[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

My queries:
1) I have a copy of CC from my RTO stating that so and so date/time, the car is transferred to the buyer's RTO, mentioning his name, and that no further liabilities are on me. Is this all I can do from my end now?

2) The insurance company (ICICI Lombard) is giving the same stereotypic answers regarding my request for NCB transfer despite clearly explaining the situation and my inability to produce the new buyer's RC Book or the Form 29/30 which are in his possession. Is there any alternative option for me to pursue getting NCB retention letter?

3) In case the insurance company still refuses to give me the NCB retention letter without any alternatives and the policy goes on to expire after its due date (expires on December 19, 2017), will the NCB also expire along with the policy at that time or will it become available for transfer then?

Shiju,

Answering your queries point wise.
1) I am unaware that RTO issues a Clearance Certificate, haven't heard of it till date. If RTO has issues a CC, then request them to provide the copy of the updated RC with the new owner's details. If that is available then you should be safe.
2) The CC should be sufficient for the Insurance co to issue you the NCB certificate. If not then you could provide the copy of the Form 29/30 which you must have submitted at RTO or the receipt which RTO must have provided you upon the submission of the above documents. Based on either of the three, Insurance co should provide you the NCB certificate. If they still play games, then raise it with ICICI ombudsman or IRDA
3)NCB will still stay with you even if the policy expires. If Insurance co does not oblige as point 2, then temporarily you could submit an application to ICICI asking them to endorse the NCB eligibility. This way whenever you buy Insurance, you could use the accumulated NCB.

Hope this helps.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Shiju,

Answering your queries point wise.
1) I am unaware that RTO issues a Clearance Certificate, haven't heard of it till date. If RTO has issues a CC, then request them to provide the copy of the updated RC with the new owner's details. If that is available then you should be safe.
2) The CC should be sufficient for the Insurance co to issue you the NCB certificate. If not then you could provide the copy of the Form 29/30 which you must have submitted at RTO or the receipt which RTO must have provided you upon the submission of the above documents. Based on either of the three, Insurance co should provide you the NCB certificate. If they still play games, then raise it with ICICI ombudsman or IRDA
3)NCB will still stay with you even if the policy expires. If Insurance co does not oblige as point 2, then temporarily you could submit an application to ICICI asking them to endorse the NCB eligibility. This way whenever you buy Insurance, you could use the accumulated NCB.

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much, ghodlur.

1) RTO just gave me a CC mentioning that the vehicle is no more in my name or in my RTO jurisdiction and asked me to send it to the buyer. They clearly stated that just by getting CC here, the ownership transfer is not complete and that the buyer has to submit this CC in his RTO to get the new RC issued in his name (they also told me it's my responsibility to ensure that he goes and gets that done!! ). So, my RTO can only provide me CC, which they have already done, and can't do anything more than that - which is what I am trying to make ICICI Lombard understand.

2) Even I am hoping ICICI Lombard will accept the CC copy and my old RC book, which has got an endorsement stating that the vehicle is now moved out of my RTO jurisdiction. In addition, I am also sending them sale deed, sale receipt, and delivery note. Regarding form 29/30, I don't have them, as the buyer took those two with him to submit in his RTO. Also, my RTO didn't ask me for those when applying for a CC (I only had to give them a request letter with ID and address proof of both mine as well as the buyer).

3) Yeah, even I had a feeling that NCB will survive even if the policy dies. Thanks for confirming on this this.

Now, as soon as I am done with writing this, will be calling up ICICI Lombard. I'm hoping they won't let me end up having to contact ombudsman, IRDA, etc. Will keep you posted about the developments. Once again, thank you so much!

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

1) RTO just gave me a CC mentioning that the vehicle is no more in my name or in my RTO jurisdiction and asked me to send it to the buyer. They clearly stated that just by getting CC here, the ownership transfer is not complete and that the buyer has to submit this CC in his RTO to get the new RC issued in his name (they also told me it's my responsibility to ensure that he goes and gets that done!! ). So, my RTO can only provide me CC, which they have already done, and can't do anything more than that - which is what I am trying to make ICICI Lombard understand.

Okay, the CC is nothing but the NOC issued by the RTO. This needs to be submitted if there is a change of RTO jurisdiction and the buyer would need it for submitting to the RTO applicable where he resides. And unfortunately Insurance co will not accept this document for NCB certificate.

It was a mistake from your side of not keeping the form 29/30 copies (with buyer's signatures) for your record keeping. In fact you are required to send the copies along with an application letter to both the RTO's (existing registered + buyer's) through return receipt registered post. The acknowledgement which you receive is an equally important document. I have kept mine of my old car which I sold to my Brother in law.

