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Old 25th July 2021, 21:58   #31
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by goandude View Post
With what do you lube it?
I am using Squirt, same as several other riders here, like ebonho, Red Liner, Mi10 etc.

https://www.squirtcyclingproducts.co...irtchainlube/#

Quote:
What chain ring do you have?
I still have the same chain rings, from when I bought the bike, back in March this year. It is unmarked (also, its not mentioned in the website as well), but looks very similar to this model here: https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...0/FC-A070.html.

The UK Decathlon site mentions Shimano Tourney double chainring 50/34 bottom bracket for the same RC 120 model, which I believe, is same as the link above.

Quote:
If I may suggest, use paraffin wax
Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to learn about this application. 1 question however, isn't Squirt gonna do the same thing, with considerably less (I am guessing here) hassle?
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Old 25th July 2021, 22:09   #32
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by dragntailonfire View Post
I am using Squirt, same as several other riders here, like ebonho, Red Liner, Mi10 etc.

https://www.squirtcyclingproducts.co...irtchainlube/#

Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to learn about this application. 1 question however, isn't Squirt gonna do the same thing, with considerably less (I am guessing here) hassle?
Since I saw you taking so much effort to clean your chain I suggested paraffin wax. Yes it a bit more tedious than squirting squirt over it but it picks up almost no gunk, which for me is essential as I carry my bike in a bag which sits on my car's rear seat.
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Old 26th July 2021, 00:14   #33
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by dragntailonfire View Post
Had an intense cleaning session over the weekend. I finally removed the chain and went for a thorough cleaning....

Overall, this was very exhausting to do. Cleaning with acetone was tricky too, as it evaporates very fast. I plan to buy a de greaser and that chain cleaner thingy as well. I do not want to remove the chain again, for cleaning.
Out of.curiosity, why the acetone? I am not sure mine is a good method, but I generally take the chain off and soak in diesel/kerosene (which does NOT dry quickly or at all, really) overnight, followed by some brushing if required, and another quick dip. Thereafter can blow off with compressed air (if available), and maybe a secondary dip in petrol with another air blast, since that is a great solvent/ cleaner and does leave it dry if that's desired. Anyway, a pre-soak is very helpful for cleaning all sorts of parts, loosens gunk so much better. So that when it comes to the actual cleaning/ re-lubing probably not much over 15 minutes would be required, sometimes much less.

I haven't got into lubes much, I just try to use a fairly light oil like ATF or sewing machine oil (some marketed chain spray lubes are horribly gunky). But I'm not munching miles like some of you... So what's a cheap and good option, and how do you apply it? Squirt must be great, but seems expensive, more than a (basic, not high-end) new Shimano chain and cassette...

The cycling realm seems full of over-priced parts and materials, and I like to find inexpensive alternatives where I can (planning to substitute Johnson's Baby Oil in my hydraulic brakes when they next need bleeding - Shimano mineral oil seems insanely expensive, and they say the former - also mineral.oil btw -works fine...).


-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 26th July 2021 at 00:18.
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Old 26th July 2021, 00:25   #34
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Out of.curiosity, why the acetone? I am not sure mine is a good method, but I generally take the chain off and soak in diesel/kerosene (which does NOT dry quickly or at all, really) overnight, followed by some brushing if required, and another quick dip. Thereafter can blow off with compressed air (if available), and maybe a secondary dip in petrol with another air blast, since that is a great solvent/ cleaner and does leave it dry if that's desired. Anyway, a pre-soak is very helpful for cleaning all sorts of parts, loosens gunk so much better. So that when it comes to the actual cleaning/ re-lubing probably not much over 15 minutes would be required, sometimes much less.

I haven't got into lubes much, I just try to use a fairly light oil like ATF or sewing machine oil (some marketed chain spray lubes are horribly gunky). But I'm not munching miles like some of you... So what's a cheap and good option, and how do you apply it? Squirt must be great, but seems expensive, more than a (basic, not high-end) new Shimano chain and cassette...

