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Old 10th August 2021, 10:44   #6346
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by amvj View Post
Looks like Firefox discontinued Volante and other hybrids, such as Surfelo and Miyabi.

https://www.firefoxbikes.com/bicycle...sc&order=price

Also now I see only one road bike on Firefox website.
55k and 70k for a Firefox hybrid is grossly unjust pricing. I'd easily get global brand options at that price (in a normal year).

I wonder if they had any sales to show for that price. Did you really pay in that range for your Firefox bike too? I'm assuming back then the prices were much lower.
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Old 10th August 2021, 10:52   #6347
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
55k and 70k for a Firefox hybrid is grossly unjust pricing. I'd easily get global brand options at that price (in a normal year).

I wonder if they had any sales to show for that price. Did you really pay in that range for your Firefox bike too? I'm assuming back then the prices were much lower.
Completely agree with you. That's the price a friend of mine bought his Scott Subcross for.

Personally I stop looking at an Indian offering, including the BTwin ones, past the 25k price-point

That's my mental value threshold.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. The RC 120 at 30k odd originally was my only stretch.

Now at 40k, the band has broken there too.

Last edited by ebonho : 10th August 2021 at 10:55.
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Old 10th August 2021, 11:06   #6348
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
55k and 70k for a Firefox hybrid is grossly unjust pricing. I'd easily get global brand options at that price (in a normal year).

I wonder if they had any sales to show for that price. Did you really pay in that range for your Firefox bike too? I'm assuming back then the prices were much lower.
I bought Volante for around Rs 30K ( MRP Rs:31K). Yeah, even in the Volante review I mentioned that one would easily go for far more established brands. Pricing is definitely high. That said, I am not regretting the purchase. I find the quality very good. My only gripe is the childish looking graphics.

I am sure the Miyabi, Surfelo and even Volante to some extent were a flop model for Firefox due to the price.

Last edited by amvj : 10th August 2021 at 11:24.
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Old 10th August 2021, 11:14   #6349
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Completely agree with you. That's the price a friend of mine bought his Scott Subcross for.

Personally I stop looking at an Indian offering, including the BTwin ones, past the 25k price-point

That's my mental value threshold.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. The RC 120 at 30k odd originally was my only stretch.

Now at 40k, the band has broken there too.
But when I compared the Triban RC500 at 60k for other bikes imported in that range, i came up naught for anything even close to that price with the same gizmos as a value prop...or maybe I didn't look hard enough?

Any examples of bikes with the same tech for the same price?
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Old 10th August 2021, 11:14   #6350
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

NoIt's not just Firefox but even Montra. There are actually Montra MTBs costing upward of 45k.

And road bikes that cost the same or even more.

They've actually launched an aero TT bike. With the barend shifters and all.

I saw it in the shop of a owner/riding buddy. I asked him to take it off the wall. And lifted it.

Man ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
But when I compared the Triban RC500 at 60k for other bikes imported in that range, i came up naught for anything even close to that price with the same gizmos as a value prop...or maybe I didn't look hard enough?

Any examples of bikes with the same tech for the same price?
That's famously in politics called the NOA option.

At 60k I'd pick up a thoroughbred Polygon roadie in 50K.

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 10th August 2021 at 11:20.
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Old 10th August 2021, 11:26   #6351
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

That's famously in politics called the NOA option.

At 60k I'd pick up a thoroughbred Polygon roadie in 50K.

Cheers, Doc
Lol. I would actually prefer Decathlon as a first time bike buyer.

This is what I found for even 50k (more actually 57k): https://www.cyclop.in/products/polyg...d-bicycle-2021

Similar Feature set as RC500 (67k): https://www.cyclop.in/products/polyg...d-bicycle-2021

Closest in price to similar or better feature set (65k): https://www.cyclop.in/products/convo...era-sora-r3000

Ofcourse none of them are available!

Also Triban RC500 UK List Price: 650 GBP = 67k INR
India: 60,000 INR
We're cheaper!

Last edited by Red Liner : 10th August 2021 at 11:28.
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Old 10th August 2021, 11:28   #6352
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Lol. I would actually prefer Decathlon as a first time bike buyer.

This is what I found for even 50k (more actually 57k): https://www.cyclop.in/products/polyg...d-bicycle-2021

Similar Feature set as RC500 (67k): https://www.cyclop.in/products/polyg...d-bicycle-2021

Closest in price to similar or better feature set (65k): https://www.cyclop.in/products/convo...era-sora-r3000

Ofcourse none of them are available!
Fair enough. You asked me a question and I told you what I would do.

It's important that you like your bike and like what you ride. That's the first golden principle.

The net research does not count in my book.

For me it's never about the components, or features, but the heart and soul of the bike. It's frame and it's geometry.