There is a fantastic article by GTO which explains how to sell a car and what steps to be followed. Its like a bible, I had followed it step by step during sale process of two of my cars and it worked to the Tee.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...car-india.html

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Okay, the CC is nothing but the NOC issued by the RTO. This needs to be submitted if there is a change of RTO jurisdiction and the buyer would need it for submitting to the RTO applicable where he resides. And unfortunately Insurance co will not accept this document for NCB certificate.

It was a mistake from your side of not keeping the form 29/30 copies (with buyer's signatures) for your record keeping. In fact you are required to send the copies along with an application letter to both the RTO's (existing registered + buyer's) through return receipt registered post. The acknowledgement which you receive is an equally important document. I have kept mine of my old car which I sold to my Brother in law.

There is a fantastic article by GTO which explains how to sell a car and what steps to be followed. Its like a bible, I had followed it step by step during sale process of two of my cars and it worked to the Tee.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...car-india.html

Yeah, in fact, I had read the article by GTO in March (but apparently after the sale took place). Also, in my case the guy who bought the car from me looks like didn't want to register it in his name, so he asked me to just sign wherever necessary and took the papers with him, saying his agent will take care of the rest. Where I went wrong is believing him and not compelling him to sign the forms immediately and retaining a copy with me.

Also, my RTO had a different story (in this case, KA02). Actually immediately after the sale, I approached my RTO to inquire about how to send them Form 29/30, but they said I don't have to submit those forms there and that I just need to get a CC from there and give it to the buyer. Even after repeatedly asking, he clearly said they don't accept Form 29/30 from my hand and that it has to come to them only from the buyer's RTO along with the CC that I am going to give it to them. Hence, I just did that. Also, I even confirmed about this with some RTO agents there outside and all acknowledged the same version, so I am not sure if RTOs have different procedures state-wise!

Anyway, now the latest is, I had a long conversation with ICICI Lombard today afternoon, and they have asked me to send them whatever papers I have with me to prove that the car is sold. I have reiterated that I don't have the buyer's RC book or Form 29/30 with me and have attached all other papers. I even offered them getting a police complaint, if needed, stating that the buyer is not transferring the car in his name. They said that's not needed for now and will be getting back to me in 2-3 working days after scrutinizing the documents I have sent. So, keeping fingers crossed and hoping they accept my case and issue the NCB.

[aadya]

@Shijanto4 All you would require to get the No claim Bonus is an active policy on the Car which was sold either on your name(hypothetical and not advisable) or the buyer's name. If you have the new insurance, you have to give a request letter and immediately(within 2-3 working days) they will release your NCB. All the other documents are mere supporting documents. New policy assures the company that they are not liable to pay claim based on old policy.

It is always better to get a cover note on the buyer's name(Proper Policy will be issued once RC transfer is done) and use it for NCB release.

Hope this helps.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by aadya

@Shijanto4 All you would require to get the No claim Bonus is an active policy on the Car which was sold either on your name(hypothetical and not advisable) or the buyer's name. If you have the new insurance, you have to give a request letter and immediately(within 2-3 working days) they will release your NCB. All the other documents are mere supporting documents. New policy assures the company that they are not liable to pay claim based on old policy.

It is always better to get a cover note on the buyer's name(Proper Policy will be issued once RC transfer is done) and use it for NCB release.

Hope this helps.

Hi aadya,
Yes, my old car has active policy still on my name (I had agreed to transfer insurance also as part of the sale to buyer). What do you mean by new insurance? Are you talking about the buyer's new insurance policy, which he has to apply for? By the way, he seems to be not at all in a hurry to apply for his new RC or his new insurance. Also, the car is officially still in my name as per RTO records and covered under my existing insurance policy, so ICICI Lombard has straight away refused to terminate the insurance until RTO removes the vehicle from my name.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

Are you talking about the buyer's new insurance policy, which he has to apply for? By the way, he seems to be not at all in a hurry to apply for his new RC or his new insurance. Also, the car is officially still in my name as per RTO records and covered under my existing insurance policy, so ICICI Lombard has straight away refused to terminate the insurance until RTO removes the vehicle from my name.

You have to apply for transfer of ownership immediately, why take the risk of some one else using a car registered on your name.
Once vehicle is transfered, you apply for transfer of insurance policy charges are recovery of NCB you enjoy + Rs 58.
The NCB recovered will be only for days remaining in policy, ie if the NCB percentage translates to Rs 15000 and only 165 days of the policy are remaining the recovery will be 15000/365X165=6781.
NCB sertificate will be issued immediately on doing this process.