The cycling realm seems full of over-priced parts and materials, and I like to find inexpensive alternatives where I can (planning to substitute Johnson's Baby Oil in my hydraulic brakes when they next need bleeding - Shimano mineral oil seems insanely expensive, and they say the former - also mineral.oil btw -works fine...).


-Eric
Eric Squirt is 100 bucks for the small bottle. And if like me you are careful and put just a dab on each roller individually, instead of squeezing over the chain and backpedalling like many do, then that mini bottle lasts a fairly long time. And you can go through 4 such bottles for the price of any of the standard lubes small bottles at 400 bucks.

Then again, you can simply wax bathe the chain. All you need is a small electric crock pot (hint: beauty salons use the same for their waxing wax) and a box of candles. Or paraffin blocks from the kirana dukaan.

Cheers, Doc
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Old 26th July 2021, 07:06   #35
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by dragntailonfire View Post
I am using Squirt, same as several other riders here, like ebonho, Red Liner, Mi10 etc.
Can you post a picture of your chain after a ride of say 50kms? Lets see how much gunk accumulates on that chain.

Mine had some amount of gunk, after an 80 km ride - but considering the kind of crappy conditions we ride in, i expected it. However, i ran a clean cloth over the chain and there was hardly any gunk on the cloth. So to the touch on my finger, the gunk left black marks. But the cloth did not seem to get any dirty. And the chain looks quite clean as well, and i can see the wax has stuck on to the rollers after the dry cloth run under the chain.

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-pxl_20210726_005917395.mp.jpg

What i see online is squirt does accumulate a little bit of gunk, pure wax doesn't at all, and other lubes bathe the chain in gunk. So a dry cloth run over the chain after every ride is a good idea to get rid of "surface dirt" and keep the chain looking clean on the outside.

Ps: vb san, pls have these posts moved to a dedicated bike lube thread. I have reported this post.

Also

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img20210725wa0001.jpg

Last edited by Red Liner : 26th July 2021 at 07:11.
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Old 26th July 2021, 10:17   #36
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Out of.curiosity, why the acetone?
Chiefly, availability: had an old bottle, that is used for cleaning electronic equipment. Also, the internet agreed that it is a good de greaser.

Quote:
soak in diesel/kerosene (which does NOT dry quickly or at all, really)
Acetone helps here, as it leaves no residue, and evaporates pretty fast. I was able to remove gunk very easily with a soft bristle tooth brush itself. The only issue - scrubbing has to be done very fast, else the solution will be gone before you know it.
Quote:
Squirt must be great, but seems expensive, more than a (basic, not high-end) new Shimano chain and cassette...
As doc has mentioned, I too put a single drop on each pin instead of spinning the wheel and pouring over the chain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Can you post a picture of your chain after a ride of say 50kms? Lets see how much gunk accumulates on that chain.
I went for a ride in the rain today, just under 20kms. Did not see any major gunk build up yet, I guess it is too early to see.

After the ride:
Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-post_ride_1.jpg
Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-post_ride_2.jpg

After a quick clean:
Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-post_cleaning_2.jpg
Quote:
Also
That ass-saver does absolutely no justice to its name.

In today's ride:
Ass-saver used - 1.
Asses saved - Nil.

The entire backside of my shorts and rain jacket were completely covered with dirt and mud.
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Old 26th July 2021, 10:18   #37
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Why? Doesn't it protect the spokes from getting hammered if the chain comes off?
Technically yes. But if your stop screws are set correctly, the chain can never come off. So redundant. Amateur. Ugly. Screams noob. Like reflectors in your spokes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragntailonfire View Post
I went for a ride in the rain today, just under 20kms. Did not see any major gunk build up yet, I guess it is too early to see.

That ass-saver does absolutely no justice to its name.

In today's ride:
Ass-saver used - 1.
Asses saved - Nil.

