[shankar.balan]

Xinger. Couldnt help laughing at your post. Especially the bit about the "online" romance etc! Good one!

[GTO]

Xinger, superbly compiled opening post. I much enjoyed reading it!

- Voted for option III, primarily because I'm really attached to my Jeep. If I didn't own this Classic, a Thar would be sitting in my driveway by now.

Originally Posted by Xinger

Cons: It's never up and running for long, your mechanic spends more time under it than you do in it. And then you find that you're putting the price of a nano into it every year!

It's the owner's quest for cheap parts & bad labour that gave birth to this reputation. Believe me, with the right parts & labour, a rebuilt Jeep can be supremely reliable (my 14 year ol' Classic is proof).

However, I will accept that old Jeeps are extremely heavy on the pocket. Bring time spent + resale into the picture and a Thar could actually work out cheaper than buying + building + repairing a 20 year old Jeep.

And yes, the niggles (they are always present) can get extremely annoying. My Jeep runs fine right now, but the to-do list has about 30 items on it . If you are the type who needs everything perfect in your vehicle at all times, a Jeep isn't for you.

You could of course, wait for the Jimny, which has been in the rumors for so long that even if it is actually launched, no one will believe it.

I don't agree with the Jimny's inclusion in this poll. There is nothing to say that it will be launched this year (or that, Maruti is even contemplating it for the next five).

P.S. : Shocked to see "Thar v2" leading the poll.

P.P.S. : Even more shocked to see zero votes for Thar v1!

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

- too much power. Yes, too much. Due to the fact that the front doesn't articulate and the 4.3 dif ratio, the thar solely relies on power. You slot and power through. That's good for slush etc. But, when offroading, you want to crawl up sometimes slowly and technically. Jeepers will understand what i mean. The first obstacle of examm where we also tested the thar: here in my Classic or other CJs, it was a pleasure to go slow, decide and analyze and path of ascent and make small correction has you progress though the climb. The thar here was a no brainer. Decide exit point and punch the accelerator. even the descents are frightfully fast in the thar in dry conditions. Wet and you get suicidal.

I'll agree with this. When I did that first obstacle in Thar, I practically climbed the wall on the side thanks to the torque that got unleashed. And it lacks crawl speed too. It is not like driving a Jeep at all. That may be a good thing on road, but off-road I prefer the speed of the old-time Jeep.

I am thoroughly confused as of now. I have not cast my vote as a result.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I'll agree with this. When I did that first obstacle in Thar, I practically climbed the wall on the side thanks to the torque that got unleashed. And it lacks crawl speed too. It is not like driving a Jeep at all. That may be a good thing on road, but off-road I prefer the speed of the old-time Jeep.

To add to what i said: The fact that the turbo kicks in at 1800 rpm, is a problem. You need to rev to get into the powerband and then toooo much power is unleashed which needs to be controlled using the clutch while all the time revving the engine.

Thus the statement: With thar, you will need to relearn your OTR driving technique. Will be easier for people who have never offroaded and are just getting into it. It will also be easier for gypsy guys to switch than jeep guys comparatively IMO.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by GTO

However, I will accept that old Jeeps are extremely heavy on the pocket. Bring time spent + resale into the picture and a Thar could actually work out cheaper than buying + building + repairing a 20 year old Jeep.

Why only Jeeps , add practically every thing that is 10/15 years old & 1.5 L km old ( abuse will be plus ,this is normal )

And yes, the niggles (they are always present) can get extremely annoying. My Jeep runs fine right now, but the to-do list has about 30 items on it . If you are the type who needs everything perfect in your vehicle at all times, a Jeep isn't for you.

100% correct .This is eating me up too ( but I guess I will create another list with the new vehicle too )

Sudarshan

[gopal.prabhu1]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Completely Agree, with your views Sudarshan. However, it is a product available in the market, and does find some appeal to a segment of Consumers.


On similar lines of thought, Scorpio 4x4 isn't too great either with that 185 mm GC, and the Xenon has a huge rear overhang. The Gurkha is deliberately difficult to acquire.... But, they ARE all OPTIONS.

Sudarshan, I spent the last few hours going through some of the older off-road excursions on this forum. And there is enough and more participation from the Scorpios, Safaris, Xenons of this world. Unless the owners do something stupid, I don't see why there would be too much damage.

Agree with roy_libran on that they are all options.