Rahul

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

You have to apply for transfer of ownership immediately, why take the risk of some one else using a car registered on your name.
Once vehicle is transfered, you apply for transfer of insurance policy charges are recovery of NCB you enjoy + Rs 58.
The NCB recovered will be only for days remaining in policy, ie if the NCB percentage translates to Rs 15000 and only 165 days of the policy are remaining the recovery will be 15000/365X165=6781.
NCB sertificate will be issued immediately on doing this process.

Rahul

Hi Rahul,
The process of ownership transfer is now stuck at the buyer's RTO. He has to submit the Form 29/30 along with the CC that I have already handed over to him. I have visited my RTO at least 10 times so far, and at my latest visit, the "officer" asked me to give a police complaint saying my vehicle is stolen!! (I believe this was not his official advice, but out of frustration on seeing me repeatedly there). So, technically, there is nothing I can do from my end in my RTO to complete this transfer.

Coming to insurance, it looks like the buyer is not going to complete ownership transfer until my insurance automatically expires (valid until December 20, 2017). So, I have alerted ICICI Lombard about this and still awaiting their reply. Once I hear from them and if they still refuse to give me NCB letter, then will decide on whether to approach police. I guess police would either pursue the buyer to complete the process or at least give me an acknowledgement based on my old RC book and CC, which clearly says the vehicle has moved out of Bengaluru.

Regarding NCB calculation, they would just be giving a letter stating the percentage of NCB eligible right, which one can use to reduce basic premium of the new car insurance. I am not aware of NCB amount being refunded by insurance companies, but I know for sure they would refund the remaining premium amount on a pro rata basis if the policy is canceled before expiry.

[aadya]

[quote=shijanto4;4211720Also, the car is officially still in my name as per RTO records and covered under my existing insurance policy, so ICICI Lombard has straight away refused to terminate the insurance until RTO removes the vehicle from my name.[/QUOTE]

Other option is to go for a new Third party insurance only on your vehicle on your name(cost would be appox 2.5k). Submit this to ICICI lombard and get your NCB released pronto.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by aadya

Other option is to go for a new Third party insurance only on your vehicle on your name(cost would be appox 2.5k). Submit this to ICICI lombard and get your NCB released pronto.

Yes, that can be a viable option. Will see their reply and decide on that. Thanks.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

Yes, that can be a viable option. Will see their reply and decide on that. Thanks.

That could be the hasslefree option. all these troubles could have been avoided if you had just taken a third party insurance for your car before selling and utilise the NCB endorsement for the comprehensive policy for your new car.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by ajay99

That could be the hasslefree option. all these troubles could have been avoided if you had just taken a third party insurance for your car before selling and utilise the NCB endorsement for the comprehensive policy for your new car.

You are right, actually that option didn't strike me at all during the sale. The buyer was insisting that I sell the car with the insurance and the sale happened so quickly that I didn't even get a chance to stop and think over other available options. Truly a mistake, which I'll be careful not to repeat the next time.

[Rahul Rao]

Correct way is to tell buyer to pay you agreed price, then take the papers to RTO and submit them for transfer and only then deliver the car after collecting the photocopy of the the inward receipt.
Being the registered owner you are at risk of having legal issues in case your car is used for illegal activities or meets with an accident.

Rahul

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Correct way is to tell buyer to pay you agreed price, then take the papers to RTO and submit them for transfer and only then deliver the car after collecting the photocopy of the the inward receipt.
Being the registered owner you are at risk of having legal issues in case your car is used for illegal activities or meets with an accident.

Rahul

That may not be possible in states like kerala ,where NOC/Clearance certificate are issued/needed only for out of state sales.So if a car is sold by a seller from Trivandrum and the buyer is from Trichur/Calicut it is not viable for the seller to go to that RTO and submit the transfer papers.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by ajay99

That may not be possible in states like kerala ,where NOC/Clearance certificate are issued/needed only for out of state sales.So if a car is sold by a seller from Trivandrum and the buyer is from Trichur/Calicut it is not viable for the seller to go to that RTO and submit the transfer papers.

In Karnataka, if a vehicle (except two wheelers) is being transferred out of a RTO jurisdiction, then NOC/CC is mandatory from the outgoing RTO. Without this, the buyer's RTO will not register the vehicle in the buyer's name.