[Axe77]

I’m a big fan of used vehicles as well, where appropriate, and while I don’t mean to sound pedantic but here are some counter - perspectives to the specific points you’ve made below.

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

Not so obvious advantage #17
No waiting period. You buy what you see.
I hate waiting periods, no matter how small they are.

Debatable. You may still need to wait for the right used car without knowing when you’ll find one and whether it’ll be at an agreeable price. In some sense, there is more uncertainty in this process. At least with a new car, barring a few extreme exceptions, you may have some line of sight as to when you might expect delivery.

Not so obvious advantage #19
No claim bonus. If you got a car that has unutilised insurance from its previous owner, you get this benefit when you transfer the NCB to your new policy.

To the best of my knowledge, this is just plain incorrect. The NCB bonus only belongs to the insured party, and does not transfer with the car. Regardless of whether the previous owner transferred the benefit to some other vehicle or not, if the last insurance policy had an NCB benefit, you will need to pay that amount (pro rated to remaining period of the insurance year) at the time of transferring insurance to your name.

Not so obvious advantage #20
You can solve many things DIY by finding issues, root causes and solutions on threads on Teambhp. For example, I knew how to overcome hesitation on my Tata Safari even before I bought it. It is related to EGR and one has to take the car at 3000 or above rpms for a few minutes. This was not even known to Tata engineers and they solved it after the issues started cropping up. On a new car, one has to wait for a few years until this info gets public!

I think what you’re referring to is a newly launched car only here, not a new car per se. A new car purchased need not be a newly launched car.

Not so obvious advantage #21
In some cases, you end up paying less taxes.
…
If someone changed the clutch plate when the rate was 12% and you got the car. You don't have to get it changed at the rate of 28% now.

Equally, if he was on the verge of needing a clutch plate change but hadn’t done it, you need to pay for a brand new clutch plate (with prevailing rate GST). Can go either way no?

Not so obvious advantage #22
You don't have to visit the RTO for vehicle verification, chassis imprints etc etc. You just go and transfer the ownership. Hassle free transfer, even the car is not needed.

I don’t understand what you mean here. I don’t know anyone who needs to visit the RTO to buy a new car either. You pay for the car, you get delivery at the showroom. The RC gets mailed home a few weeks or more later. Its that simple!

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Debatable. You may still need to wait for the right used car without knowing when you’ll find one and whether it’ll be at an agreeable price.

I think what you’re referring to is a newly launched car only here, not a new car per se. A new car purchased need not be a newly launched car.


Equally, if he was on the verge of needing a clutch plate change but hadn’t done it, you need to pay for a brand new clutch plate (with prevailing rate GST). Can go either way no?


I don’t understand what you mean here. I don’t know anyone who needs to visit the RTO to buy a new car either. You pay for the car, you get delivery at the showroom. The RC gets mailed home a few weeks or more later. Its that simple!

I agree with your point on NCB, I was of the opinion that if you are getting ownership change with an active policy from the same insurer, you may get NCB transferred also. Haven't bought a used car(or any car for that matter) in sometime. This could be incorrect.

Regarding RTO visit, different RTO may have different rules.
In RTOs of Hyderabad, you had to go for a live photograph even if you are the second owner (ownership change). In case of a new car owner, one has to take the car along for Chasis imprints etc. Hence, double the effort.

For all other replies, it is purely "scenario planning" approach you are taking to counter the advantage.

Let me take the same approach for some of the replies and then we will try to apply it to the initial list on page 1.

"Waiting for the right used car, hence no waiting period is not an advantage"
People wait for new cars as well, in certain scenarios for years. Some are delaying the new car purchase for EV to launch; or for EV to establish; some have waited for BS 6 to launch etc etc.
To compare like vs like, you see a new car ad in newspaper and an old car ad in the same newspaper. You like both of the cars. Which one can you bring back home is the one that has the advantage (of course in this scenario).

Second point above- Yes, I am talking of the scenario of newly launched car.

Third point above- Yes, because the other risk is already there. In an old car any part can fail anytime. This is the risk you have already taken for which the cost is low. Now, if someone has replaced a part that is cost intensive already, you get the advantage. I proactively replaced my i10s tyre and had to sell it within 6 months. I didn't get any advantage of price because of those tyres, but the new owner got 4 Michelin XM2, which is an advantage for him. Considering the tyre price now, after dollar rate and inflation, he actually got a huge benefit.

