumble

Ask any Ford or Willys MB owner why they don't offroad. They are all scared **** that their prized possesions will get buggered up. THEY ARE RIGHT ! Their prized possessions will get buggered up, Solid axle or no axle, when you offroad regularly