[InControl]

I have a Ritz 2010 Vxi Genus 62k run(new clutch, new wheels) and planning to buy a AT car for my wifey(for her office runs) who is now undergoing driving Classes.I am thinking of retaining the Ritz for my daily office usage and buying a used 2011 Honda City AT for around ~4L??
A bit confused as to having two cars for two people. I am also thinking if my wife doesnt use the City much later I can always sell the Ritz (after an year for say around 2 lakhs) and keep the City AT only for my office runs.
What would be the mileage of City AT(3rd Gen) in a typical bangalore city run.
Ritz on My office route gives around 11 kmpl.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by InControl

I have a Ritz 2010 Vxi Genus 62k run(new clutch, new wheels) and planning to buy a AT car for my wifey(for her office runs) who is now undergoing driving Classes.I am thinking of retaining the Ritz for my daily office usage and buying a used 2011 Honda City AT for around ~4L??
A bit confused as to having two cars for two people. I am also thinking if my wife doesnt use the City much later I can always sell the Ritz (after an year for say around 2 lakhs) and keep the City AT only for my office runs.
What would be the mileage of City AT(3rd Gen) in a typical bangalore city run.
Ritz on My office route gives around 11 kmpl.

Expect to get around 7 kmpl in stop-go rush hour jams, 8kmpl overall city mileage if driven by an inexperienced driver, 9-10 kmpl once the driver familiarizes him/her self with the drive-train.

[zulfi hansi]

Dear Members,

This is the biggest dilemma I have ever faced in my life, and joy is I get to buy two cars (pre-owned).

1. The first car is for me. Budget is 30 lakhs.
2. The second car is for my Dad. Budget is 15 lakhs.

Common points for both cars;

1. Should not be older than 2012.
2. Only the following brands will be considered; Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo.
3. Both me and my Dad have never been attracted to SUVs, but lately we are thinking, are we doing the right thing.
4. Mileage preferably under 35k kms can be compelled to stretch max 50k kms.

Brief Saga:

I lovingly bought a 2007-08 E280 CDI in 2013 for my Dad, it was a gift. It had done only 33k kms when I bought it, and now it has done only 61k kms.
I am very happy with this car, but. I had a 2005 Corolla at that time which I sold before buying the E280. My Dad also had a 2003 Corolla, we both were very happy with our cars.

But he used it only one year and never wanted it back. He knocked it in a few places, small bruises, and that is how he has always been. He felt guilty about the knocks and asked me to retain it. He took back his Corolla and is still using it. It has done 1.9 lakh kms and still going strong.

I pondered for two years on this issue and now my Mom is annoyed with me and has ordered me to buy a suitable car for my Dad, and even she will not settle for the mundane brands anymore (I am happy about it).

My reasons and requirements:

I am worried I will hardly get any money for my car if it crosses another year (10 years), doesn't feel refined and modern enough, may be its just excuses. When I bought this car I was driving it myself everyday, even now I do but only on highways. I am chauffeured in the city, and don't really want a big engine. My car gives me a FE of just about 5.5-6 kms/ltr in Bangalore, where the average speed between my house to office and back is always about 8 kms/hr. But on highways its bliss, at consistent highway speeds it still returns 11-13 kms/ltr. Moreover the 2015 E250 has almost the same performance figures of my 2008 E280. But the present crop don't have the same built and ride quality. My annual usage is 10000 kms. My wife is pushing me to buy a SUV as it is more versatile, practical, also that an SUV will suit my personality and in any case she says I will end up with sedans when I am old, I am not convinced yet. Cars I have driven and liked, E280 CDI, 3 Series, 530d, E350d, Cooper S, Z4, SLK.

Do I want an SUV, I really don't know. I thought about buying a roadster but gave up the idea as it will not come in my budget, will be able to use it only on weekends and I need a show car for my daily use, I am a lawyer. Cars considered by me, some not in my budget but still; E250 CDI (2013 and above), E350 CDI, 530d, A6, S5, GLC, Disco Sport, Evoque and X3.

