[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Don't forget sporting goods giant Decathlon.

Every year their offerings in the same price band offer less and less.

And then over their 1-2 year lifecycle, there is distinct price creep a thousand -fifteen hundred bucks at a time till the product effectively creeps into the next price band ... Before it's discontinued and replaced by a lower spec replacement.

A seller's market for sure.

Cheers, Doc

Haha true. Unfortunately most if not all manufacturers are doing the same.

My Cannondale Quick 5 in 2012 was priced at 18k (discounted at 12k as I bought it pre-owned 6 months old). An almost copy-cat model labeled as Quick 7 in 2020 was priced at 45k (discounted at 38k for a 2019 new model). 2.5X the price increase in ~7 years for mostly the same model with a few of of the components being lower spec in the current option.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Haha true. Unfortunately most if not all manufacturers are doing the same.

My Cannondale Quick 5 in 2012 was priced at 18k (discounted at 12k as I bought it pre-owned 6 months old). An almost copy-cat model labeled as Quick 7 in 2020 was priced at 45k (discounted at 38k for a 2019 new model). 2.5X the price increase in ~7 years for mostly the same model with a few of of the components being lower spec in the current option.

When I'd just gotten back into cycling late 2016, I had read tons about how bang for buck and brilliant a bike the Triban 3 was.

Very lightweight. French frame. Full Sora (then 2x8) groupset. And a carbon fork. All for 20k in India.

This was the bike.





The next version, was what came to India. Triban 300. A proper brifter now without the thumb button of the older Sora, but now with a steel fork replacing the beautiful carbon fork that was the talking point of the Triban 3 in that price point (unheard of around the world). I found a last remaining piece in a Decathlon in Nashik for 20k, but he would not budge on the shipping, which was coming to 5k. By special one-off delivery.



Tried a lot to patch Decathlon Wagholi to Decathlon Nashik to see if they through their normal channels could do an intra organisational transfer of unsold merchandise (it was discontinued a couple of years before that and it was a miracle that a piece, box packed, still remained somewhere unsold). But there was too much red tape. Things were not moving. And I finally shelved that plan.

Now compare both of the above to what they currently sell in the sane price bracket / road bike entry category today, the Triban RC 100.

Indian made frame. 1 x 7 Tourney ultra basic groupset, with a rocker style shifter on the flats. And a steel fork. For 26k now.



Cheers, Doc

[jimmyjagga]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Haha true. Unfortunately most if not all manufacturers are doing the same.

My Cannondale Quick 5 in 2012 was priced at 18k (discounted at 12k as I bought it pre-owned 6 months old). An almost copy-cat model labeled as Quick 7 in 2020 was priced at 45k (discounted at 38k for a 2019 new model). 2.5X the price increase in ~7 years for mostly the same model with a few of of the components being lower spec in the current option.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Don't forget sporting goods giant Decathlon.


Every year their offerings in the same price band offer less and less.

And then over their 1-2 year lifecycle, there is distinct price creep a thousand -fifteen hundred bucks at a time till the product effectively creeps into the next price band ... Before it's discontinued and replaced by a lower spec replacement.

A seller's market for sure.

Cheers, Doc

A seller’s market for sure, plus the road conditions in our country. Trek 520 till last year was selling for little under 75K, plus discounts ( pre-covid). Then came the lockdown and everyone went into cycling mode and the shops were empty of any stocks….time to jack those rates up by manufactures (trek 520 is 95K plus and talking about discount is a sin!). I talk about our road conditions, because a new market has emerged now “one bike to rule all..the Gravel” a decent gravel with 105 is in 100K plus bracket and carbon one’s are in 200K with GRX. The joke in all is there was a time ( pre covid) when we could try out most of these beauties and use our judgement, now none of them are available…you have to go by your online research and make a judgement, and yes heck even for size…for example a Scott XS (49) is equivalent to Giant (S)…that is what the World Wide Web will tell you, but the irony of buying such thing without feeling or TD takes me back to the era of arranged marriage

Such monopoly by sellers and manufacturers is more predominant in our country…
It has to stop for the pure love of sports

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by jimmyjagga

I talk about our road conditions, because a new market has emerged now “one bike to rule all..the Gravel” a decent gravel with 105 is in 100K plus bracket and carbon one’s are in 200K with GRX.

but the irony of buying such thing without feeling or TD takes me back to the era of arranged marriage

Such monopoly by sellers and manufacturers is more predominant in our country…
It has to stop for the pure love of sports

Parsing the quoted post to just highlight the relevant bits here.

A gravel bike to me personally (IF you are not racing on gravel) is a bit of jack of all and master of none.

An MTB can and will run rings around it on rougher terrain, and a road bike will run rings around it on tarmac. So it really beats me why its suddenly become so uber cool, no offense to those who love or own this type of bike. It just does not do it for me, which is why I qualified my statement by saying its my personal opinion.