Last edited by ebonho : 10th August 2021 at 11:31.
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Old 10th August 2021, 12:20   #6353
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
For me it's never about the components, or features, but the heart and soul of the bike. It's frame and it's geometry.
How much importance should be given to choosing derailleurs from their price hierarchy? I have never tried anything above Alivio. I am OK with its performance. How different are the top of the line derailleurs compared to Alivio or lower ones?
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Old 10th August 2021, 12:24   #6354
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Originally Posted by papr23 View Post
How much importance should be given to choosing derailleurs from their price hierarchy? I have never tried anything above Alivio. I am OK with its performance. How different are the top of the line derailleurs compared to Alivio or lower ones?
Very marginal. As Eric said in an earlier post, the main difference is in the build and stiffness, which translates the shift crispness and speed and consistency. In the road series, marginal weight gains of a few grams. Alivio is pretty high. I think equivalent to the road 105 workhorse. I have a long cage Alivio RD on my CAAD because the stock short cage original Claris one could not clear a 32 cog. Acera I have used on my Scott Sportster. Crisp but nothing earth shattering. Deore and Deore XT and the Shadow tech is where the real good action (and price) is. And all of this is for the rear where the majority of your shifts are. For the front the difference is even less, and irrelevant/inconsequential, because how often do you really change your front ring?

Last edited by ebonho : 10th August 2021 at 12:30.
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Old 10th August 2021, 13:54   #6355
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Lol. I would actually prefer Decathlon as a first time bike buyer.
I disagree, with a caveat.

Long back, I used to argue with the doc over the merits of Decathlon vs the 'better' global brands. My point back then was the (lack of) knowledge of what you get for the higher cost from better brands which is a subjective manner considering how much one is ready to shelve and what is he/she aiming for.

For that price point, Decathlon loses relevance, and becomes more as a second/backup option. Not saying they have bad products, but they are mass products, more of a jack-of-all-trades.

How to decide? Ride the bikes. Irrespective if one is a noob or a cycling expert, riding the different cycles gives a very good view on what he/she likes. Unfortunately, the pandemic and the policies of the current government have kinda of made that option irrelevant and hence the existing players with stock are king.

As for the first time buyer, get a friend/family member/anyone to help you buy the bike. A coffee/burger/beer is probably the max you'd have to offer as a bribe. But the gains are lifetime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
For me it's never about the components, or features, but the heart and soul of the bike. It's frame and it's geometry.
+100

And that's why I keep telling people to try the bike first. Specs and prices are only half the story.
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Old 10th August 2021, 14:28   #6356
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Long back, I used to argue with the doc over the merits of Decathlon vs the 'better' global brands.
As I had explained, my side of the argument was always about the value proposition versus what was available at the time and at what cost.

Especially at the lower end and entry and pre middle tier levels. Especially for a proper road bike.

It was never my contention that Decathlon bikes were head to head with the higher end models of the established international cycle brands.

Decathlon are a giant and bring their muscle of scale to bear in pricing and support. Even the review time and space they get from Bike Radar and Cycling Weekly and Road.cc (or GCN for that matter) have a lot to do with that muscle and financial heft, whether anyone admits it or not.

I have a friend working in England (IT geek). He rides a Boardman. Then there is Ribble and Planet X. All "superstore" bikes. But probably at a level or two higher than the Decathlon ones, because of the greater specialization and focus. But again, nowhere near the size and muscle.

But a bread and butter cycle brand that does cycles and only cycles, and for decades, will always be better. And you can actually see and feel it.

And you pay for that.

Last edited by ebonho : 10th August 2021 at 14:44.
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Old 10th August 2021, 14:44   #6357
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
It's important that you like your bike and like what you ride. That's the first golden principle.
For me it's never about the components, or features, but the heart and soul of the bike. It's frame and it's geometry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
And that's why I keep telling people to try the bike first. Specs and prices are only half the story.
Completely agree with these comments. I consider myself as a novice in this area, but I can clearly see that the frame, geometry and how you feel overall riding the bike, makes a huge difference. Shifters and related bits add to that experience.


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Originally Posted by papr23 View Post
How much importance should be given to choosing derailleurs from their price hierarchy? I have never tried anything above Alivio. I am OK with its performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Very marginal. The main difference is in the build and stiffness, which translates the shift crispness and speed and consistency. In the road series, marginal weight gains of a few grams. Alivio is pretty high. I think equivalent to the road 105 workhorse. I have a long cage Alivio RD on my CAAD because the stock short cage original Claris one could not clear a 32 cog. Acera I have used on my Scott Sportster. Crisp but nothing earth shattering.
I find the Alivio on my Trek FX3 much more positive and crisper compared to the Acera on the FX2 or the Tourney that came with the Scott Sub Cross 50 I had before. With my limited knowledge/understanding I felt the shifting part was the real weak point for the Sub Cross 50.
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Old 10th August 2021, 14:56   #6358
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I consider myself as a novice in this area, but I can clearly see that the frame, geometry and how you feel overall riding the bike, makes a huge difference. Shifters and related bits add to that experience.
In a cycle, more than any other wheeled vehicle, the frame IS the vehicle.