My Dads' reasons and requirements:

He loves to drive, no chauffeur for him. Just needs a lovely car, has been driving the Corolla for too long, he's owned a Opel Astra in past and still remembers it. Does not want anything bigger than the Corolla in dimensions, hatchbacks, A, B Class, A3, GLA, CLA will not do, he doesn't like the cramped space or looks of these cars, he is also on the heavier side and so is my Mom. It should have a good GC. Since he lives in Hubli the roads are pothole ridden, but he mostly drives on NH4 which is great, but cannot afford to get a low GC car damaged in the city. None of these brands have a service center in his town. Highway use 8000 kms/year, city 2000 kms/year, total 10000 kms/year. Cars considered for him so far; X1 (2013 and above), 320d (2012 and above) and C Class.

My budget is already maxed at 30 lakhs, Dad is reluctant to go beyond 15 lakhs. What should we buy?

[ToyotaFan]

I think the best car for your dad would be a BMW X1. They don't have the best resale value and 2011-2012 cars were sold at a huge discount and so should be available in your budget. Although it is also not a spacious car by any means but the front seat is quite good. A 3 series E 90 should be available in your budget which is no doubt a good car but wont give you the same peace of mind regarding GC. You might also want to look at 2012-2013 Audi Q3 which May be available at a slight premium to your said budget but has good space and interiors.

As far as car for you goes if u r chauffeur driven I don't think a car like evoque will get you enough back seat space that you require for your daily drive. For self driven it is a good proposition. I think you should look at early examples of Jaguar XF, E 250/350 and the Audi A6 3.0. The 5 series also does not have a good back seat although its very good to drive. If u r looking at some older cars you May even get a 5-6 year old S class or 7 series in your budget which May also be good buys. As far as SUVs go I think the ML 250 or the Audi Q5 are good cars in your budget. Hope this helps.

[zulfi hansi]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

I think the best car for your dad would be a BMW X1. They don't have the best resale value and 2011-2012 cars were sold at a huge discount and so should be available in your budget. Although it is also not a spacious car by any means but the front seat is quite good. A 3 series E 90 should be available in your budget which is no doubt a good car but wont give you the same peace of mind regarding GC. You might also want to look at 2012-2013 Audi Q3 which May be available at a slight premium to your said budget but has good space and interiors.

As far as car for you goes if u r chauffeur driven I don't think a car like evoque will get you enough back seat space that you require for your daily drive. For self driven it is a good proposition. I think you should look at early examples of Jaguar XF, E 250/350 and the Audi A6 3.0. The 5 series also does not have a good back seat although its very good to drive. If u r looking at some older cars you May even get a 5-6 year old S class or 7 series in your budget which May also be good buys. As far as SUVs go I think the ML 250 or the Audi Q5 are good cars in your budget. Hope this helps.

I should have clarified that, should be spacious in the front, as only two will be using the car. So X1 is the one I had zeroed in, but the hitch is that only 2013 and above have a lighter steering, earlier models have a very heavy steering wheel, great for me but not for him, especially in city speeds. I did consider the E90, but worried about the GC, the F30 is 157mm, I don't know about the E90 but I'm sure it is lesser than that. I really like the F30, trying to see if I can get that in at least about 17L, will certainly push my Dad for it. Don't want to spend more than 16-17 on F30 since I am getting good range of C Class in similar prices. Q3 just not available under 20 lakhs in Bangalore.

