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| Advice: ICE upgrade in stages I need some help in deciding a realistic upgrade to my current ICE setup. The car in question is an SUV and is my wife's car and her preference of music is mostly Bollywood and some fusion music. But this is also our touring vehicle and so I do get to play my choice of rock music as well. We're no hardcore audiophiles but having a good sound system is still our #1 priority since we travel quite a bit. The emphasis is always on sound quality both for the front as well as the rear seats. So here's the as-is situation: HU - The HU will remain out of scope for this upgrade - I've got no issues with it. Speakers - I currently have the Infinity Kappa components 62.7i at the front - The rear doors have the Infinity Kappa 62.9i 2-way speakers with onboard tweeters with crossovers Subwoofer - The current setup has the JBL 1000W 12-inch sub. This was retained from my old car and so it's done quite a bit of service by now. Lately I have heard some jarring sounds when there are faster and consecutive bass beats. I'm really not very happy about it and have to get this fixed in the upgrade. Can't say for sure if its the sub or the amp that is causing it, my guess is it's the sub but thats just from my limited understanding of the ICE systems. Amplifiers - The four speakers are powered with a Blaupunkt GTA 475 4ch AB Class Amp which has been with me for a few years now. It's been a good amp so far and no complaints, but I'm sure there are newer and possibly better options to explore. - The sub is powered by a JBL3501 mono amplifier. The power output of this amp is just about enough for the current sub, but not sure if it'd be enough if I plan an upgrade. Wiring - Wiring used has been mostly harness kits and good quality scosche or equivalent brands Here's what I'm thinking of the upgrade in order of my priority. This is where I need help on deciding: Upgrade #1 - Get a better 4ch Amplifier. Sadly, I won't have moolah to go for Audison and the likes but I was thinking more like the Infinity Kappa One. I'm open to other brands based on feedback and experiences but would like to keep the price in that range (20-25k approx) Upgrade #2 - Get a better subwoofer and enclosure. There are two options here, one to replace the current 12inch sub with another of the same size OR install two 8-inch subs for tighter bass and faster response times. Space isn't a big constraint since all this goes in the boot of an SUV, but I'd certainly avoid the bigger bulkier enclosures. Moreover, given my requirements of tighter bass sealed boxes would do better. I'm still going to be on a budget and that means I can stretch upto 15k. I understand that the two 8-inch setup would need me to extend, I can consider it based on situation but would like to keep it under the budget. Again, my logical choice has been the Infinity kappa 12inch sub, read all good things about it, but I'm generally biased towards the kappa and want to get opinions about other brands that can match the performance. Upgrade #3 - Change the mono amp to a higher model. The 3501 from what I understand was the most economical and VFM choice at the time when I installed it. I didn't want to go for any higher end models at that time. But if I upgrade the subwoofer, then maybe I'll also be left wanting to upgrade the mono amp to get best results. My choice is again the Kappa one, but thats coz most of the Kappa options fit within my budget as well. - No change to HU or the speakers is planned at this time Now, my list of questions - Does the three step upgrade make sense in the order that I have listed or I can try some other options? - What other brands will suit my needs and budget given that currently I'm so heavily biased towards the Infinity Kappa? - Will the double 8-inch sub make a lot of difference vs the single 12-inch? - Will the two sub setup need another separate mono-amp or I can run the two subs from a single amp? - Will the new and improved setup increase the power consumption that will overload the alternator of a Safari for example. Hoping to see some good advise coming from the ICE enthusiasts and gurus ![]() |
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BHPian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hibbing, MN
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
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Hope this helps ![]() Last edited by Diamond_dawg : 28th August 2013 at 19:23. | |||||
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![]() | #3 |
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages May I ask what HU are you using currently. Since your speakers and 4 channela amp is good, you can use it as it is. For Sub - Try checking out Infinity Kappa 120.9, its a good sub at a great price. Put this into a good sealed box and you will be a happy man. For Sub Amp - You can use your current amp for the time being and upgrade later or can upgrade to a better amp - many choices and you should be able to get a good one around 15K. For wires - I will suggest get them checked and see if they are good to serve you and if required change them to better ones. Also the reason why I asked about the HU was since its the source unit and it does makes a huge difference in how your music plays, so see if want to have a go at it. |
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The following BHPian Thanks invincible7 for this useful post: | amolpol |
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Senior - BHPian ![]() | Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Some pointers for you: 1. The Infinity Kappa 120.9 is a great buy. Its an SQ sub which works great in its (recommended) 1 cu ft sealed enclosure. Clean, tight bass. Part of my ICE setup. I hear good things about the Gladen Audio M-12 and RS12 subs too, though availability might be an issue. 2. In my opinion (as well as most online reviews), the IK4 shines provided you give it 350w RMS (its rated power) or more. My personal setup has an audison LRX 4.1 putting out 400w RMS (bridged mode) to the sub, and it sounds brilliant. In your case, the JBL 3501 puts out just 225w RMS in 4 ohms mode. So I'd strongly suggest get a higher rated mono. What price does the IK one come for? Also look at some Rockford Fosgate monos. Clean power at not so high budget. 3. In case you're not looking to upgrade your speakers, stick to your current amp. Its a good SQ amp producing very neutral sound. Heard it in Bhpian NOS Power's car. |
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BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
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Action 1 - Stick to 12inch subs. Get the Infinity Kappa 120.9 subwoofer with a 1 cuft sealed enclosure Action 2 - Upgrade to a bigger capacity mono amp, may be the Kappa One or Rockford fosgate Action 3 - Retain the Blaupunkt 4ch Amp (as pointed out by predatorwheelz and also the guys at Autoshop, it is one of the better amps of it's time and should last me for some more time). Upgrade only if the itch to spend money becomes severe ![]() Action 4 - Keep the current set of speakers (anyways the lowest priority on the upgrade list) Action 5 - Worry about the power drawn only if I run into issues after the install ![]() I currently have a Pio 7150UB head unit which has 3 pre-outs etc, there may be a kenwood unit I may use which has similar 3 pre-outs and a lot of other jazz. My basic requirement is to have 3 pre-outs so that I can control the front/rear and sub accordingly. I'd want the amp to do the work of distilling and amplifying the music that goes to the speakers and hence the question on whether the current GTA475 is good enough or should I upgrade it. | |||