As an aside, you speak about the "era of arranged marriages" as if its something that happened a long time ago, which we read about in sociocultural papers. A cross sectional poll (anonymous preferably) of any group of guys, here or elsewhere, will likely show that its still the most preferred and practiced method of getting married forever and ever more here.

The current seller's market I'm pretty certain is worldwide. I watch a LOT of cycling You Tube content, and EVERYONE is cribbing and moaning about it. That's the thing of a once in a lifetime pandemic. We get to feel smug that everyone is in the same boat, moving upstream in the same smelly creek!

Cheers, Doc

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by jimmyjagga

A seller’s market for sure, plus the road conditions in our country.
...
Such monopoly by sellers and manufacturers is more predominant in our country…

I think it's a function of many factors. While international riders like @vb-san and others can give their perspectives, what I understood overseas is the wide competition bolstered by multiple strong local manufacturers, a very good second hand market and the seasonal constraints (long winters) would determine the pricing options over the year. So even though the prices overseas have indeed gone up, seasonal discounts and clearing old wares helps in cracking good deals.


Unfortunately neither do we see a heavy influx of global brands here nor are the local manufacturers (Hero, etc.) upping the game. Our second hand market for cycles is extremely sad (there's a business idea if someone has the enthusiasm) and the result is for us to see.

I think give or take a few years, the impact of covid-sales bump will eventually (hopefully) go back to normal.

Edit: @doc the era of arranged marriages hasn't gone away but the process has undergone quite a lot of changes. On the same analogy of buying/test-riding the bikes, the couple-in-question nowadays go through several rounds to "evaluate" each other over a decent time period a.k.a. test rides before they get to the final deal

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I think it's a function of many factors. While international riders like @vb-san and others can give their perspectives, what I understood overseas is the wide competition bolstered by multiple strong local manufacturers, a very good second hand market and the seasonal constraints (long winters) would determine the pricing options over the year. So even though the prices overseas have indeed gone up, seasonal discounts and clearing old wares helps in cracking good deals.


Unfortunately neither do we see a heavy influx of global brands here nor are the local manufacturers (Hero, etc.) upping the game. Our second hand market for cycles is extremely sad (there's a business idea if someone has the enthusiasm) and the result is for us to see.

I think give or take a few years, the impact of covid-sales bump will eventually (hopefully) go back to normal.

Out here I am seeing a new concept, and its not just for cycles, but parts and consumables and components as well.

You are asked to pre-book or pre-order.

Which means you put money down, and sit on your thumb waiting. There is no other guarantee of getting what you want.

Be it cassettes or tyres. Or shoes. Or helmets. Even chains.

Cheers, Doc

[jimmyjagga]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Parsing the quoted post to just highlight the relevant bits here.

A gravel bike to me personally (IF you are not racing on gravel) is a bit of jack of all and master of none.

An MTB can and will run rings around it on rougher terrain, and a road bike will run rings around it on tarmac. So it really beats me why its suddenly become so uber cool, no offense to those who love or own this type of bike. It just does not do it for me, which is why I qualified my statement by saying its my personal opinion.

As an aside, you speak about the "era of arranged marriages" as if its something that happened a long time ago, which we read about in sociocultural papers. A cross sectional poll (anonymous preferably) of any group of guys, here or elsewhere, will likely show that its still the most preferred and practiced method of getting married forever and ever more here.

The current seller's market I'm pretty certain is worldwide. I watch a LOT of cycling You Tube content, and EVERYONE is cribbing and moaning about it. That's the thing of a once in a lifetime pandemic. We get to feel smug that everyone is in the same boat, moving upstream in the same smelly creek!

Cheers, Doc

Right on Doc the Gravel is the new Uber cool hard to get machine out there, not sure if it’s a passing fad or here to stay, like i said, there are none available on shops to try out. I hope you have had a chance to try out a gravel bike yet. You are also right on MTB and road bike functionality, but the roads here in NCR are ….off roads , or least a mix.
As for your quote on arrange marriage, i take a bow and agree…but i need to fall in love with the bike before getting it for that i need to feel it once on the shop and not pre book it with 50% down, as most of them will and should last lifetime, till one is hellbent on breaking them apart, now what and which one suits whom is a matter of personal choice.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by ebonho

You are asked to pre-book or pre-order.

I might be talking out of my rear, but my limited conversations with cycle shop owners over the year tell me that's more to do with the Covid situation + the government's recent antics of make_in_india & related bans/etc impact on supply chain.

P.s. OT conversation so I'd think I'll be resting my unsubstantiated view here

[jimmyjagga]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I might be talking out of my rear, but my limited conversations with cycle shop owners over the year tell me that's more to do with the Covid situation + the government's recent antics of make_in_india & related bans/etc impact on supply chain.

P.s. OT conversation so I'd think I'll be resting my unsubstantiated view here

I don’t think this is entirely OT, you are right slowly the few stocks ( which are not pre booked) are coming back in showroom here in NCR, and i am talking likes of Trek and Scott. Agreed it is limited, but definitely a shift from past one year.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Out here I am seeing a new concept, and its not just for cycles, but parts and consumables and components as well.

