[Jeroen]

I am not sure if the Citroen 2CV was ever sold in India. I doubt it somehow, as this was one of the early cheap cars for the masses in Western Europe.

However, most petrol heads would be familiar with this little iconic car. To date, it still has a substantial hard core of devotees. It is also a car that brings a smile to people's faces. It is the least macho-threatening car on the road. Many Western folks of my age will have owned one or at least driven one. It has featured in many movies, the most prominent being the James Bond movie "For Your Eyes Only."

If you haven't seen that movie, have at least a look at the 2CV chase scene! It shows the 2CV's incredible corner handling.

https://youtu.be/DB9-NU7iRkw?si=GsdTq7gOCriVMOoq

The 2CV used in the movie is a 2CV6 but with the engine of a Citroen GS. These cars were not known for being fast. More about this and the 007 version later.

Some information on the 2CV, stolen from various internet sources:

The Citroën 2CV (French: deux chevaux, pronounced [dø ʃ(ə)vo], lit. "two horses", meaning "two taxable horsepower") is an economy car produced by the French company Citroën from 1948 to 1990. Introduced at the 1948 Paris Salon de l'Automobile, it has an air-cooled engine that is mounted in the front and drives the front wheels.

Conceived by Citroën Vice-President Pierre Boulanger to help motorise the large number of farmers still using horses and carts in 1930s France, the 2CV has a combination of innovative engineering and straightforward, utilitarian bodywork. The 2CV featured overall low cost of ownership, simplicity of maintenance, an easily serviced air-cooled engine (originally offering 6.6 kW, 9 hp), and minimal fuel consumption. In addition, it had been designed to cross a freshly ploughed field with a basket full of eggs on the passenger's seat without breaking them, because of the great lack of paved roads in France at the time; with a long-travel suspension system, that connects front and rear wheels, giving a very soft ride.

Often called "an umbrella on wheels", the fixed-profile convertible bodywork featured a full-width, canvas, roll-back sunroof, which accommodated oversized loads, and until 1955 even stretched to cover the car's trunk, reaching almost down to the car's rear bumper. Michelin introduced and first commercialised the revolutionary new radial tyre design with the introduction of the 2CV.

Between 1948 and 1990, more than 3.8 million 2CVs were produced, making it the world's first front-wheel drive car to become a million seller after Citroën's own earlier model, the more upmarket Traction Avant, which had become the first front-wheel drive car to sell in similar six-figure numbers. The 2CV platform spawned many variants; the 2CV and its variants are collectively known as the A-Series. Notably these include the 2CV-based delivery vans known as fourgonnettes, the Ami, the Dyane, the Acadiane, and the Mehari. In total, Citroën manufactured over 9 million of the 2CVs and its derivative models.

A 1953 technical review in Autocar described "the extraordinary ingenuity of this design, which is undoubtedly the most original since the Model T Ford". In 2011, The Globe and Mail called it a "car like no other". The motoring writer L. J. K. Setright described the 2CV as "the most intelligent application of minimalism ever to succeed as a car", and a car of "remorseless rationality".

I owned a 2CV at some point. I think it was the 3rd or 4th car I ever owned. It did not last very long, as it was so rotten when braking that the doors flew open due to the flexing of the chassis! A common problem with older 2CVs.

Many countries have their own pet name. In the Netherlands, it is eend (duck), and in Belgium geit (goat). In the UK it is known by at least three different pet names; Tin Snail, Dolly and Upside-down.


As luck would have it, there is a Citroen 2CV museum in Andijk, the Netherlands. Just around the corner from my good friend and spanner mate Peter. Those of you who follow some of my threads will have read about us and our Spideristi friends doing at least one annual Alfa Spider trip together. As luck would have it, all of us happened to be around on the last Sunday of the year. This museum opens only on the last Sunday of every month. So we decided to meet up at the museum and have lunch afterwards at Peter's place.

This museum is the private collection of Edwin Groen. His collection consist of more than 300 Eenden and also quite a few other interesting mostly French cars. I have concentrated on the 2CVs for this thread.

https://www.eendenmuseum.nl

It is really a unique collection as you will see! This is the first view as you enter the museum.



Then there are endless rows of 2CVs. Each with an unique story. Each different from the other.