For me; I am a little apprehensive about old XFs, a new one with 2L diesel is better I feel, but don't want to spend 60 lakhs and buy the base version, and get straddled with it for the next 7-10 years. I'd rather spend 65 lakhs on a Disco Sport if I have given up on driving fast cars, don't see that happening very soon. Evoque, I just love the design, in any case I am not serious about it, its a overpriced car, unless I get a killer deal though. I am open to A6 with any diesel engine, not many options in market. But 5 series is a serious compromise in space, I have a week spot for the 530d, but really apprehensive. Why not a W212 E250 CDI? I have a week spot for that, without any credible reason off course. What is you opinion on SUVs, I never really thought of them ever, only now since my wife is insisting.

I am not prepared for the next level of S Class and so on at the moment. I don't want to upgrade too early and crib about the maintenance later. I really like the XJL, the way it looks, may be after 5 years, I know its the last option for many in that class, too many drawbacks.

[zulfi hansi]

I came across a 2014 Audi RS5 done 23K kms, asking price 65L. I was told it was costing 1.2-1.4 Cr when new. The break pads last only 10k kms and cost 75k, service schedule is 15k kms or 1 year and costs about 80-100k. 3 years half the value, another 3 years it will come to 35-40L. I cannot come to terms with how do I justify this expense for a car which may be used 4 times a month or less, is just one question of many. I mean what is the profile of the guy how should be buying it. What time is right to buy such a high performance car? I mean when it is 3 years old or 6 years old and so on.

Ordinary blokes like us who have not inherited millions or haven't made money bags miraculously, considering we can take a call how do we fit a car like this in our lives?

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

I came across a 2014 Audi RS5 done 23K kms, asking price 65L. I was told it was costing 1.2-1.4 Cr when new. The break pads last only 10k kms and cost 75k, service schedule is 15k kms or 1 year and costs about 80-100k. 3 years half the value, another 3 years it will come to 35-40L. I cannot come to terms with how do I justify this expense for a car which may be used 4 times a month or less, is just one question of many. I mean what is the profile of the guy how should be buying it. What time is right to buy such a high performance car? I mean when it is 3 years old or 6 years old and so on.

Ordinary blokes like us who have not inherited millions or haven't made money bags miraculously, considering we can take a call how do we fit a car like this in our lives?

I am guessing one can buy/source OEM parts for a lot less. Also for most basic servicing you can find a competent workshop which deals in high end cars which will drastically cut down on the yearly servicing costs for which company workshops charge an arm and a leg.

Cars are obscenely priced these days, especially the so called high end imports. Even common car prices don't make sense to a lot of people. For the same reason, I can't wrap my mind around going for a hatchback to replace my 15 yr old Palio, considering new models cost nearly twice what I paid for it and all of them feel cramped compared to the space Palio provides.

Yes, the car's price might halve in the next three years, but then many people have issues in buying such an old car. I was once offered a 320i for just 12L. The car was owned by a known person and had been standing for some time and only driven 7k kms in 5 years. But my dad didn't go for it because of the car's age.
I would definitely have bought it, but my Dad wouldn't listen despite me knowing the guy in person.
So everyone has their idiosyncrasies. I, for one, wouldn't mind buying an old car at a steal price if it is sound mechanically.

[Rohan24]

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

I came across a 2014 Audi RS5 done 23K kms, asking price 65L..
.
.

Considering it's an RS5 and not an ordinary A4,A5,etc. parts might be hard to come by, and it being an import and everything, bespoke engine compared to rest of the family, it will have its own quirks which even local competent dealers may not know. But at 3 yrs old, its fairly new and shouldn't give issues. If you can find a service centre specialising in performance cars (not just Audi,Merc,BMWs) you could get the servicing,etc. done for less.

[zulfi hansi]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Yes, the car's price might halve in the next three years, but then many people have issues in buying such an old car. I was once offered a 320i for just 12L.
I would definitely have bought it,... I, for one, wouldn't mind buying an old car at a steal price if it is sound mechanically.

Even if I manage to import the consumable parts, in Bangalore there are no options for getting such cars serviced outside. Bosch can barely manage to service my E280 CDI.