You are asked to pre-book or pre-order.

Which means you put money down, and sit on your thumb waiting. There is no other guarantee of getting what you want.

Be it cassettes or tyres. Or shoes. Or helmets. Even chains.

Cheers, Doc

Worth mentioning i ordered twice from Bike24 this year sans the wait and extra postal duty I was able to get the product in 1.5 months max. For those who are curious i ordered tyres and tubes.

Regards
Manish

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by jimmyjagga

I hope you have had a chance to try out a gravel bike yet.

but i need to fall in love with the bike before getting it for that i need to feel it once on the shop and not pre book it with 50% down, as most of them will and should last lifetime, till one is hellbent on breaking them apart, now what and which one suits whom is a matter of personal choice.

I never go off road so I've never really ridden a purpose built (geared) gravel bike (GRX etc) though I have a close friend who owns one and says its the perfect weapon for long brevets unstressed spinning. The RC 100 is the poor man's gravel bike, and I've ridden that. Its what I will likely convert to a full proper groupset were I to take a bang here and there bike into the mountains. Though to be honest, there are very few mountains left in India which are still classified as "adventure" as what we did at the turn of the century/millennium and the decade that followed. All nice roads and tunnels now.

100% agree with you on getting a feel for anything you buy. Though Amazon has really spoiled me, in collaboration with my kids. I'm personally a walk to 5 shops touchy feely sort of guy, even if I finally land up buying from the first shop I went to.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I might be talking out of my rear, but my limited conversations with cycle shop owners over the year tell me that's more to do with the Covid situation + the government's recent antics of make_in_india & related bans/etc impact on supply chain.

P.s. OT conversation so I'd think I'll be resting my unsubstantiated view here

Its actually a bit of both. The shopkeepers too are making hay while the sun shines and reducing their inventory holding cost. Not only that, they are now happily revising the prices of old stock to what the new prices are regardless of what's there on the label. Its a sellers market. If you don't buy, move aside, there is a long line waiting behind you.

Cheers, Doc

[kmadhok]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Now compare both of the above to what they currently sell in the sane price bracket / road bike entry category today, the Triban RC 100.

Indian made frame. 1 x 7 Tourney ultra basic groupset, with a rocker style shifter on the flats. And a steel fork. For 26k now.

Cheers, Doc

But doesn't that make sense if you account for inflation + the supply chain constraints?

Do folks think large companies like Decathalon (or for that matter any cycle manufacturer) would hike up prices during pandemic, or just the middle-men are the ones blowing up prices?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by kmadhok

But doesn't that make sense if you account for inflation + the supply chain constraints?

Do folks think large companies like Decathalon (or for that matter any cycle manufacturer) would hike up prices during pandemic, or just the middle-men are the ones blowing up prices?

Even the RC 120, which is the next offering in their roadie stable now, is a Indian made frame with carbon fork and 2 x 8 Microshift drivetrain. At more than 40,000 bucks (started at 28k I recall). Not to mention that these old Tribans were proper road bike geometry frames. The current ones are very relaxed endurance geometry frames. Their similar decent frames start from 70-75k now.

What middlemen? They are giving drivetrains of second rung manufacturers (price-wise definitely), cheaper own brand tyres (they used to give branded tyres earlier), and much cheaper Indian Ludhiana made frames. What else is left in a cycle?

[jimmyjagga]

Originally Posted by ebonho

What middlemen? They are giving drivetrains of second rung manufacturers (price-wise definitely), cheaper own brand tyres (they used to give branded tyres earlier), and much cheaper Indian Ludhiana made frames. What else is left in a cycle?

Plus one to this Doc, i have a 7 year old Rockrider 340 which i bought from Declathon store. It has got regular service done, and is still running on everything stock. Quality of same brand bought in this year is another story.

On another note i remember seeing a post by fellow bhpian about second hand cycles. Here in NCR if you have good networking with reputed cycle dealers, one would realise that the second hand market is thriving, it’s just that the sellers and buyers don’t want the Olx hassles and just contact these cycle dealers and leave the machines with them. And i am talking about likes of Scott, Giant and heck I have even seen a Java Siluro Disc3 6 month old going off for 47K, everything stock.

Regards

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by jimmyjagga

Plus one to this Doc, i have a 7 year old Rockrider 340 which i bought from Declathon store. It has got regular service done, and is still running on everything stock. Quality of same brand bought in this year is another story.

Bottom line is, if you are paying more then the bikes better be at least as good if not better. The trend at Decathlon has been going downwards. It's essentially becoming a big name Indian manufacturer, albeit the top one with the maximum variety and support. That French sheen is barely visible in the cycle section products at least, never mind the literature (and frame sticker) proclamations of "Designed in France". I have been significantly underwhelmed by their product lines over the past 2-3 years consecutively now. And the biggest change I've seen has been in weight (aside from the component downgrades).

[amol4184]

Did you guys see Strava's "Year in review" post that gives a nice brief of all the major milestones? Looks great! I wish they waited till 31st December though.