[navin]

All I can do is offer sympathy.

[raul]

Hi Navin, good to see you here. I have a question for you. I am planning to take the car to a reputed pune based installer to review the damage and see what amends can be made. Any advice for me, for instance do I move the speakers from the hatch to a mdf tray an cover the hatch with the original maruti provided fibre board. Also the rear speakers he's given me are JBL 935e (2990) which is a 3 year discontinued model, should i change them. The front ones are Alpine sps 10c2 for 2.4k. I just want to get this over with.

[speedsatya]

Originally Posted by raul

Hi guys,

. Also I was totally ignorant about the warranty(extended 4 year, car is 2003 Sept model) becoming null if you fit the audio from outside.

.

your extended warranty only on electricals will be void only if there is a problem arising due to that audio install ...so there shudnt be a problem ...about the resale value it shouldnt be a big issue ....i think the zen hatch costs 7k ...not sure though

[Sam Kapasi]

So now, what happened next? We are waiting to know.

[raul]

Hi guys, was too tied up at work, will be going to a pro today to review and make amends. Lets see what he says. I initially did this on a whim with a unrealistic budget of 6k and I paid the price. I ended up spending 12.6k.
I have already gone through a fair bit of hassle and I will let things be if they are ok. If i have to change the back speakers to 936 then I will probaably change the front to 426 too. For the front I currently have Alpine sps-10c2 4" for 2.4k which are ok, certaily better than the Pioneer and Sony I listened to. Is the 426 better than this Alpine one.

[raul]

ok guys, I have some feedback.

1. About the Zen hatchdoor install, this is ok for sound quality but many people are reluctant to cut into the hatch so an mdf replacement for the tray is preferable.

2. The installation is not good, the wiring is done by an amateur. It needs to be redone

3. JBL GTO935e are good speakers but are an older discontinued model.

4. The Alpine 4 inch coaxials upfront SPS-10c2 are also good speakers but in my install are distorting. When fad and bal are put exclusively on right front on about 20-30 volume you can hear the distortion clearly. The HU is Pioneer 4850.

I spoke to my original installer and he will replace whatever I want. I have a few questions now.

1. Do I refit the back speakers on an mdf tray relacement, now that the damage on the hatch is already done or should I let it be

2. I will get the wiring done at Pune Auto at East street who are supposed to be good. Any references or other recomendations?

3. Should I replace the JBL GTO 935e to 936e. So far the 935e don't sound bad but I dont want hassles later on.

4. Whats up with the Alpine upfront. They sound like good speakers. Is it an install error or a defective set to be changed. Should I change it to JBL GTO 426. Do those sound better.

[raul]

Hi Guys, an update on the install.

I have got the install reviewed by a more professional installer. Its not bad but could do with improvement especially the wiring and the end connections. The rear hatch speaker install is a bad idea in the first place but once the damage is done its better to stick with it. I am reconsidering this because at about 25-30 volume the hatch door with the glass starts vibrating and you can see this happening in the rear view mirror, but will change to a tray install next month.

Now take this next bit with a big pinch of salt, the original installer probably has dubious parts and my listening isn't refined. He changed the JBL GTO 935E that he had installed earlier (3 year old model) to the newer model GTO 936E model on my insistence and I absoluted hated it, too much bass and no clarity or punch, just boom compared to the JBL GTO 935e. I tried the Alpine SPS-690A too, it was better, more warm and melodic but also strangely a wee bit metallic. The Alpines would also cost 1600 extra with B&W and 100 more without and since 6x9 anyway are a bad idea I decided to stick with the original JBL GTO 935E. That sounded more crisp and clear to me with precise and sharp bass and generally more clear sounding music. The Alpine SPS-10C2 stopped distorting just when I showed it to him, what luck. But I like the Alpine 4 inches, I think they sound good. Overall after getting the install totally reviewed and repaired by a pro installer next month I will be pretty happy with this 12.6k install.

Thanks to all the board members for the support allround.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by raul

Now take this next bit with a big pinch of salt, the original installer probably has dubious parts and my listening isn't refined. He changed the JBL GTO 935E that he had installed earlier (3 year old model) to the newer model GTO 936E model on my insistence and I absoluted hated it, too much bass and no clarity or punch, just boom compared to the JBL GTO 935e.

I decided to stick with the original JBL GTO 935E. That sounded more crisp and clear to me with precise and sharp bass and generally more clear sounding music.

Of course, to each his own. But I assure you this is either done by mistake, or purpose, but there is no way that the 935 sounded so much better than the 936. Trust me I'm in the perfect position to comment on this one. - Either you have a very bad installer or an extremely clever one.

In any case, the 935 was a good speaker too, for it's time. It's not a bad deal, but the main reason why I reacted is that you have purchased a speaker that has been manufactured 3 to 4 years ago. And has been lying with the dealer since then.

The 936e was built up on the 935e, just like the 937 is built up on the 936e.
Its R&D and development that causes themodel change, which happens approximately every 3 to 4 years, in the case of any good speaker company (Unlike some companies that will change a speaker very slightly, or cosmetically, to get a new LATEST product out in the market)

[raul]

All reseach and user opinion on this board sugests the JBL GTO 936e are very good and they were my orginal choice along with JBL GTO 426e. I was surprised by what he installed and I have to admit I immediately thought they were fake. This is why in my newbie guide I stressed on the importance of choosing a good installer. All the knowledge on this board comes to naught if you don't get that right and I got mired in a cycle of incompetence and dubious parts, for instance I cannot be sure the JBL 935e i have are original in the first place. And I'm a bit fed up of the whole thing and I will just move on but next time I will be very careful.