The entire backside of my shorts and rain jacket were completely covered with dirt and mud.
Yeah too early. Water is a great lubricant. Even a dry chain will be smooth in the wet and when it's raining. It's after it dries that the gunk shows and the squeaks start. Will post a photo of my dried out chain today morning after last night's dousing. I washed the bike but purposely didn't wash or touch the chain. Still experimenting.

The ass saver, unless crooked and not aligned in line perfectly over the rear wheel, really does work. The primary area it saves is the center line of your shorts and the center pocket and a tad bit above of your jersey.

When I say saved, the shorts have almost no mud, and the center pocket will have splatters, but will not be a solid cake of mud.

The rest of your jersey will have mud splatters from the mud fan thrown up byond the short saver as before.

It mainly keeps your business end protected. I'm happy with that.

Do a similar ride without the saver and compare.

Wear a light colored jersey.

Last edited by ebonho : 26th July 2021 at 10:30.
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Old 26th July 2021, 10:51   #38
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragntailonfire View Post


I went for a ride in the rain today, just under 20kms. Did not see any major gunk build up yet, I guess it is too early to see.
Wipe your finger over the chain now and take a photo and post here.

The cloth i used to dry clean the chain after my ride
Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-pxl_20210726_052402882.mp.jpg

Finger wipe test the next morning
Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-pxl_20210726_052428914.mp.jpg

Why aren't all these posts still not moved to a new thread?

Last edited by Red Liner : 26th July 2021 at 10:56.
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Old 26th July 2021, 13:46   #39
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Default Drivetrain / Chain Care, Cleaning and Lubrication

Today morning I hear knocking in my rear wheel. I think its the main hub bearings, probably due to over-aggressive on-bike degreasing that I did recently for the chain and the rear derailleur and freewheel. Some of the WD40/Vim/Water must have gotten inside (these are old ordinary hubs with ball bearings and not the sealed bearing type) and stripped away the grease.

So ditched the morning ride, loaded the ACT into my Storme and drove to hand her over to my mechanic for some TLC. Will cover the needed miles at night instead, like yesterday. Mech thinks its the freewheel bearings and not the wheel hub. Anyways, he knows best.

This is the dried out chain the next morning of a 70 km heavy rain ride on the highway. Bike washed down with water. Chain not touched.

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_115718.jpg

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_115737.jpg

This is my finger with a swipe over the untouched chain. Dry flaky waxy lines. Powdery. Not sticky at all !

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_115803.jpg

And this is my finger on the steering after simply rubbing the black off. No cloth. You can imagine how a wet lube streak would spread and stick on tenaciously in its place ! I'm super happy man. Even with a sick bike.

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_121406.jpg

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by vb-san : 26th July 2021 at 17:44. Reason: First line moved to the opening post
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Old 26th July 2021, 18:14   #40
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Wipe your finger over the chain now and take a photo and post here.
Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-20210726_163625.jpg

These are dry and non-sticky and rubbed off easily from the finger. I am slightly disappointed by this. I imagined seeing grayish wax on rubbing the chain. Seems like it's going to be covered in gunk after few more rides.
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Old 26th July 2021, 18:31   #41
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Default re: Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication

Yes, this is the right way to test if the Wax is doing its job.

Now, that I have got superficial gunk out of the way on my chain, my next ride this weekend, we shall see how much gunk makes a reappearance. I have a feeling this first round of gunk we all see is because of the "over-application" of wax the first time around, which then has dry dirt kind of cling on to it.

I do not see this dirt making its way to the inside of the rollers and between chain links. Because all I did was use a dry cloth and run it on the outside of the chain and back pedal. Hardly a cleaning job. On the other hand, traditional lube will stick everywhere on the inside of the chain and the only way to clean that slop off is to degrease.

Second, this gunk was not very greasy. It was more waxy. Grease will stick to your hands. The waxy dirt will wipe off very easily. These are the critical points.

Now, to continue riding, and stay off the wax application until maybe another 300-400 kms. Lets see how well this does in the dry and if the gears continue shifting smoothly. I can still see a waxy application on the rollers which is where the lubrication needs to be. That is the part where the chain makes contact with the sprocket and that is the key friction reducer element.

