Help required for rich bass in Esteem

kiran1103 · 24th January 2006, 09:40

Hi Bhpians,

Needless to say that I have found all the necessary information from your wonderfully organised forum. I own an Esteem VXPS and reside at Bangalore and moving to Hyderabad in couple of days. My passion of rich pass still remains a dream even after spending heck of money on my audio system. My configuration is as below :

1. Poineer 7650
2. TS-20 Tweeters at front
3. Poineer 4 channel amp 400W (exact model no. I forgot, but it has big fins all round)
4. Pioneer Mono Block Amp M510 D Class 1000w
6. 6X9 Poineer 330 w rear speaker.
7. Poineer 305 Sub 600w free air
8. 1 Poineer 306c 1000w enclosure type.

I had installed all these on advice of one shop in bangalore near Lifestyle, now you guys know where from.

The two subs are enclosed in a ported model box with two subs facing outside and the ports facing upwards. The rear channel is connected to Mono block amp.

Even after tuning and many options which i tried, I do not get the rich bass and jarrs a lot on turning the volume up.

My doubts are is the free air sub a culprit for being eclosed, should I change the 600w one to 1000w enclosure type, but it will be 2000w in total drawing power from 1000w amp.

Is the ported box which is made locally the culprit and one of my friend advised for a another type of box where the subs are installed inside and only the outlets are visible, i think its called band pass box, if I am right. Should I change it to that type of box.

Please advice me as I am tried of experimenting so much. I always go by words of the dealer and end up disappointed and they again advice on much more costlier things. Please Please advice on next action which would suffice my dream of good bass.

Thanks in advance to all Bhpians

KIRAN

navin · 24th January 2006, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiran1103

Hi Bhpians,

6. 6X9 Poineer 330 w rear speaker.
7. Poineer 305 Sub 600w free air
8. 1 Poineer 306c 1000w enclosure type.

The two subs are enclosed in a ported model box with two subs facing outside and the ports facing upwards. The rear channel is connected to Mono block amp.

Even after tuning and many options which i tried, I do not get the rich bass and jarrs a lot on turning the volume up.

My doubts are is the free air sub a culprit for being eclosed, should I change the 600w one to 1000w enclosure type, but it will be 2000w in total drawing power from 1000w amp.

Is the ported box which is made locally the culprit and one of my friend advised for a another type of box where the subs are installed inside and only the outlets are visible, i think its called band pass box, if I am right. Should I change it to that type of box.

1. A picture or 2 would help us see what you got.

not having the above picture here are a list of things you shoudl consider

a. Are the 12" subs acoustically isolated from the 6x9" in the rear deck. If not I suspect the jarring is the 6x9's being pushed to their physical limits by the 12". In any cae it is best to isolate the 6x9 it will improve their midrange performance.

b. you for a 305F and a 306C working in the same box? Why did you buy 2 different woofers. While I dont think this is the cause of the jarring having 2 woofer with significanlt different T/S parameters wont give you the best bass.

c. While the system is playing try and locate the source of teh jarring. gently touch all posible soruces (6x9 cone, woofer box, rear deck, port etc..) and seeif touching one of these reduces or eliminates the jarring. I wont be surprised if someting other than the woofer cones is shaking.

d. A speaker can only draw as much current/voltage as an amp and deliver. After which the amp will clip. Since these are woofers they are not likely to get damanged without complaing (significant high order distortion). However try turning the gain down on the woofer amp aand see what happens. Upgrading to a "2000W" amp might not given you any significant advantage.

Bandpass boxes are not known for their quality of bass. In any case with your odd combination of woofers I wonder what sort of bass you'd get.

kiran1103 · 24th January 2006, 12:31

[SIZE=2]Hi Navin, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Thanks a million for the reply, I have done many of the steps which u suggested. I will definately post the pics of my sub boxes for more clarity in isolating the issue. The 6X9 speakers are mounted on 1 3/4 mdf board in the rear and subs are enclosed in one box with two partitions and kept in the boot. The rear board is cut in square where the bass ports and facing. Anyway pics will help u a lot, I will post the pics shortly as I am in Hyderabad now. The main thing is the bass is not neat its somewhat irritating. By the way is the Poineer Mono block 510M a good choice. Anyway i have already invested on it so need to keep it. I have also tried connecting one 600w F sub to the 4 channel amp brigdging it and other 1000W to the Mono block but i dont find much difference and it jarrs more. Maybe i am using a wrong word jarr, it should be like the bass is not of good thump or neat, just somewhat iritating. When i hear some others cars audio i feel they sound better. Dunno how that too without a mono block amp. The subs i bought for 3500, now the dealer lures me for taking some hig end subs costing some 7500 each and another mono block amp. But my feeling is that some people with the same subs sound better. so whats wrong in my setup is the main worry. Hope u will throw more light on this. By the way your info is a lot helpful not only for me but all the bhpians and visitors.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]KIRAN[/SIZE]

navin · 24th January 2006, 12:52

ok try the following. try stuffing the bass ports with cloth and see if teh bass jarring reduces. this will also reduce the level of the bass but what we are trying to do is first improve the quality of the bass and then try to increase the quantity of the bass.