It doesn't get much more basic, dash board, than a 2CV



This is a special James Bond 007 version! It is a 2CV6. Citroen provided four 2CVs for the movie. In order to capalize even more on this PR they produced this special 007 version.It is unclear how many were produced. Different sources mention different numbers. Most likely either 500 or 1000.

The colour yellow was original meant to be used for the new Charleston version, but ended up on the 007 version. New owners would find a little plastic bag with bullet hole stickers in the glove compartment!



This one is known as the compact version



A couple of images of the engine and gearbox. Everything on this engine was simple and basic. Easy to work on and by and large very reliable.







Here another pretty unique 2CV. The 4x4, but it also had two engines. notice the extra petrol tanks under the front seat with the filler gap that protrudes through the door. I think I have come across 2-3 of these in the last ten years of visiting classic car events and show. This museum has four of them!















Where else would you find the oldest surviving 2CV in the world, other than in a museum in Andijk? This one was produced in 1949. It is the 430st 2CV produced in the factory in France. The pain and interior was probably renewed in the 50/60s but the engine and gearbox are still original.

From that first production run of about 875 2CVs in 1949 about 12 have survived. Few in driveable conditions.

The museum acquired this unique 2CV on a French auction. They ended in a bidding war with no other than Michelin, but won!



This is a 2CV6 Club from 1987. I had one like this, in the same colour. It was the first 2CV suitable for lead free petrol. It had an astonishing acceleration of 59,4 second on the 0-100 km/h!!

I remember when these cars were banned from using on your driving test. These cars were so slow the examiner could not get a feel for whether you could keep up with traffic.



Endless varieties



Guys my age will remember this one. And their dads too. The ANWB is what the AA is in the UK. A national car association that also provides break down services for its members. we call it the "wegenwacht" (road watchers)

These days they drive fancy E-vans. But for a long time they drove these 2CVs.
I remember it well. In those days my parents drove a DKW-1100. One year we went on holiday. Which meant my three sisters got in the back seat and I would sit in the front on my mum's lap. No seat belts, no airbags, no crumple zone and both my parents chain smoking. My dad had a roof rack that held most of our luggage. But he had not secured it well enough. So it blew off, somewhere near Arnhem on our way to Germany. A "wegenwacht in one of these 2CVs came to the rescue. He managed to pile some of the luggage in his car. But those little cars were pretty much crammed with tools and parts. So some of the luggage went on top of my sisters. Next he drove us to a shop that sold us a new roof rack. He helped my dad install the new roof rack securely.

These wegenwacht guys are incredibly skilled in helping you out when you find yourself stranded. They know just about all brands and models of cars and have a quick fix for just about any problem.



Of course, 2CVs are pretty much indestructible and reliable in normal use. But they never did well in a crash. or like this one, a tree fell onto it. Made several newspapers!





The museum has a couple of these little alleys with shops from the 60-70s. Very nice. Including a nice collection of car models

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

the most prominent being the James Bond movie "For Your Eyes Only."

If you haven't seen that movie, have at least a look at the 2CV chase scene! It shows the 2CV's incredible corner handling.
https://Youtu.be/DB9-NU7iRkw?si=GsdTq7gOCriVMOoq

The 2CV used in the movie is a 2CV6 but with the engine of a Citroen GS. These cars were not known for being fast. More about this and the 007 version later.

This is one of my favorite car chases. Another interesting point on the Bond 2CV was that the exhaust manifold of the GS engine was cut to uneven lengths in order to sound like a 2CV.

There is also an anecdote, I read in the Readers digest, that two explorers were driving a 2CV in the Atacama desert and ran out of oil due to an oil leak so they bought some over-ripe bananas stuffed in the engine and reached somewhere.

Found an article here

Due to its low speed, it was deemed unrollable. This led to an unknowledgeable friend to try and successfully roll his car. Oh, it was actually a VW Beetle - I did say my friend was not very knowledgeable!

[Jeroen]

The 2CV was aimed at rural France. It would provide cheap reliable comfortable transport over rough little country lanes. The unique suspension made all of this possible. There is a promotional film about a 2CV carrying a basket of eggs across a freshly ploughed field. Not a single egg broke!

My friend Cees, who owns a 2CV back at his B&B in France got talking to one of the museums volunteers. He gave us a private little tour and showed us this stripped 2CV. Which really shows all the technical stuff including its suspension.



