[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I just had the worst experience today at the IOC COCO pump at Koramangala Sony World. The attendant managed to put in 45.92 litres of diesel in my Punto(capacity 45lts), he managed 7.5 lts after cut off. Using the trip meter calculation the top up should have been at 40.5 maximum. Please beware of the pump if you are in Koramangala.

I have complained on their website, waiting to see what happens.

How much was in the tank when you went to fill up. A tank capacity of 45 probably means if you fill it to the brim, it will take about 50 litres (pipe is not included in capacity). Therefore, if you were around the reserve mark or below it, I can believe it will take that much.

Still, thanks for the note. Will help us be aware of the pump.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

How much was in the tank when you went to fill up. A tank capacity of 45 probably means if you fill it to the brim, it will take about 50 litres (pipe is not included in capacity). Therefore, if you were around the reserve mark or below it, I can believe it will take that much.

Still, thanks for the note. Will help us be aware of the pump.

The last top up was to the brim, using trip meter and l/100km calculation which is off by around 4% the maximum would have been 41. That figure has not changed anytime till today. It will never take that quantity of fuel, especially when the I didn't get even a single low fuel warning- the tank was in reserve for approximately 30km. Reserve is around 7lts.

[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The last top up was to the brim, using trip meter and l/100km calculation which is off by around 4% the maximum would have been 41. That figure has not changed anytime till today. It will never take that quantity of fuel, especially when the I didn't get even a single low fuel warning- the tank was in reserve for approximately 30km. Reserve is around 7lts.

If your calculations are correct it does not bode well for COCO pumps. I assumed there the only type of cheating they could/would do was that of diverting your attention. If the metered fuel itself is less then it is a major issue.

Why did you not ask them to do a fuel quantity test in front of your eyes. That would definitely have helped you put your mind at ease.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I just had the worst experience today at the IOC COCO pump at Koramangala Sony World. The attendant managed to put in 45.92 litres of diesel in my Punto(capacity 45lts), he managed 7.5 lts after cut off. Using the trip meter calculation the top up should have been at 40.5 maximum. Please beware of the pump if you are in Koramangala.

I have complained on their website, waiting to see what happens.

Please do not top up after the Auto cut off, its an open invitation for those morons at the bunk to cheat.

[condor]

avira_tk : The attendant managed to put in 45.92 litres of diesel in my Punto(capacity 45lts), he managed 7.5 lts after cut off. nkrishnap : Please do not top up after the Auto cut off, its an open invitation for those morons at the bunk to cheat.

Actually, this one is not necessarily cheating. I always do 6.5 - 7 liters after auto cut-off in my Ikon. I have tried this at different pumps in BLR and outside. The bunks are my regular bunks, where I have never experienced in-correct fuelling. The same bunks always do 1 liter after auto cut-off on the Sumo.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by condor

Actually, this one is not necessarily cheating. I always do 6.5 - 7 liters after auto cut-off in my Ikon. I have tried this at different pumps in BLR and outside. The bunks are my regular bunks, where I have never experienced in-correct fuelling. The same bunks always do 1 liter after auto cut-off on the Sumo.

You can put in after auto cut off, my car will not take 7litres around 2 litres is maximum, if its done slowly. I didn't give the calculations so here goes

distance travelled 640km
FE 6.1 lts/100km
calculated fuel consumed 39.04 with 5% error that will be 41

45.92 lts when the needle is not at empty is impossible. Anyways last time at that pump time to try another one.

[ramzsys]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Please do not top up after the Auto cut off, its an open invitation for those morons at the bunk to cheat.

Can you kindly explain how. I always used to do this.

[condor]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

You can put in after auto cut off, my car will not take 7litres around 2 litres is maximum, if its done slowly. I didn't give the calculations so here goes

Let us keep the calculations aside for now. My suggestion - try the same approach (filling beyond auto cuto-off, upto the top) at a few other bunks. See how much fuel goes in each time.

Btw, many bikes have a hard-coded reserve, and we have the valve to help us know EXACTLY when we are moving into reserve. Cars do not come with such hard-coded "reserve" function. The low-fuel-indicator is close, but no where as exact as in a bike.

Since cars do not have a hard-coded fuel reserve, the best approach to calculating FE is using the FE testing jig that the A.S.S will have. The next good approach to FE is a brim-to-brim method. Fuel-low-indicator to Fuel-low-indicator is not too off the mark, but still not as accurate as the first two.