Vivekphadnis · 24th January 2006, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

ok try the following. try stuffing the bass ports with cloth and see if teh bass jarring reduces. this will also reduce the level of the bass but what we are trying to do is first improve the quality of the bass and then try to increase the quantity of the bass.

Aperiodic, one of Navin's favourites.

kiran1103 · 24th January 2006, 14:49

Yes will also try this sir.

navin · 24th January 2006, 16:28

Aperiodic allows one tu tune the bass in a simple manner to suit your tastes, the enviroment and the drivers used.

There are other configurations that allow this but require far more complex engineering and knowledge of acoustics.

24th January 2006, 09:40	#1
kiran1103 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore/London Posts: 126 Thanked: Once	Help required for rich bass in Esteem Hi Bhpians, Needless to say that I have found all the necessary information from your wonderfully organised forum. I own an Esteem VXPS and reside at Bangalore and moving to Hyderabad in couple of days. My passion of rich pass still remains a dream even after spending heck of money on my audio system. My configuration is as below : 1. Poineer 7650 2. TS-20 Tweeters at front 3. Poineer 4 channel amp 400W (exact model no. I forgot, but it has big fins all round) 4. Pioneer Mono Block Amp M510 D Class 1000w 6. 6X9 Poineer 330 w rear speaker. 7. Poineer 305 Sub 600w free air 8. 1 Poineer 306c 1000w enclosure type. I had installed all these on advice of one shop in bangalore near Lifestyle, now you guys know where from. The two subs are enclosed in a ported model box with two subs facing outside and the ports facing upwards. The rear channel is connected to Mono block amp. Even after tuning and many options which i tried, I do not get the rich bass and jarrs a lot on turning the volume up. My doubts are is the free air sub a culprit for being eclosed, should I change the 600w one to 1000w enclosure type, but it will be 2000w in total drawing power from 1000w amp. Is the ported box which is made locally the culprit and one of my friend advised for a another type of box where the subs are installed inside and only the outlets are visible, i think its called band pass box, if I am right. Should I change it to that type of box. Please advice me as I am tried of experimenting so much. I always go by words of the dealer and end up disappointed and they again advice on much more costlier things. Please Please advice on next action which would suffice my dream of good bass. Thanks in advance to all Bhpians KIRAN
	() Thanks

24th January 2006, 12:31	#3
kiran1103 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore/London Posts: 126 Thanked: Once	[SIZE=2]Hi Navin, [/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Thanks a million for the reply, I have done many of the steps which u suggested. I will definately post the pics of my sub boxes for more clarity in isolating the issue. The 6X9 speakers are mounted on 1 3/4 mdf board in the rear and subs are enclosed in one box with two partitions and kept in the boot. The rear board is cut in square where the bass ports and facing. Anyway pics will help u a lot, I will post the pics shortly as I am in Hyderabad now. The main thing is the bass is not neat its somewhat irritating. By the way is the Poineer Mono block 510M a good choice. Anyway i have already invested on it so need to keep it. I have also tried connecting one 600w F sub to the 4 channel amp brigdging it and other 1000W to the Mono block but i dont find much difference and it jarrs more. Maybe i am using a wrong word jarr, it should be like the bass is not of good thump or neat, just somewhat iritating. When i hear some others cars audio i feel they sound better. Dunno how that too without a mono block amp. The subs i bought for 3500, now the dealer lures me for taking some hig end subs costing some 7500 each and another mono block amp. But my feeling is that some people with the same subs sound better. so whats wrong in my setup is the main worry. Hope u will throw more light on this. By the way your info is a lot helpful not only for me but all the bhpians and visitors.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]KIRAN[/SIZE]
	() Thanks

24th January 2006, 12:52	#4
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	ok try the following. try stuffing the bass ports with cloth and see if teh bass jarring reduces. this will also reduce the level of the bass but what we are trying to do is first improve the quality of the bass and then try to increase the quantity of the bass.
	() Thanks

24th January 2006, 14:49	#6
kiran1103 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore/London Posts: 126 Thanked: Once	Yes will also try this sir.
	() Thanks

24th January 2006, 16:28	#7
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	Aperiodic allows one tu tune the bass in a simple manner to suit your tastes, the enviroment and the drivers used. There are other configurations that allow this but require far more complex engineering and knowledge of acoustics.
	() Thanks