[navin]

Originally Posted by raul

...The rear hatch speaker install is a bad idea in the first place...
Now take this next bit with a big pinch of salt, the original installer probably has dubious parts and my listening isn't refined. He changed the JBL GTO 935E that he had installed earlier (3 year old model) to the newer model GTO 936E model on my insistence and I absoluted hated it, too much bass and no clarity or punch, just boom compared to the JBL GTO 935e.

I tried the Alpine SPS-690A too, it was better, more warm and melodic but also strangely a wee bit metallic. The Alpines would also cost 1600 extra with B&W and 100 more without and since 6x9 anyway are a bad idea I decided to stick with the original JBL GTO 935E. That sounded more crisp and clear to me with precise and sharp bass and generally more clear sounding music......

The 936 is derived from the 935. Now I have not studied the specs of either and have only heard the 936 (on an MDF tray) but am willing to bet that the 936 was designed to work in a significantly different box volume as the 935. The BOOM you hear is PROBABLY due to fact that by accident the rear hatch volume suits the 935 more than the 936.

In the install I heard the 936's bass was reasonably tight but I do agree that it dropped of significantly below 40Hz or so. I also heard an Alpine 690A is a simialr install (MDF deck but different car) and the prefered the 690A's hf to the 936. THen again JBL sells it's speaker on it's extended high frequencies. I prefer a very laid back hf so my preferences might differ from most here. Rememeber some months back I modified an Infinity component's XO to reduce HF my taste and even out of the box Infinity is more laid back than JBL (BTW both brands are owned by the same company).

The human ear is more refined than you thnk. If you do not believe me try this...
a) take 20 babies in a room
b) keep their mothers at the opposite end of the same room and even in a room next door and blind fold them and involve them in a conversation or soap opera.
c) pinch any one baby so that he/she cries
d) I bet you cant tell one baby's cry from anothers but only the mother whose baby is crying will get up to soothe/check on her child. The other 19 wont even move or flinch.

I have used my wife's and sister's ears to give me feedback on vry small changes (as small as 0.5db) in XO networks. Neither is an audiophile or educated in acoustics.

So trust your ears.

Originally Posted by raul

All reseach and user opinion on this board sugests the JBL GTO 936e are very good and they were my orginal choice along with JBL GTO 426e. I was surprised by what he installed and I have to admit I immediately thought they were fake. This is why in my newbie guide I stressed on the importance of choosing a good installer....

Car Audio Installtion is NOT rocket science (sorry Gunbir and JB and all other installers). A good HONEST installer can do a perfectly decent job. If your installer sold you the 935e (we are not debating how good ro bad they are) claiming they are new models he/she was not fully HONEST with you.

Then again I see a lot of installers who know more than their client and try to avoid embarassing situations..examine this chain of events...
a) you go to the installer and say you want the "latest"
b) installer installs 936
c) you dont like the BOOM
d) installer offers older 935 saying ti might sound better in this install
e) you doubt if the older 935 are pre-owned etc.

I know many you only will buy "the latest". They rarely ask what will sound best in their install. When they do seek advice they are not willing to pay for it. So to dodge situations like this some installers just do what they feel is best for the client and do not make the client aware of what they have done for fear of loosing the client.

In any case you must buy what sounds good to you even if it means you prefer the 935 to the 936 or even the 937 (the 937 offers one to tailor the level of the HF albeit in a limited fashion). However since you are planning to get a MDF deck in the future I would advise asking your installer to get you to listen to the 935, 936, and 937 in a MDF rear deck (not nessacarily yours) and then you can decide what will like best once your MDF deckin insalled.

I am a purist. Everyone on this forum who has read my posts for a signicant time will tell you that. My puritanical instincts have been developed from listening to lots of live and studio work and some very expensive home audio equipment. So please take my comments with a table spoon of salt.

[Sam Kapasi]

Navin,

It is because of the preference of certain listeners like you, that the 937 comes with a switch on the HF.

[navin]

Wow! a speaker designed just for nutjobs like me! now I really hope it come with a ceramic, diamond, eliptical gold or honeycombed berilliyum dome tweeter (with a NdFeB magnet) and a cemaic come midrange and woofer (a la Accuton).

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by navin

Wow! a speaker designed just for nutjobs like me! now I really hope it come with a ceramic, diamond, eliptical gold or honeycombed berilliyum dome tweeter (with a NdFeB magnet) and a cemaic come midrange and woofer (a la Accuton).

Umm, I think they will consider the idea for the '8 series'. Or better still, maybe they could call it the JBL 'Navin' series. And I'm sure Sam can make a pitch for that, after all what are friends for, what say sam?

For now though, you have to be content with a button that sends your HF signal for a detour through some resistors.

[Autophile]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

For now though, you have to be content with a button that sends your HF signal for a detour through some resistors.

Maybe later berellium tweeter and midrange along with AlNiCo magnet bass driver. What say Sam ???

[Sam Kapasi]

Barabar hai baba log.

Very good. And all 2 and a half audiophiles in India will buy only JBL then

No boss, I think we are happy going for the gut.