Now let us take some scenario planning approach in the original list for the first few points, bolded (I can do it for every point, but it will take a lot of time)

Originally Posted by GTO

not-so-obvious advantage #1
Attachment 1581872[/center]
You can REDLINE from day 1! No need to baby the car, no need to run it in

yes, break-in period is over, but we haven't looked at the condition of all the car parts. In a used car, which was not kept well, or which has undergone critical component replacement recently, redlining is dangerous. We cannot redline it until we are sure about the car, the brakes may be about to fail etc. Hence, redlining from Day 1 is not recommended

[center]not-so-obvious advantage #2
Remember how you winced when your shiny new car got its first scratch?[/i] You won't with a pre-worshipped ride.

It is debatable. People buy cars with their hard earned money and not everyone is willing to accept the dent or scratch in the car he/she bought recently

[center]not-so-obvious advantage #3
Don't worry about the ever increasing excise duties, infrastructure cess etc. announced by our FM...

Not at all true. If GST rises, price of parts rises or cess on labour etc are increased; it is the second owner who is at a great loss. Used cars are more prone to failures, and the second owner has to bear the brunt of all these tax/cess increases. The first owner enjoyed the same part at a lower cost

To conclude, if we take the scenario planning approach, every advantage is debatable. We have to see - what is the advantage possible. The reader has to make a judgement for his situation, whether it applies to him and empower him to decide better: A used safe/luxury car or another new car with the new fresh pleasantly smelling interiors?

A statement that I make to counter some of my friends who do not like my used car approach and say how can you sit in a car which was driven by a driver or God knows who.

"If you can happily and excitedly sit on a shared plane for 20 hours along with hundred other people while travelling to US, you can very well do that on a car (that you bought with your money) for a month. After that, it's your sweat on the seat! "

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

Regarding RTO visit, different RTO may have different rules.
In RTOs of Hyderabad, you had to go for a live photograph even if you are the second owner (ownership change). In case of a new car owner, one has to take the car along for Chasis imprints etc. Hence, double the effort.

I wasn’t aware there are other RTOs that require a personal visit from the buyer. This is news to me and I stand corrected. Unless new car requires “two” visits vs only “one” for a used car, I’d imagine they’re on ‘comparable’ footing though.

On the rest of the post, no comments.

Cheers.

[BNG-motorhead]

Should I go for it?

Getting a 1.2 lac driven 2015 Skoda Octavia 1.8 AT TSI Petrol for 8L in Bangalore. Second owner, who bought it at 55K in 2018 and is in my society. I am yet to check the service records but current owner claims it is serviced at Skoda and I can have a look. Recent work history he told me was complete repair of the engine cooling system. I am guess it must be the water pump failure.

What are the dangers of owning a ~8yr old Skoda TSI AT?
Should I expect some heavy maintenance bills?
What should I look for to ensure?

I am looking for pre-loved automatic cars in Bangalore and don't want to break the bank with a new car.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by BNG-motorhead

Should I go for it?

What are the dangers of owning a ~8yr old Skoda TSI AT?
Should I expect some heavy maintenance bills?
What should I look for to ensure?

Apart from the obvious wear and tear issues such as suspension, mounts, other rubber components that degrade over time, belts, etc. the biggest danger is the DQ200 gearbox!
Please check if the gearbox has been replaced recently or else you there's a good chance may be looking at a gearbox replacement during your ownership period. Heck, even if it has been replaced recently you could face issues!

The second being the typical European AC performance which doesnt work as reliably as the Japs, and third being ABS sensors which fail intermittently on VAGs.

I would personally avoid this one. For a fun to drive used automatic - The Rapid / Vento 1.0TSi, Jetta/Octavia 2.0TDi would be my picks. The latter options will be older and of course more expensive to maintain.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Whilst Rs.4k-ish seems like a lot of money for a small component, it is not much in the general picture of an 8-lakh car. My 2014 Polo has had two replaced in its lifetime. Not a deal breaker.

Timing belt and cooling pump? I forget the prescribed mileage, might be 1.5 lack or 8 years, but with that mileage I'd like it to have a new set.

[BNG-motorhead]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Whilst Rs.4k-ish seems like a lot of money for a small component, it is not much in the general picture of an 8-lakh car. My 2014 Polo has had two replaced in its lifetime. Not a deal breaker.

Timing belt and cooling pump? I forget the prescribed mileage, might be 1.5 lack or 8 years, but with that mileage I'd like it to have a new set.

