[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by null

Queries:
1. Is it possible to ask for NCB retention letter without waiting for registration transfer complete (takes 2-3 weeks+ I hear) using the delivery note signed by the buyer? Can he apply for insurance transfer separately later?
2. What happens if the insurance expires in the meanwhile during transfer period? - i.e., RTO formalities get over only by end of October, but insurance expires in the middle of October. What happens to the NCB Retention letter?

Another query:
What insurance do we have when we are driving a car on temporary registration plates? None I believe. Right?

To answer your queries serially:

1) Yes it is possible to request the NCB letter during the ownership transfer process. Submit the delivery note copy along with the Form 29, 30 copies (submitted for ownership transfer) to the Insurance co to get the NCB letter. The new owner can later apply for the Insurance transfer or you too can initiate the proceedings by submitting an application of Insurance ownership transfer so that the Insurer is aware of the fact. Once the Ownership is transferred, the new RC can be submitted as proof and Insurance ownership can be formalized. Please note that during the Insurance transfer any amount claimed as NCB during previous Insurance renewal will have to be returned back to Insurer on pro rata basis.

2) If the Insurance of the car who ownership is being transferred is to expire during the ownership transfer, then it becomes the responsibility of the old owner to ensure that the Insurance is renewed and then transferred. The decision of who will pay for the Insurance renewal will have to be mutually agreed between the seller and the buyer. If the insurance expires and the buyer is driving the car without insurance then any claim towards the car will be rejected by the Insurance co due to lapsed Insurance. There will be no effect on the NCB retention letter.

Any newly purchased vehicle cannot be registered until it has valid Insurance on it, so when you drive a registered car it will have an Insurance on it. The number plates are temporary till you get the registration no. The receipt given for the registration charges is a valid document till you get the permanent registration.

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by null

I have sold my car now. I understand that the car need to be registered in the new party's name & only then we can apply for insurance transfer along with a request for NCB Retention Letter.

Queries:
1. Is it possible to ask for NCB retention letter without waiting for registration transfer complete (takes 2-3 weeks+ I hear) using the delivery note signed by the buyer? Can he apply for insurance transfer separately later?
2. What happens if the insurance expires in the meanwhile during transfer period? - i.e., RTO formalities get over only by end of October, but insurance expires in the middle of October. What happens to the NCB Retention letter?

Another query:
What insurance do we have when we are driving a car on temporary registration plates? None I believe. Right?

Sir,

Insurance transfer can be applied even before the RC transfer has happened as mentioned by another user above, with the help of a letter from you, copies of Form 29 and Form 30. And if the application has been made at the RTO office, the receipt also works as a valid proof. Check with your insurance provider on what documents they consider as valid.

Replies to your queries:
1. If the insurance transfer has been applied for, the NCB retention letter can be asked for. Even if the RC transfer at the RTO is pending or in progress.
2. IMHO, If the insurance is valid the day the application was made at the RTO, the RTO will proceed and register the car in the new owner's name. While the registration happens and the RC card is received, it is the sole responsibility of the new owner to renew the insurance if it is expiring. But, once you have sold the car and signed Form 29 and 30, you cannot be sure on when the next owner will present it for Registration. The party may go for registration at a date after which the current policy expired. In which case, the liability might come to the seller of the car as the car is in his name at the moment. So, a mutual agreement about the current policy period and renewal is advised between the seller and the buyer of the car at the time of the sale. A little foresight goes on to build a great relationship later on.

Driving a car on the temporary registration does not mean it cannot have insurance. It is an absolute must for any car going out of the showroom to have a valid insurance. In some cities like Hyderabad, you normally bring out the car on Temporary number plate and get it registered later(within 30 days without fine). At this time, the insurance is covered on the basis of the Chassis no and Engine no of the car. The onus is on the buyer to update the insurance provider about the permanent registration no. once it arrives. Whereas, in certain cities, you cannot get a car delivered unless the registration has already happened and the number put-up on the car.