The four suspension arms are kept under tension by these spring loaded devices. Over the years they have been upgraded/modified. But the principle remains the same. You see several versions on top of the frame.



A cylinder with a pulling rod on each side. One side of the rod is connected to the suspension arm, and the other side inside the cylinder is connected to a spring-loaded piston. The piston has friction material attached. Basically the same stuff as you would find on brake shoes. The cylinder could be filled with a special kind of oil/fluid or grease.

The length of the rod determines how high a 2CV stood off the ground.



The suspension arms have friction shocks fitted on the end-rotating point. The later version also had an additional shock absorber working in tandem with the above-shownmain suspension cylinder set-up.



Some more details of the engine, gearbox and steering set-up.





The museum also has a large collection of Ami's. The Ami was supposed to fill the gap between the DS and the 2CV. In essence, its technical bit is based on the 2CV. Just a bit bigger and stronger. In France, it was sometimes referred to as the 3CV. Both 3 and 2CV also refer to the car tax bracket these cars found themselves in. So-called "fiscal horsepower". An arrangement which is still in place in France I believe. Cars are taxed on horsepower.



An other car based on the 2CV is the Mehari. It used to be very popular in tropical places. My wife grew up in Barbados W.I. In the early days when we just met (early 80s) the island was full of these. Most were rented out to tourists. Not a clever thing to drive under the tropical sun though! With the roof down you would burn badly.



Of course the 2CV had its own modern updates as well. Enter the Dyane. Modern being a relative term here. Find the differences!





As I mentioned, the museum does have some cars as well. This thread is about the 2CV. But I thought I would show a few of the other cars on display as well. As they are a bit special, for different reasons.

Who would have guessed? Batman and Robin parked their car here in Andijk!



Of course, a thread about a Dutch car museum, written by a Dutch guy will always mention DAF. The famous Dutch car and truck company. You would be excused for not knowing DAF cars. But you will know the CVT which was invented by DAF owner Huub van Dorne. The DAFs were little cars with these "variomatics" as they were known.

In those days, these DAFs were known as a woman-car. Real men would shift of course. This was before we had a sense of political correctness, let alone men seeing women as equal. Since then, many men have made their way to automatic gearboxes of course. But, and some men will hate me for saying this, it was Dutch women, often ladies of a certain, well-mature age, who first started using a car without the need to shift!



This here is a Simca Rally. I had one! It had bucket seats, a sports steering wheel. It wasn't particularly fast, but it was very easy to tune. It did well in various rallies as well. Famous Dutch rally and various F-races Jan Lammers drove one as well. I had to have one.

I did a bit of rally driving in those days. Took several courses, got my license and did several races. And crashed of course, multiple times.



Here is another interesting display with a link to India and Royal Enfield.





And some more 2CVs. NO matter where you point your camera in this museum you will have some 2CVs in the shot. Notice the hoods, bits and piece of various other cars. Citroens and other makes.



We also came across this special 2CV. It is a 2CV Federspile. Jean Federspiel was a very accomplished engineer. He pioneered various antenna techniques which were eventually mounted on the Eiffel Tower for better radio and television reception in Paris.

He also worked on a new revolutionary suspension system. He used this 2CV as a test rig. It included a hydraulic pump driven by the 9HP car engine. That would not have done the acceleration any good. But of course, this was a test set-up.





Inside the cabin, are various instruments and valves and controls. Notice the large pendulum? It was used to provide feedback on the car heeling over.







In 1955 Jean approached Citroen. But Citroen had already developed their version of this suspension system. The rest is history as they say. Citroen cornered the market for decades with their superior suspension on cars such as the DS and later SM. Nothing comes close, even today.

The original car is from 1950 and, remarkably, it was preserved like this over all those years. The museum acquired it in 2018.

Couple more Special one off 2CVs

A Mecanno model.



2CVs have been, and are still used, for all kinds of promotional activities



A rally version of a Dyane



This is the last 2CV ever produced. There is a long story to it. The owner approached Citroen years before the production was actually stopped. He insisted he wanted to purchase the last 2Cv built in France. Eventually, that is what happened in 1988.

Unfortunately, the car was stolen from him in 2012. Eventually, the car was recovered, but in a very poor state as you can see.