Agree! Have experience with replacing the water pump on my car as well, its a given for VAG cars. How about TSI maintenance.. like clutch or other known risks

[BNG-motorhead]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Apart from the obvious wear and tear issues such as suspension, mounts, other rubber components that degrade over time, belts, etc. the biggest danger is the DQ200 gearbox!
Please check if the gearbox has been replaced recently or else you there's a good chance may be looking at a gearbox replacement during your ownership period. Heck, even if it has been replaced recently you could face issues!

The second being the typical European AC performance which doesnt work as reliably as the Japs, and third being ABS sensors which fail intermittently on VAGs.

I would personally avoid this one. For a fun to drive used automatic - The Rapid / Vento 1.0TSi, Jetta/Octavia 2.0TDi would be my picks. The latter options will be older and of course more expensive to maintain.

I have no knowledge of the DQ200, what are the risks? And how about the price point? Considering I will be the 3rd owner

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by BNG-motorhead

I have no knowledge of the DQ200, what are the risks? And how about the price point? Considering I will be the 3rd owner

There is a ton of material on the DQ200 gearbox failures on team bhp and even online. Replacement is around 2-2.5L or so it seems.

Price point I cannot comment on as prices down south don't have the same rationale seen elsewhere in the country.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by BNG-motorhead

Should I go for it?

Getting a 1.2 lac driven 2015 Skoda Octavia 1.8 AT TSI Petrol for 8L in Bangalore. Second owner, who bought it at 55K in 2018 and is in my society. I am yet to check the service records but current owner claims it is serviced at Skoda and I can have a look. Recent work history he told me was complete repair of the engine cooling system. I am guess it must be the water pump failure.

What are the dangers of owning a ~8yr old Skoda TSI AT?
Should I expect some heavy maintenance bills?
What should I look for to ensure?

I am looking for pre-loved automatic cars in Bangalore and don't want to break the bank with a new car.

I am sharing some inputs here as a former Skoda owner. I sold mine at 8 years and 50000kms and had done all the comprehensive preventive maintenance before selling it. And I bought a 7.5 year old low run Mini Cooper as its replacement, and I had to perform a number of maintenance measures on that, both disaster and preventive. And yes, this has cost me a pretty penny.

The one you are considering is a well used car then. Normal logic dictates that low mileage cars are better than well used cars.

This might be partially true only because we are operating in Indian conditions, but I would not worry too much about it if the vehicle in question has been well looked after. Note that there is a distinction I am making between well used and high mileage cars.

Now if a car has done only 300-6000kms per annum thats typical of a working executive who just uses it for commuting. This also means largely cuty traffic and that does put some strain on the AT system. Heat buildup and all. Whereas a car like the one you are talking about has done 15000-16000 kms per annum which means its really been well used. And it has probably had more than a few good highway runs. This is perfectly fine! It is almost 2023 so the car is between 7 and 8 years old.

It is better to have a well used car which is of this age than a really low mileage car at this age. The reason is that the natural process of ageing of all rubber, plastic and even metal components dont spare any car, whether well used or unused. But a well used car will at least be ‘limbered up’ vis a vis an unused one.

If the vehicle does have a comprehensive history and they have maintained it well including all timely oil changes and everything, then it is a good buy. Its just that the price is a bit high. See if you can negotiate a little. But then on the other hand all prices of all cars, new or used, have been driven up by the pandemic and Bangalore is notorious for high prices too.

8 year old Skoda’s will typically need their timing chains and water pumps changed. Cars that have been well used, will require their suspension systems, dampers, lower arms, tie rod ends and all thoroughly checked and changed wherever necessary.

Battery would certainly have been changed once before and will be up for replacement soon. Tyres ought to have been changed atleast twice so far and may be needed now. Air conditioning system will need a thorough check and overhaul. Blower, AC Coils, AC Gas etc. I would definitely recommend checking the state of the Ignition coils and the spark plugs considering the petrol we get in India and depending on how diligent the previous chaps have been in their oil changes.

I would also suggest thorough draining of the entire ATF Fluid and replacing with fresh fluid in toto. Don't believe the nonsense the service chaps spew about Lifetime Fluid. The brake rotors must have been skimmed at least once before and quite possibly changed too. But with 1.2 lac kms now run, it most probably will be necessary to change them again along with the brake pads and sensors and other bits and pieces.