[dpkbehera]

Since i was not sure whether i should sell or retain my old car, i renewed the old car insurance (comprehensive) on expiry. However i renewed it with the same provider from whom i am going to get the new car insurance from. The customer care assured me that even if i retain my old car, i would be able to transfer the NCB from the old car to the new car.

[abs182]

I recently sold my 11 year old Corolla which had 50% NCB. I asked for the certificate of NCB. To my utter surprise I wasn't asked for any RTO transfer papers etc as mentioned here. All they wanted from me was my ID proof but also Rs. 1049/-. When I asked about the money they said since the insurance is till March 2016, you'll have to relinquish the NCB for six months hence the payment. When asked how the amount of Rs. 1049/- is arrived he said its a system generated figure!

Than the reliance general insurance which was the company for my Corolla asked me if i can just scan the RTO selling form which Hyundai exchange people made me sign during the exchange of my Corolla with the Grand i10. So I promptly scanned it to the local office head. within 1 day he sent me the certificate!

How is this possible? I was expecting nothing to happen till the car isn't sold off by the dealer and the RC book write off my name and adds the new owner's name. But this approach surprised me. Can someone help me with this?

Another question is that I wanted to claim the NCB against my BMW X3 and hence called HDFC Ergo. They said that the certificate can only be used when the next renewal happens and that they cannot send me the refund cheque for the current policy. Is it true can anyone confirm this for me. The BMW insurance is due in late Jan 2016.

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by abs182

I recently sold my 11 year old Corolla which had 50% NCB. I asked for the certificate of NCB. To my utter surprise I wasn't asked for any RTO transfer papers etc as mentioned here. All they wanted from me was my ID proof but also Rs. 1049/-. When I asked about the money they said since the insurance is till March 2016, you'll have to relinquish the NCB for six months hence the payment. When asked how the amount of Rs. 1049/- is arrived he said its a system generated figure!


How is this possible? I was expecting nothing to happen till the car isn't sold off by the dealer and the RC book write off my name and adds the new owner's name. But this approach surprised me. Can someone help me with this?

Sir, one person can own more than one car. I transferred my old Honda City's NCB to BMW X1 that I recently purchased while still owing the Honda. The steps I followed were:
1. Cancel the policy on my Honda City.
2. Get NCB letter.
3. Renew the BMW insurance using this letter.
4. Renew Honda insurance with 0 NCB.

Originally Posted by abs182

Another question is that I wanted to claim the NCB against my BMW X3 and hence called HDFC Ergo. They said that the certificate can only be used when the next renewal happens and that they cannot send me the refund cheque for the current policy. Is it true can anyone confirm this for me. The BMW insurance is due in late Jan 2016.

Insurance provider to provider policies differ a bit. Ideally, HDFC Ego should endorse the NCB on your current policy and send you a pro-rated refund. If they still want to play their game as is, you can:
1. Ask them to issue a written letter that they cannot add your NCB on the policy now and refund you. Mention that you are going to send it to the Insurance Ombudsman at IRDA for clarification on whether companies should refund or not.
or alternatively
2. Cancel the policy with HDFC Ergo. Get a refund for the cancelled period. In my case, while canceling the Honda policy, Bajaj Allianz did not pay me back anything as the policy was due for less than 90 days. Check with them on their refund policy on cancellation before taking this step.
3. Renew the policy immediately using the NCB letter with another provider. And tell HDFC upfront about your plan. This may cause them to issue you a refund on the current policy to retain you as a customer.

--Kalyan

[naut]

Folks,

I sold my car to maruti true value in Nov 2014 and bought a new vehicle. The car had almost a full years insurance cover with it including a 50% NCB. I could not get an NCB transferred at that time as true value hadn't sold the car yet and the car was still in my name.

True value sold my old car some time later and forgot to intimate me about the transfer. I got to know of it recently. I still don't know when the car was sold (could have happened several months before is what I was told).