Some people prefer the Auto cut-off to Auto cut-off, but I feel this has an element of doubt. I have sometimes seen the fuel dispenser stop the fuel even before the actual auto cut-off level is reached. If the dispenser can stop fuel even before (in the middle of fuelling), then it could stop even at say 90% of auto cuto-off levels.
The brim to brim approach helps to visually verify that the fuel is at the same point each time.

Since cars do not have the hard-coded "reserve" function, let us keep the "reserve" 7 liters also aside. Try the fill-to-brim, run the car, fill-to-brim approach to find how much your car will take beyond auto cut-off. Also find out the FE of your car this way.

You could say that the auto cut-off is done by the system, and hence accurate. But I cannot see for myself /verify what is happening inside the tank. The closest I can come to doing that is when the fuel is at the brim.

Remember, FE is never ever that constant. A small variation is always there, due to diff factors including weather, traffic conditions, load in vehicle, driving style etc. You may control your driving style to never change, but you cannot control the other conditions.

It is only with bikes that you can, with authority, use the reserve-to-reserve approach to calculate FE. Just because it works on bikes does not mean it will give similarly exact calculations on cars.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by condor

Let us keep the calculations aside for now. My suggestion - try the same approach (filling beyond auto cuto-off, upto the top) at a few other bunks. See how much fuel goes in each time.

.

I am not quoting your entire post but I did an refill once I reached Kerala, here are the calculations.

Distance : 623.8km
FE : 5.1L/100km
Calculated fuel required : 33.1L
Fuel put till brim 33.72Lts. Last time the fuel tank was not topped after filling 45.92 Lts. The variation is too large to be ignored and I put only full tank every time, the trip meter has a variation but its not anywhere near 10-14%. The maximum is around 5%.

[kph]

This is what has happened few min. ago to me.
The BP petrol pump at HSR layout, 27th main, No. 1 frauds they are. Cheating in the old style... The cash collector will stand at the other side of the petrol filler and will ask questions to divert your attention and the filler stops filling and reset the meter to the same amount you have asked for in a split of a second. Highly talented fellow.
Be careful!
Anyway I did not have time or mood to settle this there. But I made my point and wished them and the pump manger all the best with the stolen money. So, that was my last visit there.

[condor]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I am not quoting your entire post but I did an refill once I reached Kerala, here are the calculations.

I'll re-post the gist of my earlier message, in a different way:

x liters / 100 km is good method to use when the FE is constant. It is best used to report FE values after someone tests the FE under standard conditions.

But under day to day driving, the driving & traffic conditions keep changing, hence the x will keep varying. For daily calculations, it is better to check how much fuel (x litres) was used each time.

The method you have used (x liters /100km) is actually good to check for variances - compared against a standard value (if you can generate one for your usage).

[gopikb]

We have a new BP petrol bunk in RRNagar - Kenchenahalli main road. They started operation about 3 months ago. So far they have been pretty good. Most times I have seen the bunk owners standing right there and directing the vehicles to the free lanes for filling. Looks like they have instructed the boys also to indicate the "zero" to customer before filling. So far they have been good during my visits

We have another IOC bunk near RRNagar Arch and they are cheats.

[nandans2005]

Hey Gopi,

i stay in Kengeri satellite town. By the way, what made you rate the guys near the arch as cheats and the other as good ? what is the experience you had? Nice to have the information.

Most of the station in and around Bangalore have a measurement problem. I feel and also have proved myself that i have never got the right quantity for the money i pay each time. The fuel guage just doesnt come to the right levels unless i fill in shell stations, but shell station are expensive. Ensuring ZERO hardly matters.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by gopikb

We have a new BP petrol bunk in RRNagar - Kenchenahalli main road. They started operation about 3 months ago. So far they have been pretty good. Most times I have seen the bunk owners standing right there and directing the vehicles to the free lanes for filling. Looks like they have instructed the boys also to indicate the "zero" to customer before filling. So far they have been good during my visits

We have another IOC bunk near RRNagar Arch and they are cheats.

Yes the Indian oil pump few hundred meters before the arch is very cunning. I have been duped there too. Guys never use this pump. This is on the left side on the way to mysore and there is a ibp red pump opposite this across the road.

[Ragul]

I topped up my car at the Banaswadi IOC pump last week when the needle was hovering very low - I think about 2 to 3 ltrs left. However the bugger filled up 41.5 ltrs when my total tank capacity is only 40ltrs. Howzzat?!!

I have a suspicion the meter was not at zero. but since I paid by card - how will he extract a fast buck? It will go to the pump owner not the attendant right?

--Rahul