So in a nutshell, if you buy it now for 8 lacs, you can be reasonably sure that you will need another 2.5 to 3 lacs for some of the above more urgent works such as Timing Chain and Water Pump and Battery and tyres and brake rotors and all. I am reasonably sure another 1.5 to 2 lacs will be needed for a complete suspension overhaul within the next 6 months to 1 year after purchase. So keep a budget of 4 to 5 lacs available for various aspects of maintenance.

I haven't considered that anything may be amiss with any electronics. While these cars are largely very robust, with age, some of these things can give trouble. For example, even if one LED light in the dashboard display were to fade for whatever reason, the entire dashboard display unit will need to be changed.

I am placing some o these above pointers and estimates basis my own experience and I am also considering all this to be done at an FNG and not at an Authorised garage where the labour will be charged higher and there will be a greater propensity to change a greater number of parts, even though some of those parts will have some life left in them.

If you do buy it, I can highly recommend Aeon Motor Works in Electronic City, as a first class FNG for European cars, again based entirely on my personal experience.

[BNG-motorhead]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I am sharing some inputs here as a former Skoda owner. I sold mine at 8 years and 50000kms and had done all the comprehensive preventive maintenance before selling it. And I bought a 7.5 year old low run Mini Cooper as its replacement, and I had to perform a number of maintenance measures on that, both disaster and preventive. And yes, this has cost me a pretty penny.

The one you are considering is a well used car then. Normal logic dictates that low mileage cars are better than well used cars.

This might be partially true only because we are operating in Indian conditions, but I would not worry too much about it if the vehicle in question has been well looked after. Note that there is a distinction I am making between well used and high mileage cars.

Now if a car has done only 300-6000kms per annum thats typical of a working executive who just uses it for commuting. This also means largely cuty traffic and that does put some strain on the AT system. Heat buildup and all. Whereas a car like the one you are talking about has done 15000-16000 kms per annum which means its really been well used. And it has probably had more than a few good highway runs. This is perfectly fine! It is almost 2023 so the car is between 7 and 8 years old.

It is better to have a well used car which is of this age than a really low mileage car at this age. The reason is that the natural process of ageing of all rubber, plastic and even metal components dont spare any car, whether well used or unused. But a well used car will at least be ‘limbered up’ vis a vis an unused one.

If the vehicle does have a comprehensive history and they have maintained it well including all timely oil changes and everything, then it is a good buy. Its just that the price is a bit high. See if you can negotiate a little. But then on the other hand all prices of all cars, new or used, have been driven up by the pandemic and Bangalore is notorious for high prices too.

8 year old Skoda’s will typically need their timing chains and water pumps changed. Cars that have been well used, will require their suspension systems, dampers, lower arms, tie rod ends and all thoroughly checked and changed wherever necessary.

Battery would certainly have been changed once before and will be up for replacement soon. Tyres ought to have been changed atleast twice so far and may be needed now. Air conditioning system will need a thorough check and overhaul. Blower, AC Coils, AC Gas etc. I would definitely recommend checking the state of the Ignition coils and the spark plugs considering the petrol we get in India and depending on how diligent the previous chaps have been in their oil changes.

I would also suggest thorough draining of the entire ATF Fluid and replacing with fresh fluid in toto. Don't believe the nonsense the service chaps spew about Lifetime Fluid. The brake rotors must have been skimmed at least once before and quite possibly changed too. But with 1.2 lac kms now run, it most probably will be necessary to change them again along with the brake pads and sensors and other bits and pieces.

So in a nutshell, if you buy it now for 8 lacs, you can be reasonably sure that you will need another 2.5 to 3 lacs for some of the above more urgent works such as Timing Chain and Water Pump and Battery and tyres and brake rotors and all. I am reasonably sure another 1.5 to 2 lacs will be needed for a complete suspension overhaul within the next 6 months to 1 year after purchase. So keep a budget of 4 to 5 lacs available for various aspects of maintenance.

I haven't considered that anything may be amiss with any electronics. While these cars are largely very robust, with age, some of these things can give trouble. For example, even if one LED light in the dashboard display were to fade for whatever reason, the entire dashboard display unit will need to be changed.

I am placing some o these above pointers and estimates basis my own experience and I am also considering all this to be done at an FNG and not at an Authorised garage where the labour will be charged higher and there will be a greater propensity to change a greater number of parts, even though some of those parts will have some life left in them.