I'd go for a 4x4 SUV anyday rather than a poorly built contraption that will get you looks on the road and nothing else.

[Xinger]

Originally Posted by georgev

Jimny is great, but still i like a diesel Gypsy with HT and power steering @ 6-6.5 on the road with optional AC.

Originally Posted by starter

Xinger, i would go in for a Gypsy. Pros, you've already mentioned.
For the cons, if you have 50K (which you would anyway save in comparison to Thar) you can buy yourself OME suspension kit deisgned for Gypsy and that should take care of the bad ride part.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

There could have been a few more options here:
1. Scorpio VLX 4x4
2. Safari 4x4
3. Xenon XT 4WD
4. Gurkha

If the mods see fit, they can please add these options, particularly one for a new Gypsy. Don't know how I missed that.

Originally Posted by GTO

I will accept that old Jeeps are extremely heavy on the pocket. Bring time spent + resale into the picture and a Thar could actually work out cheaper than buying + building + repairing a 20 year old Jeep.

Whoa! A new Thar work out cheaper than a restored jeep in the long run! Now that is a radical thought (but makes sense, when you think about it) Could set the cat among the pigeons!

Originally Posted by GTO

I don't agree with the Jimny's inclusion in this poll. There is nothing to say that it will be launched this year (or that, Maruti is even contemplating it for the next five).

There has been much discussion here on TBHP on an impending launch, (and there was a news item that kind of hinted at a small SUV from maruti) hence the inclusion.

Originally Posted by GTO

P.S. : Shocked to see "Thar v2" leading the poll.

P.P.S. : Even more shocked to see zero votes for Thar v1!

It really is shocking! And I think it is as a result of the review!

Originally Posted by Samurai

I'll agree with this. When I did that first obstacle in Thar, I practically climbed the wall on the side thanks to the torque that got unleashed. And it lacks crawl speed too. It is not like driving a Jeep at all. That may be a good thing on road, but off-road I prefer the speed of the old-time Jeep.

That confirms my belief that the Thar is aimed squarely at the lifestyle market, rather than the hardcore offroader (which after all, would not make sense to a manufacturer given the minuscule numbers)

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by gopal.prabhu1

Sudarshan, I spent the last few hours going through some of the older off-road excursions on this forum. And there is enough and more participation from the Scorpios, Safaris, Xenons of this world. Unless the owners do something stupid, I don't see why there would be too much damage.

Agree with roy_libran on that they are all options.

I'd go for a 4x4 SUV anyday rather than a poorly built contraption that will get you looks on the road and nothing else.

afterall thease are personal choices & perceptions ( some like to look like Rajnikant ,some like Dilip kumar & some Raj kumar and a few like me, Nana Patekar ) I cant tell whos right or whos wrong .

But IMHO Safari, Xenons & getaway are soft roaders because of their difficuilt approach & departure angles . You must have seen thease touching ground frequently . You can see a no of scorpios doing this with bumpers removed , To me a scorpio is also a soft roader . In addition all thease vehicles are steel bodied station wagons,inherently top heavy .

Sudarshan

[gopal.prabhu1]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

( some like to look like Rajnikant ,some like Dilip kumar & some Raj kumar and a few like me, Nana Patekar )

I have no idea what you mean by the above.

The point is - all SUVs, whether premium or not, are options. The Fortuner or the Endevour are as good or as bad as the Scorpio and the Safari when it comes to overhangs.

[sreejeshmp]

I think We should keep this thread for a vote and the reason, rather than keep digging the THAR.

I just needed an AC or a ready to fit parts list and step by step installation guide
I am ready to go..

- Sreejesh

[BolBolero]

I am a relative newbie to off roading, but would like to add my choice here!

I haven't voted as yet, as it is a difficult choice for me between a new Thar Mdi and restoring a Old MM540/550/CJ/Gypsy/LR/Jonga.

Thar Mdi - Pros: NGCS chassis, solid axle, reliable DI engine, scope for modifications in the future as and when the need arises.
Cons: Underpowered engine.

Rebuilt - Pros: All required modifications/ restorations can be done by a good modifier/ restorer eg. (Extreme Power). Lots of technical backup and help from all the Jeep Gurus on T-Bhp on modifying/restoring.
Cons: Lack of easy availability of NGCS chassis, Small issues may keep cropping up over a period of time. And as GTO said, the end/ recurring cost may turn out to be more than the cost of a brand new vehicle from the factory/ company!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Xinger

Whoa! A new Thar work out cheaper than a restored jeep in the long run! Now that is a radical thought (but makes sense, when you think about it) Could set the cat among the pigeons!