Amazingly, the 2CV is still around. With some 3.5 million made there are plenty left. Even though many of these cars lead a very hard life. The French are not known for taking care of their cars.

If you don't believe me, have a look at this little Grand Tour clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x44reNb0GDg&t=140s

The 2CV still lives on. Many classic car clubs around the world look after these lovely little cars. Parts availability is excellent. The 2Cv is also the basis for various kit cars, such as the Burton. Who have re-produced some of the parts as well?

The 2CV is a popular classic car to rent for a day. There are several companies here in the Netherlands alone, where you can rent one.

Sorry all in Dutch: https://www.huureendje.nl

This is the last image I shot. Which I think is also an excellent image to end this post!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by ajmat

This is one of my favorite car chases. Another interesting point on the Bond 2CV was that the exhaust manifold of the GS engine was cut to uneven lengths in order to sound like a 2CV.

There is also an anecdote, I read in the Readers digest, that two explorers were driving a 2CV in the Atacama desert and ran out of oil due to an oil leak so they bought some over-ripe bananas stuffed in the engine and reached somewhere.

Found an article here

Due to its low speed, it was deemed unrollable. This led to an unknowledgeable friend to try and successfully roll his car. Oh, it was actually a VW Beetle - I did say my friend was not very knowledgeable!

Thanks for the additional info.

It was not just the low speed, but first and foremost its unique suspension system that made it almost impossible to roll. It will heel over an incredible amount, but won’t roll. It’s a very unique driving experience. Because it is so slow and has such poor acceleration, momentum is everything. You never use the brake, you just steer into the corner and let the suspension do its trick. The first couple of times it is very unsettling. You are convinced it’s going to topple. But it simply wont!

These things are an absolute blast to drive!

Jeroen

[ajmat]

I also forgot to mention that the Escorts Group had signed a Memorandum to produce the 2CV in India but someones son was planning to produce a questionable homegrown car which never materialised so the permit raj nixed it

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The 2CV was aimed at rural France. It would provide cheap reliable comfortable transport over rough little country lanes. The unique suspension made all of this possible. There is a promotional film about a 2CV carrying a basket of eggs across a freshly ploughed field. Not a single egg broke!

Attachment 2706086

Incidentally Sir, here is a bit of Trivia - there is a whole museum devoted to Citroen alone as a Marque, in Castellane, Southern France. Castellane comes on the main Route Napoleon between Grasse the perfume Capital of the World and Grenoble, and then the Route Napoleon goes on to Lyon, the Culinary/ Gourmet Capital of the World.

I love the Route Napoleon - it is a truly beautiful road for a driving enthusiast.

(Another piece of trivia - I had a flat tyre right there in September 2019 - blighted Run flats on my rental Mini Cooper.)

[Freespirit27]

Originally Posted by ajmat

I also forgot to mention that the Escorts Group had signed a Memorandum to produce the 2CV in India but someones son was planning to produce a questionable homegrown car which never materialised so the permit raj nixed it

Bingo, that was the story I wanted to post. I remember as a kid walking around the Auto Expo at Pragati Maidan in Delhi and going around this weird and at the same time cute looking thing. It was like a cheap car for the then middle class. And under Indian conditions it would have done well like a Bolero or a Mahindra CL6 type rugged vehicle for all terrains. But we all know the dark past of Maruti is not really spoken about!

One of the articles for those interested..

https://www.motoroids.com/features/m...y-love-affair/ .

[V.Narayan]

Another absolutely delightful thread by Jeroen our very own museum expert. Loved reading the thread with those hilarious video clips thrown in for good measure. A most enjoyable way to start the morning. Trust the French to design a mechanical marvel that looks like an insect. And when in forward motion you don't know if it is rolling or hopping.

Page below from my 1974 observer Series book on cars. 28.5 bhp; 600cc! Goes to show how little you need to have a basic car to move your backside or even four backsides. Okay I admit acceleration, better load carrying etc is essential for the Indian family. But even with that I'd say 50 bhp to a max of 55 bhp is needed for our car needs. These days we drive grossly overpowered cars to assuage our egos. I stand guilty as charged.