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BHPian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hibbing, MN
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages
Do you happen to know what kinda wires were used? the gauge? and if its OFC wire or CCA? Last edited by Diamond_dawg : 29th August 2013 at 01:33. |
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BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
![]() I know that the wiring for power is done using standard harnesses like scosche so that there is no cutting involved etc. I'm not very sure on the brand or specs of the speaker wires, will have to check this. Is there a brand recommendation you have and the gauge to be used too. I have seen people using zero gauge wires for power and then using a distribution block, is that really helpful or its just more cosmetic than functional? | |
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BHPian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hibbing, MN
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
Was asking about the wiring use to wire both the Amps. OFC= Oxygen Free Copper and CCA = Copper Clad aluminium. In your case Zero gauge is not require but a good OFC brand 4 gauge would work best for your power requirements | |
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Distilling? ![]() GTA475 is a good amp. No point changing it unless the power is genuinely insufficient Last edited by DerAlte : 29th August 2013 at 15:20. | |||||||||||
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BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
Leaving the emotional part out for now, the need arised out of the fact that lately we have been listening to a lot of fusion and coke studio type of music with a lot of percussion instruments and the current setup isn't coping up with that too well. We're feeling that the bass is to heavy and jarring and I'm particularly missing the tightness of the bass. On some faster beats, the sub felt like it was gasping for breath and wasn't able to deliver the correct sound at all. I somehow feel that it's to do with the age of the subwoofer which is now done more than 7 years of service. I've also tried fiddling around with the subwoofer settings and also the gains adjustment on the mono-amp, but haven't been able to get the right setup that I want. Haha, even I don't know what made me write that. Let's just say it was too late in the night for me. ![]() I think what I may have intended though is that I'd want the amp to make sure that the sound quality is adjusted to my taste rather than relying heavily on the HU. In any case, the HU I'll be using will not be the entry level unit in either brands so I'm not very concerned about changing it. Quote:
![]() Though we play music loud enough to drown the engine noise of the truck, it's never so high so as to test the limits of the system. There may be times when I play it really loud but that's probably for one odd favorite when I'm alone in the car. Net-net, the max output etc will never be tested and hence the power from the GTA475 should be fairly sufficient to drive the Infinity Kappa components since both are rated at 75W RMS per speaker/channel. | ||
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Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
I have the 120.9 in my truck, and it faithfully reproduces anything that I play. When I played it in the 1cft box, it was really boomy for electronic, hip hop etc. I finally reduced box volume, and provided internal damping, by stuffing in a whole pillow! Loudness reduced a bit, but it is fast and faithful now. The actual volume now is ~0.8cft. Quote:
Even if you play very loud, you will not be reaching the limits - the actual consumption is less than that. If you play loud for a very long time, it might test the fuse limits, or the amp might cut out on overheating. | ||
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BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
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Now I must agree that the Safari has really thick gauge metal all across and damping is inherently pretty decent even without any bitumen/tar sheets. The comment about drowning the engine noise was just indicative to show how loud the music is played at most times. Agreed, and so the GTA475 shall remain in service for a while now. | ||
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Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
![]() What good damping does is to reduce noise so that the music content in the same frequency band stands out. This band, in the ~100-600Hz region, contains a lot of harmonics of low bass which actually convey punch. I understand the 'will do it later' part - been there, done that! ![]() | |
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BHPian ![]() | Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
I for one would have added my Mono amp budget to this and bought a Focal FPS 4160 or an Audison LRx 4.1k. the front two chanels can power the components and rears can be bridged to power a decent 12 inch subwoofer. Both these amps give out around 350 watts RMS when used in two channels bridged mode. Also Infinity Kappa Four is not the latest amp in the market, moreover its class D, though modern class D amps are as good as class AB, but the Kappa is the older one amongst these. If you want Class D, Hertz HDP series is the one to look at. Quote:
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Look at Rockford Fosgate for a decent Mono maybe, i have no experience with monos though. Quote:
2. have already suggested brands everywhere. 3 &4. I have no experience so cant comment! but a good sub with a good amp is adequate for most needs! 5. Again no idea about this. Also upgrading the HU will make a lot of difference, and so will Upgrading the Front components! HU is more important because no mater what amp you buy, if it doesnt get clean signals, it will not be good music! Cheers and all the best! | ||||
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| Re: Advice: ICE upgrade in stages Quote:
Since so many have already chimed in and you seem to have your Action plans pretty well sorted out there is not much I can add. 1. I have often maintained that damping is the best and most VFM upgrade so damp well. 2. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link and in a moving car the CD player is often that link. Think about it. A Car is moving, a CD is spinning it is a wonder that the laser can track the CD at all. I moved to ALAC on an iPod and have never looked back. I get album and artist tags and on a 160GB iPod I can fit a couple of hundred albums. Since I have a large collection of CDs I just spread my collection across multiple iPods. 3. Make sure all your power wires are in good shape. 4GA would be minimum for a set up such as yours. Your don't need to get fancy. Good ISI brand wire like Polycab or Finolex is very good. LBM aka "The Freed-a-bad Earthquake" also uses such simple cable and his power needs are many times yours and mine put together. Hope this helps. | |
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