Not surprising. Check out Samurai's long CJ340 thread, or my Classic's rejuvenation and you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by GTO

It's the owner's quest for cheap parts & bad labour that gave birth to this reputation. Believe me, with the right parts & labour, a rebuilt Jeep can be supremely reliable (my 14 year ol' Classic is proof).

Originally Posted by GTO

However, I will accept that old Jeeps are extremely heavy on the pocket. Bring time spent + resale into the picture and a Thar could actually work out cheaper than buying + building + repairing a 20 year old Jeep.

Read the above 2 quotes separately then you will know why the second quote happened. If you had found the right person the first time, you wouldnt have made such an opinion. Again when you bought your jeep were you sure what you wanted to do with it? Samurai also was clueless and hence landed up with a high base price.

This is not the case with say a 550 build that Tejas is planning. One shot build after identifying right donor vehicle, garage and planning is very different to what we guys do with constant rebuilds. Unfortunately none of us had info or access to these info. Now thanks to TBHP all are better off.

Parts are still cheaper and will be cheaper for ol school jeeps. Please dont discount that. Take it from a workshop junkie.

Add depreciation and then you will see why you are wrong! I would say am better off spending piece meal coz am not eating into my savings/investments in one shot.

Originally Posted by GTO

And yes, the niggles (they are always present) can get extremely annoying. My Jeep runs fine right now, but the to-do list has about 30 items on it . If you are the type who needs everything perfect in your vehicle at all times, a Jeep isn't for you

This will happen to any jeep, especially if it steps out of road. So Gypsy anyday I also have my list which i had shared in public but it was matter of time that i found a great mech, and now am quite confident that i can fix it to be perfect. I still have DKG's CJ picture in mind!

If things like silencer rattle etc you are referring then that will happen to any brand new vehicle. Remember the squeaky video in TD report.

Originally Posted by GTO

I don't agree with the Jimny's inclusion in this poll. There is nothing to say that it will be launched this year (or that, Maruti is even contemplating it for the next five).

P.S. : Shocked to see "Thar v2" leading the poll.

P.P.S. : Even more shocked to see zero votes for Thar v1!

100% in agreement. I thought we will have more people who would have booked after so much of fan replies in TBHP and FB?? Or are they keeping quite or waiting to be invited??

Originally Posted by Samurai

I am thoroughly confused as of now. I have not cast my vote as a result.

Please sell your CJ at a decent price unlike Thar, i will ensure a swift sale now and no more confusion for you lol

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

It will also be easier for gypsy guys to switch than jeep guys comparatively IMO.

So what about me, i love both and drive both and owned both he he he

Originally Posted by GTO

Not surprising. Check out Samurai's long CJ340 thread, or my Classic's rejuvenation and you'll know what I'm talking about.

As i said its a very wrong comparison. Am not taking names but there are couple of very good builders now that we all know off. Anyday i would prefer them, if am doing a ground up restoration and am sure i can build a jeep like Tejas and be very happy with it at relatively cheaper investments.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

I agree with you again Jaggu.

When i started off with the Classic, i was quite clueless. Yes, i did tons of research and asked tons of questions to the gurus here; but at the end of the day what you experience for yourself counts (atleast for me). Thus, for the classic there was experimentation with different mechanics, finding the right one, diagnosing problems, buying a set of tyres and then selling them and wanting bigger ones, experiments with dashboard, power steering pulley sizes, etc etc etc. This caused me to waste a lot of money. Having said that, i still didn't loose money on the classic when i sold her. <touchwood>

Today, when i'm gonna begin my Tzar Project, i know exactly what i want (well nearly atleast). So no experimentation. I know who will do the work, what will happen in stage 1, 2 & 3.

I can confidently say that at the cost of a new gypsy/thar i can get an much much much more capable offroader with all the bells and whistles which will last long and will also have a decent resale value. And i do have team-bhp to thank. The stuff i learnt here and the friends i made have been an enormous help!

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by sreejeshmp

I just needed an AC or a ready to fit parts list and step by step installation guide
I am ready to go..

- Sreejesh

If you can manage to get info about the ECM connections that are required, rest is no bid deal for a road car. I have a feeling even ECM part is factored in the wiring/couples? Spikee can you confirm please