When I contacted my old insurer (oriental insurance) to get my NCB certificate, I was told that it may not be possible if the old insurance policy was transferred to the new owner before last 30 days.Since my old policy was most likely transferred much before the last 30 days, do I stand to lose my 50% NCB?

Is this true? Is there a limit on the time (30 days or whatever) after the transfer of the policy within which the NCB certificate has to be taken?


Your inputs will help me tremendously.

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by naut

Is there a limit on the time (30 days or whatever) after the transfer of the policy within which the NCB certificate has to be taken?

Yes, there is a time limit for the application of the NCB letter and it is within 30 days of old car ownership transfer. NCB certificate once obtained is valid of 3 yrs.

Unfortunately that was careless of you not to ensure that the ownership transfer happens once you sold your car. You should have applied for NCB with the delivery note and forms 29 &30 which you must have filled, signed and handed to dealer. Since the liability was on you, any illegal activity carried out by the dealer or anyone related with your car and you would be the person held responsible for.

[naut]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Yes, there is a time limit for the application of the NCB letter and it is within 30 days of old car ownership transfer. NCB certificate once obtained is valid of 3 yrs.

I was aware of NCB letter validity, but not the time limit to obtain it.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Unfortunately that was careless of you not to ensure that the ownership transfer happens once you sold your car. You should have applied for NCB with the delivery note and forms 29 &30 which you must have filled, signed and handed to dealer. Since the liability was on you, any illegal activity carried out by the dealer or anyone related with your car and you would be the person held responsible for.

Oops! I was unaware of this option. I was under the impression that this is possible only after the actual ownership is transferred. My bad! I could have very well done this when I handed over the car to the dealer (before the new owner came into picture right?). Strangely, the Oriental insurance guy asked me for proof of ownership transfer (RC copy). How could this have been possible then? Any thoughts?

By the way, I have one other question. I recently got a renewal notice from my old insurer (Oriental) to renew my old car insurance. So, is it possible that they are still not aware of the transfer and is there a ray of hope for me to get the NCB letter?

Your input will greatly help!

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by naut

the Oriental insurance guy asked me for proof of ownership transfer (RC copy). How could this have been possible then? Any thoughts?

I recently got a renewal notice from my old insurer (Oriental) to renew my old car insurance. So, is it possible that they are still not aware of the transfer and is there a ray of hope for me to get the NCB letter?

Insurers do ask for proof of transfer i.e the new RC. What you could have done was get the NCB application stamped by the old car Insurance co with the NCB % clearly mentioned on the application form. This is sufficient for the new car Insurance co to acknowledge the NCB provided you do give the changed ownership proof i.e new RC during the policy period.

Since you got the renewal notice of your old car's insurance, it means that the insurance ownership is either not transferred or Oriental still have your name in their records. Check with the dealer if the Insurance also has been transferred. If it is, then ask Oriental to update their records. If the Insurance is still not transferred, do make an application to Oriental clearly abdicating your liability for the policy.

[naut]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

What you could have done was get the NCB application stamped by the old car Insurance co with the NCB % clearly mentioned on the application form. This is sufficient for the new car Insurance co to acknowledge the NCB provided you do give the changed ownership proof i.e new RC during the policy period.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by ghodlur

If the Insurance is still not transferred, do make an application to Oriental clearly abdicating your liability for the policy.

Aye-Aye Sir. Understand that I need to abdicate my liability.
That apart, does this offer any hope for my NCB letter (not the abdication, but the fact that they still have my name in their records)?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by naut

That apart, does this offer any hope for my NCB letter

If only the Insurer for the new car would have been Oriental again, you did have a slim chance nevertheless. But worth a try. You can come up with some innovative reasons like out of country for not applying for the NCB letter.

[akj123]

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

1. Cancel the policy on the old car(say Car A). And get the NCB letter. Please note that, in certain cases like Bajaj Allianz, the cancellation was effective immediately so you will lose coverage on Car A immediately.