Thank you Jeroen. As always an excellent photo essay painstakingly crafted together.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

But even with that I'd say 50 bhp to a max of 55 bhp is needed for our car needs. These days we drive grossly overpowered cars to assuage our egos. I stand guilty as charged.

Thank you!

On that note, if we would all start driving these little, light weight cars, the number of accidents would drop dramatically.

Nobody will ever attempt to overtake another car when driving a 2CV or a Fiat 500. When you drive such a flimsy little car, no acceleration, no air bags, no crumple zone, you feel extremely vulnerable!

Look at the weight as is mentioned in your book 595kg. And that’s for a Diane, the luxury version of the 2CV with a staggering 28,5HP! When your engine has so few HPs even Half HP need to be mentioned!��

And they give you great fuel fuel efficiency to boot!

Jeroen

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thank you!

On that note, if we would all start driving these little, light weight cars, the number of accidents would drop dramatically.

Nobody will ever attempt to overtake another car when driving a 2CV or a Fiat 500. When you drive such a flimsy little car, no acceleration, no air bags, no crumple zone, you feel extremely vulnerable!

Look at the weight as is mentioned in your book 595kg. And that’s for a Diane, the luxury version of the 2CV with a staggering 28,5HP! When your engine has so few HPs even Half HP need to be mentioned!��

And they give you great fuel fuel efficiency to boot!

Jeroen

I agree with you 101%. With a lower BHP there is only so much damage you can do. My father's Standard Herald was all of 34.5 BHP and I think my Premier Padmini {Fiat 1100} was similarly a staggering 40 BHP. On highways {or what passed for highways in India 30 t0 35 years ago} I'd take the Fiat to a blistering 65 kmph and the rattling made sure you knew you were approaching Mach 1.0.

Today's excess of BHP is one big contributor to accidents in India. But no one wants to listen to two old grey folks muttering between themselves.

[AMG Power]

The Citroën 2CV is set to re-enter production as a retro-styled city car! Is this the comeback of the century?



Source: Autocar

[Freespirit27]

Frankly the Beetle or Fiat 500 or the Mini retro styled have nothing of the old character except the shape. They are big and not half as appealing as the originals.
The Fiat 500 and Beetle retain a cuteness factor but the Mini could as well have been a Max!
By the render itself (and a pink one for that matter) the 2CV looks like a prop from a Bollywood retro flick set.
Maybe they should just launch a electric version of it and be done with the marketting exercise.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Freespirit27

Frankly the Beetle or Fiat 500 or the Mini retro styled have nothing of the old character except the shape. They are big and not half as appealing as the originals.
The Fiat 500 and Beetle retain a cuteness factor but the Mini could as well have been a Max!
By the render itself (and a pink one for that matter) the 2CV looks like a prop from a Bollywood retro flick set.
Maybe they should just launch a electric version of it and be done with the marketting exercise.

There is no argument on personal preference when it comes to style/design of course. I have owned an original Beetle (my very first car), original Fiat 500 and original Mini in the past. I have also owned the new Beetle and currently own the new Mini. When I was looking for my Mini the new Fiat 500 was a close second choice. I am in no doubt of mind Inwill own one at some point in time.

In all honesty Imwas never that keen on the new Beetle, but my daughter always wanted one. So I found the cheapest non running Beetle in our neighbourhood when we lived in Kansas City. Fixed it and used it for a few weeks and sold it on again.

I'm not that keen on this whole retro revival. Although for instance the current Apline A110 is one, if not the best retro design ever in my opinion. The Fiat 500 and the Mini make for good designs too. I don't agree they lack the original appeal. Originally, these were small quirky cars. Today Fiat and Mini are still small and quirky cars compared to most of main stream cars.

I can't think of any main stream launched in the least decade that I would really would want to own. All modern cars are ugly and look the same. Yes, an SUV might be practical but it is ugly, whereas the mother of all SUVs, the Jeep Cherokee is still an attractive looking car with very simple lines. It is also smaller, length and width wise, than a Ford Focus. Just taller.

Again, there is no debate on matters of style and design. The Fiat 500 and Mine stood out from the crowd when they were originally introduced.

The new Fiat 500 and the new Mini still stand out from the current crowd of unbelievable drap cars.

And my new Min is still a hoot to drive. Just like the original ones, you never brake for a corner, just flick the steering wheel!

Jeroen