Precisely, I will too buy a 6 years old performance car at a great price if it is been used well. This RS5 has been used pretty well, you don't come across many 3 year old performance cars which have done 23K kms, that is also the reason why the asking price is 65L and not 75-85L. But I wouldn't mind buying this same car as a 6 year old at 35L which should have ideally not crossed 35K kms. The catch is you will not find good / decently used examples of 5-6 year old performance cars. So I guess it is best to buy it when they are 3 years old with at least 1-2 years warranty from the dealer. And when you sell it after another 3 years, you will again get half the price. The loss is close to 30L in three years. 10 lakhs a year!

Originally Posted by Rohan24

Considering it's an RS5 and not an ordinary A4,A5,etc. parts might be hard to come by, and it being an import and everything, bespoke engine compared to rest of the family, it will have its own quirks which even local competent dealers may not know. But at 3 yrs old, its fairly new and shouldn't give issues. If you can find a service centre specialising in performance cars (not just Audi,Merc,BMWs) you could get the servicing,etc. done for less.

Like I said no one in Bangalore. Yes, never buy without warranty. Regular service is the least of the worries, its the major cost parts failure that can induce a heart attack, in such cars, so warranty will work here. Even if I manage to spend 60-65L to buy a car like this, it is the depreciation of 10 lakhs each year that I cannot stomach. It is basically like renting a car for 1 lakh per month, in fact renting will be better than buying it and being saddled with it for service and insurance and eventually not getting your minimum resale at the end of 3 years. If you make a down payment of 30L and take a loan of another 30L for 3 yrs, you will pay 1L each month EMI. And if you are lucky, when ever you sell it in the 36 month period all that you have paid towards EMIs, consider it as rent for the car. If you are unlucky you might end up paying from your pocket for fulfill part of the overdue loan, if you don't get a resale of 30L, after 3 yrs.

[IshaanIan]

I have a different take on this: an RS5 is a huge depreciating asset and I don't know about you but I wouldn't be comfortable blowing that kind of cash on a used sports saloon that is going to ask a lot from you in terms of maintenance and then not even reward you with good resale value, unless I can afford to buy it brand new.

I would do such a thing only when I have the finances to buy a brand new car and even then I'd take a long hard look at lease options.

Alternatively, you can search for something like an E46 M3 which ought to be far cheaper to buy therefore easier on the wallet to maintain and should give you the thrills of owning a sports saloon but also reward you with decent resale value few years down the line. Such cars are appreciating in value and it's always nice to be able to buy an iconic one like the M3.

Apart from looking at lease options and sourcing an appreciating classic like the E46 M3, here's an offbeat option: considering you own an E class which is still extremely competitive in offering you a luxury experience, why not look into used Honda S2000s? It is as pure as a sports car as you will find and being a Japanese import, parts will never be too difficult to source and any garage with a team that goes out to all these drag race and offroading events, should be able to help you maintain it easily.

[rdst_1]

If you can't stomach the depreciation, then you would be better off buying reliable practical cars which have good resale values.
Or move to a country where such cars are not priced as exorbitantly as in India.

[nikhil_pon]

There are multiple things going on here:
i think 1st you need to narrow down your options and focus on the car you want to buy say in couple of months. I know cars are a passion for many of us and always confuses with all the options especially in the used car market with a pretty good budget of 30lakhs.
The starting of the thread you mentioned budget of 30lakhs so it will be wise to be close to this figure. The RS5 is probably not the right car for you at the moment based on your posts above.
You having a daily drive of the E280 which came with a V6 engine, the benchmark for your next car is very high in terms of performance and the sheer ease and muscle of a V6 engine.
From the current crop of cars a BMW530d would be a good upgrade from your current car. Offcourse the back seat is not spacious but you will forget all this once in the driver seat. Problem is in Blore getting a well maintained bmw530d of 2013 and above under 35 lakh looks pretty tough.
Also there used to sell Audi S5 / S4 which if you able to find in Blore will be a pretty decent upgrade from the E280. These are not full blown performance cars but will keep you happy with the power and daily driver car experience.
Regarding your option SUVs, new Skoda Kodiaq should come in your budget. You will get the new car feel but not the same finesse of MB/ BMW. However in terms of performance a used BMW X3 (say 2012 model, 2l engine) should be similar to the Kodiaq (2l petrol or diesel).
If you stretch your budget then you might find a used BMWX6 (you will be happy with the performance and space offered)
Currently i am in US and seeing the Jeep Compass here i am not convinced that it will sell well if priced above 22lak OTR. Fiat/ Jeep brand image doesnt help its cause too.