Everything is attached to the frame.

The frame fixes your body into its operational stance, in which you do repetitive movements thousands of times, every ride, ride after ride. In exactly the same position.

The frame transmits everything from every point into you.

It is not only the chassis but also the suspension.

You can (and most long term owners usually will) change almost everything that your bike originally came with. As it ages or is damaged or simply does not work or work as well as the alternative replacement.

Except the frame.

I realise this is the same for a motorcycle or a car as well, but you sit statically on/in both of those for the most part. Unlike a cycle.

99.9 times out of 100, when you sit on bikes back to back and like one more over the rest, its the frame that's actually the one you like the best in terms of how it matches your body and ride feel at a personalised level.

The shifters, etc. is what you read on the net and convince yourself is important. Not really so ...
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Old 11th August 2021, 14:58   #6359
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https://omobikes.com/products/hampi-707

@Doc, your post #6347 below lamenting a paucity of decent, purposeful Indian hybrids: if your ACT was alloy and quite acceptable to you @13.5kg's, how about this steel one at maybe a kg more - with discs???

I've become a bit curious about this company after a friend here ordered dirt-cheap tyres (of unspecified brand/model) from their parts division that turned out to be decent stuff (new-age Ralsons at 1/2 Amazon's price).

Re: this particular model: A steel frame is a repairable, modifiable, upgradeable "lifetime" frame - and typically also a more comfortable frame as well. And 14-odd kilos is pretty respectable for a 29" (700C) 21-gear steel bike (I've got a 27.5" Suncross that weighs 22kg!!!). Omo's 7-gear version of this is 13.9kg and a couple thou cheaper, btw.

My alloy Raleigh 29er weighs near 16, albeit with a suspension fork, hydraulic brakes, and a few accessories attached... And by the time I'm done with the renovation of this secondhand bike, I'll have spent considerably more than on this new Omo.

At ₹16k some will say just spend the extra for a 3-4kg lighterTriban 100 - fair enough, but you do spend several thou more for that (if and when available) and it comes with a lot less gearing... And being that Omo sells on Amazon and/or Flipkart, on sale could be even cheaper.

Disclaimer: Haven't seen one in the flesh. Know almost nothing about them.

But the company seems to be trying hard, vs. some other generic Ludhiana makers... Good website with a decent amount of tech info, and their customer service (from my one experience) seems very responsive, polite, able to communicate and available, they picked up after only one ring. I ordered parts they said usually arrive in 10-15 days and they were already sending out next day...

Not an endorsement here... no connection with them, might be good or bad, just sayin... I'm curious.

...And as expressed earlier really hoping some Indian makers step up to the plate and start creating some highly rideable, enthusiast-friendly budget bikes of good quality that are available to the masses...

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 11th August 2021 at 15:13.
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Old 11th August 2021, 15:17   #6360
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
https://omobikes.com/products/hampi-707

@Doc, your post #6347 below lamenting a paucity of decent, purposeful Indian hybrids: if your ACT was alloy and quite acceptable to you @13.5kg's, how about this steel one at maybe a kg more - with discs???

-Eric
Why not just find a Hero Hawk or BSA Mach frame and transplant a cheap generic gear set on to it?

Both frames are proper classic road bike geometry and steel tubing.

I'd take their weight claims with a fistful of salt. The lightest steel frame in the Decathlon stable, with all their R&D and resources and manufacturing QC and tolerances, the Rockrider 300, was around 16 kilos. My 20 year old steel Hercules Top Gear MTB is around 19 kilos.

Their alloy RC100 with a steel fork at 11.5 kilos would weigh pretty much the same as the ACT 110 with a triple crank and front derailleur and shifter and cables, and 35c tyres and tubes, and a steel handlebar instead of the alloy one as well as a bulky adjustable stem instead of a single piece one. So I think the ACT 110 was a decade ahead of its time. Or that the market has simply not moved domestically in the past 10 years.

Only funny shaped frames and tube shapes. While the foreign big brand imports took the cream of the enthusiast clientele.

Posting some photos of my friend and his Hero Hawk (frame modded ... tighter rear triangle with shortened chainstays and seat stays, and a tightened fork rake) here, which he raced on around 10 years back in the Indian Cycles class ...

The Bicycles thread-img20210423wa0017.jpg

The Bicycles thread-img20210423wa0018.jpg

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Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 11th August 2021 at 15:45.
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