If you do buy it, I can highly recommend Aeon Motor Works in Electronic City, as a first class FNG for European cars, again based entirely on my personal experience.

Thanks a lot for the detailed eval. I will need assurance and that comes at about 8L plus 5L totalling to 13 if I want peace of mind (Considering seller doesnt nego) Aeon is indeed a great FNG! Know them through my network.

So it boils down to-
Should I spend the money and the mindspace on this?

At ~13L my options explode in the new and used car market.

I was prepared for ~5L plus another 1L for repairs, but clearly this is not holding true.

[BNG-motorhead]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I bought a 7.5 year old low run Mini Cooper as its replacement, and I had to perform a number of maintenance measures on that, both disaster and preventive. And yes, this has cost me a pretty penny.

May I ask how did you go about this? I am ok to invest time and money if I get to experience a cooper.

Dealers in bangalore dont inspire confidence and its tough to catch pre-loved big brand cars directly from owners.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by BNG-motorhead

May I ask how did you go about this? I am ok to invest time and money if I get to experience a cooper.

Dealers in bangalore dont inspire confidence and its tough to catch pre-loved big brand cars directly from owners.

Originally Posted by BNG-motorhead

Thanks a lot for the detailed eval. I will need assurance and that comes at about 8L plus 5L totalling to 13 if I want peace of mind (Considering seller doesnt nego) Aeon is indeed a great FNG! Know them through my network.

So it boils down to-
Should I spend the money and the mindspace on this?

At ~13L my options explode in the new and used car market.

I was prepared for ~5L plus another 1L for repairs, but clearly this is not holding true.

I still like Skoda as a brand and especially their earlier cars. So if you really want that car then you must make the owner go with you to the skoda service centre where this car has been serviced and have a chat with them in his presence. Also ask for the complete service history printout. If these satisfy you, it is worth also investing in a thorough two post elevation and evaluation by a set of good FNG service chaps. This may cost some money, but it will give you peace of mind.

You say in your post above that you were prepared for 5 L plus 1 L. If the car costs 8 L and you are budgeting anther 6 L for maintenance and repairs over the first 18 to 24 months of ownership, you will indeed be very well covered against most eventualities, is my surmise. Or is there something that I have misunderstood here?

In ref to Mini Cooper.
I found mine on OLX - a friend sent me the ad. I realised the car lived in the neighbourhood. Belonged to a chap I had seen around. I had seen the car around too, several times. So one thing led to another and after one false start in April of 2019 (because I changed my mind), I finally acquired it in November 2019 by which time I had driven a few more of its brothers and cousins and narrowed my choice down. I was lucky that it was still available and I was also lucky to get it at a fair price. Remember, this was before the Pandemic and all and the car was indeed 7.5 years old when I took possession of it. Of course, since then, I have spent a great deal of money on it too, to bring it up to the best possible levels of perfection in performance and behaviour, though I have concentrated only very little on the cosmetics side of things. Also, mine is the Gen2 R56 S model which is significantly different from the F56 which replaced it. What you’ll get now is more likely an F56, but they will demand a higher price. The older R56 may also be available at lower prices, but all of them would be more than a decade old, so unless you absolutely know the owners or they are impeccably-vouched-for cars, it may not be a good idea.

There are tons of these Coopers in the market on OLX and CarWale and at various dealers. Many are ‘park and sell’. So indeed they belong to the owners who probably have several other cars and are therefore able to indulge in this ‘park and sell’. To that extent you may be reasonably sure that the cars will have some kind of provenance. And anyway, before buying such a car, you will absolutely have to take it to BMW Navnit, pay the 5000 Rupees to them and ask for an inspection as well as a printout of its complete service record to the extent that they have it. Or else you can get the owner or dealer to give you the service record and have the car inspected at the FNG. However, the asking prices are much higher at this point as the pandemic has driven all prices upwards.

[roadjourno]

After reading GTO's articles on used cars and other bhpians comments of learning to drive on second hand car posts.

I couldnt help myself asking for some inputs regarding buying this particular model https://www.spinny.com/buy-used-cars...ars-in-pune/s/ for city commutes in Pune especially dreaded nagar road whereabouts, magarpatta etc and using it to teach kids learn driving.

Second option used ignis 2021 model done 35k but expensive at 6l ask.

Any experiences and pointers most welcome.

Intend to keep the car for couple of years and i guess being Toyota easy to maintain.

Looking forward to your inputs.
//RJ