Blore luxury market not having same options like Mumbai, Delhi etc and prices quoted by dealers are pretty high.
Patience is the key in luxury used car market, keep chipping away at prospective cars till you are convinced.

For your dad, as mentioned by other members above, the X1 looks like a pretty good option. stretch couple of laks more and for around 17 -18 you might find the 2013 new model with lighter steering.

[zulfi hansi]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I have a different take on this: an RS5 is a huge depreciating asset and I don't know about you but I wouldn't be comfortable blowing that kind of cash on a used sports saloon that is going to ask a lot from you in terms of maintenance and then not even reward you with good resale value, unless I can afford to buy it brand new.

I would do such a thing only when I have the finances to buy a brand new car and even then I'd take a long hard look at lease options.

Alternatively, you can search for something like an E46 M3 which ought to be far cheaper to buy therefore easier on the wallet to maintain and should give you the thrills of owning a sports saloon but also reward you with decent resale value few years down the line. Such cars are appreciating in value and it's always nice to be able to buy an iconic one like the M3.

Apart from looking at lease options and sourcing an appreciating classic like the E46 M3, here's an offbeat option: considering you own an E class which is still extremely competitive in offering you a luxury experience, why not look into used Honda S2000s? It is as pure as a sports car as you will find and being a Japanese import, parts will never be too difficult to source and any garage with a team that goes out to all these drag race and offroading events, should be able to help you maintain it easily.

I think its better I forget my fantasies of these exotic cars for now. Buying a sports car which is more than 7 years old is a very risky proposition considering the profile of customers that they have gone through. I am sure 99% of the owners of these cars are very wealthy guys who bought these for their son/daughter and never really were interested in driving or knowing about it. India is still not to a point where 35+ guys buying such cars and taking very good care of it retaining them for at least 3-7 years. Most of these cars are second owner in just 3 years. I would certainly consider a M3 or Boxter but just no cars available which are in good condition and priced right past 7 years of their life.

Originally Posted by rdst_1

If you can't stomach the depreciation, then you would be better off buying reliable practical cars which have good resale values.
Or move to a country where such cars are not priced as exorbitantly as in India.

True. But reliable, good resale, practical cars and German don't go well, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by nikhil_pon

There are multiple things going on here:
i think 1st you need to narrow down your options and focus on the car you want to buy say in couple of months. I know cars are a passion for many of us and always confuses with all the options especially in the used car market with a pretty good budget of 30lakhs.
The starting of the thread you mentioned budget of 30lakhs so it will be wise to be close to this figure. The RS5 is probably not the right car for you at the moment based on your posts above.
You having a daily drive of the E280 which came with a V6 engine, the benchmark for your next car is very high in terms of performance and the sheer ease and muscle of a V6 engine.
From the current crop of cars a BMW530d would be a good upgrade from your current car. Offcourse the back seat is not spacious but you will forget all this once in the driver seat. Problem is in Blore getting a well maintained bmw530d of 2013 and above under 35 lakh looks pretty tough.
Also there used to sell Audi S5 / S4 which if you able to find in Blore will be a pretty decent upgrade from the E280. These are not full blown performance cars but will keep you happy with the power and daily driver car experience.
Regarding your option SUVs, new Skoda Kodiaq should come in your budget. You will get the new car feel but not the same finesse of MB/ BMW. However in terms of performance a used BMW X3 (say 2012 model, 2l engine) should be similar to the Kodiaq (2l petrol or diesel).
If you stretch your budget then you might find a used BMWX6 (you will be happy with the performance and space offered)
Currently i am in US and seeing the Jeep Compass here i am not convinced that it will sell well if priced above 22lak OTR. Fiat/ Jeep brand image doesnt help its cause too.