Thanks, this was a very helpful post on sequence.

I have an old car which is not much used but has 50% NCB. Am thinking of converting it to third-party only insurance, and transfer NCB towards my new car purchase - should save 10k in first year itself. I think it is do-able with the sequence you have mentioned.

Couple of qs:
(1) Is it possible to get third party insurance for the old car (Car A) immediately after cancelling the full policy, or, do we have to wait to get NCB letter and transfer the NCB to new car (Car B) ?

(2) Another option - is it possible to claim NCB transfer and apply it to new car for first yeat itself, if we are exchanging an old car at the dealer ? I would think not but just asking.

Thanks once again!

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by naut

That apart, does this offer any hope for my NCB letter (not the abdication, but the fact that they still have my name in their records)?

Well, do write to the Oriental Insurance company about the NCB letter. You can mention the true state of facts:
1. You giving the car to the Maruti True Value dealer.
2. Him not informing you about the actual sale and in-turn the transfer of the policy, etc.
3. And requesting them to generate an NCB letter/ Certificate on your name.

If the letter does not work with Oriental folks, writing to IRDA for advice might help as IRDA usually is consumer-sided. You might have a sleek chance.

Originally Posted by akj123

Thanks, this was a very helpful post on sequence.

I have an old car which is not much used but has 50% NCB. Am thinking of converting it to third-party only insurance, and transfer NCB towards my new car purchase - should save 10k in first year itself. I think it is do-able with the sequence you have mentioned.

Couple of qs:
(1) Is it possible to get third party insurance for the old car (Car A) immediately after cancelling the full policy, or, do we have to wait to get NCB letter and transfer the NCB to new car (Car B) ?

(2) Another option - is it possible to claim NCB transfer and apply it to new car for first yeat itself, if we are exchanging an old car at the dealer ? I would think not but just asking.

Thanks once again!

1. Yes, it is possible. However, the cancellation will take effect immediately, say you visit the provider's office at 4 pm and give it in writing to cancel the old policy, it will be cancelled and voided at that moment. Any new policy, whether comprehensive or TP only can be started on the car but keep in mind that such a policy will start coming into effect that night at 00:00 hrs or later. Later, because they will now need to inspect the car since the old policy on it got voided. So, in effect there is this 8 hours period or more when your old car is not under any insurance cover.

2. Yes, it should be possible. Once you sign Form 29 and 30, you can submit the copies with the insurer and get your NCB letter/ Certificate. Talking to the insurance provider advisors in person will help with the process. While there is a common law, the interpretation of the same is left to individual providers and each has their own way of interpreting the same.

--Kalyan

[akj123]

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

1. Yes, it is possible. However, the cancellation will take effect immediately, say you visit the provider's office at 4 pm and give it in writing to cancel the old policy, it will be cancelled and voided at that moment. Any new policy, whether comprehensive or TP only can be started on the car but keep in mind that such a policy will start coming into effect that night at 00:00 hrs or later.

Thanks Kalyan!

Am talking to the insurer (incidentally mine is also Bajaj Allianz) and trying to figure out if i can convert the Comprehensive to TP and simultaneously get the NCB letter. Have spoken to one person in the office and waiting response.

Looks like they have only one branch in BLR which handles these transactions and would need to physically go there.

[dpkbehera]

Would appreciate feedback on the following scenario i.e. I purchased the insurance for my new car from RS. I could not transfer the NCB from my old car to my new car as the change in ownership (sale of old car) will taken another 2 weeks.Once change in ownership happens, which option is better i.e.
a)"You cannot claim your NCB for the first year but make sure you get the NCB letter when you sell your old car. You can use the letter to reduce your second year’s premium."
b)"Claim your NCB refund for the first year by submitting NCB letter when you sell your old car."

Are both the above options feasible? And which option is preferable?