So this is key:
1. Full deep cleaning
2. Apply 2-3 rounds of Squirt allowing a full drying period between applications
3. Ride whatever kms. Exposure and chain movement is important. Get that wax everywhere.
4. Wipe off superficial dirt and excess chain wax with dry cloth. No deep cleaning.
5. Continue riding and wiping off.
6. Reapply wax when the time is right - this time a single minimal application should do the trick.
7. Hot water bath + brush to remove everything "only" if you see the need or have ridden in terrible conditions. Maybe every 1000 kms?
8. No more degreaser, kerosene, ever again.

lets see how this goes. Clock's on.

Dragon, dry, non sticky, easily wiped off from finger: That is exactly what should happen. And you're on the right track. Wax is counter intuitive to how "lube" traditionally works. Get that out of your head and as long s your gears shift smooth, little dirt accumulates, and your chain doesn't squeak, you're golden.

Last edited by Red Liner : 26th July 2021 at 18:32.
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Old 26th July 2021, 18:35   #42
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Default Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by dragntailonfire View Post
Attachment 2184064

These are dry and non-sticky and rubbed off easily from the finger. I am slightly disappointed by this. I imagined seeing grayish wax on rubbing the chain. Seems like it's going to be covered in gunk after few more rides.
Don't read too much into it. Squirt official literature itself says that on road use expect to see some black streaks because of external contamination with rubber dust from the tarmac and tyres. But that's dry and flakes and falls off. Does not form the grinding paste between the rollers and pins like even one wet ride with wet lube does.

Also remember, this is in the west where things are spic n span clean usually. Here we have mud and slush and gravel and sand and grit and industrial smoke and black diesel smoke and particulate matter 3 to 5 times the WHO hazard limits. This much is nothing. Especially in and after a wet ride.

Last edited by ebonho : 26th July 2021 at 18:55.
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Old 26th July 2021, 19:29   #43
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Default re: Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Now, to continue riding, and stay off the wax application until maybe another 300-400 kms. Lets see how well this does in the dry and if the gears continue shifting smoothly. I can still see a waxy application on the rollers which is where the lubrication needs to be. That is the part where the chain makes contact with the sprocket and that is the key friction reducer element.golden.
More likely till the chain tells you (either by sound or feel or both) that it needs re-lubing. Most sources (including official literature recommendations) say 150 miles or 240 kms. That means someone like me might need to relube it one a week, even if you stretch the interval.

The actual frictional losses happen between the pins and the rollers of the chain and not the roller sprocket interface. That's why you can wipe the chain clean of any trace of lube (wet or dry) and have no effect on the rolling. And this is where the wax buildup of successive applications are expected to improve rolling after the initial deep clean and first application.

Quote:
this is key:

7. Hot water bath + brush to remove everything "only" if you see the need or have ridden in terrible conditions. Maybe every 1000 kms?
For the above reason (additive wax buildup between pin and roller, where it's actually needed) I am not convinced the above is the right way to go. Hot water will simply melt away and remove the precious built up wax similar to how degreasers penetrate that space and strip wet lube. In fact, that's how you strip a waxed chain of old wax, by boiling it in boiling water. I'm actually not even convinced about using a simple household degreaser like Vim for the same reason.

Room temperature water and car shampoo during the full bicycle wash are probably as far as I will go at intervals, with dry cloth rub downs in between.

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 26th July 2021 at 19:32.
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Old 26th July 2021, 20:29   #44
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Default re: Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication

First wipe-down, 70 km ...

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_202636.jpg

No dork disc

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_170357.jpg

Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication-img_20210726_203158.jpg

Last edited by ebonho : 26th July 2021 at 20:39.
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Old 27th July 2021, 12:54   #45
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Default Re: Bicycle drivetrain / chain care, cleaning & lubrication

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

No dork disc
But I do see a disc on the chain ring. Not sure if is called dork disc. Why do you need it on front chain ring if you advise to remove it from cassette?
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