Blore luxury market not having same options like Mumbai, Delhi etc and prices quoted by dealers are pretty high.
Patience is the key in luxury used car market, keep chipping away at prospective cars till you are convinced.

For your dad, as mentioned by other members above, the X1 looks like a pretty good option. stretch couple of laks more and for around 17 -18 you might find the 2013 new model with lighter steering.

Petro heads can really go nuts even if the budget doesn't permit. I was thinking of taking a loan for 50% of the money for the RS5, and later realized that I will have to endure 45L in depreciation and upkeep cost in just 3 years of ownership. Which is nuts for me at the moment in life. May be the time is not yet come.

Performance of a V6 / I6 is certainly the basic need. Sadly I am hardly experiencing any of it in Bangalore traffic, but on highways yes, about 3 times a year. That said, finding a 2011 and above 530d in Bangalore under 30L is still a big deal, let alone 2013 and above. S4/S5 if I find one, will be a good option, none available in Bangalore right now.

Kodiaq will not fit my bill, and it will never be comparable to X3 with any engine. I am very much open to take a X3, sadly again none available in Bangalore. Except the unregistered demo which is priced crazy by Navnit. Don't like the looks of the X6 but will still buy for the performance and space, again only 2008-10 cars in the price range of 45-60L are available, not worth spending 45L on a 9 years old X6.

I am sure the Compass will be priced above 32L OTR in Bangalore, nothing below that, I had expectations from this car, in the 4X4 form, just toying with the idea though, in any case I may have to wait to find a good car beyond June so let's see how it turns out to be. Still not coming to terms with going from MB to Jeep!

For my Dad I too think it's best to zero down on X1, I am willing to up the budget if I find the right car. I don't see any other option of a high GC premium car under 5 years old and low run available under 18L. Patience is inevitable presence and not a choice for me, so be it.

My E280 still gives me all the pleasures without a fuss like a wife who is highly cultured and aristocratic upbringing, who knows I am looking for younger fun, while she makes sure I don't get a single reason to change her, except that she is getting old.

[Kontoo]

My E280 still gives me all the pleasures without a fuss like a wife who is highly cultured and aristocratic upbringing, who knows I am looking for younger fun, while she makes sure I don't get a single reason to change her, except that she is getting old.[/quote]

Nicely articulated.
So what car(s) did you finally buy?
I have the same predicament and am looking to upgrade from a Volvo V40 CC to another car and I could exactly relate to your situation. I have also come across a "supercar" and am not sure if I should take the plunge.
Anyway, let's see how it goes.

[zulfi hansi]

Originally Posted by Kontoo

Nicely articulated.
So what car(s) did you finally buy?
I have the same predicament and am looking to upgrade from a Volvo V40 CC to another car and I could exactly relate to your situation. I have also come across a "supercar" and am not sure if I should take the plunge.
Anyway, let's see how it goes.

Thanks. I have still not bought anything, after demonetization and now GST, just no X1s in the market, plenty of C Class though, but not sure if it is the right one for my Dad, I feel it is a little low for him and he is a little over weight plus knees are old.

For myself I guess the E280 made a great case for itself just like the wife, decided to keep it a little longer, it has just done about 65k kms, which is not a big deal for it. Might as well go ahead and buy a Tesla 3 years down the line. I really don't know buddy, know only one feeling that I still don't like giving my E280, as yet. Tesla 3 will be a Supercar and a practical car together, what say.