woofer enclosures

santosh.s · 17th June 2007, 00:02

DerAlte, for contact details, refer to this post by our greatest guru (Navinji) in the greatest ICE thread-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...oku#post290855

I went to Audio/Auto Planet in Koramangala.
Regarding the website, it has been down for long... but don't go by that

When I went to Pune sometime back, I visited palesha's office, but unfortunately didn't meet him, met his brother instead. I am telling this because he gave me a brochure, and I can share it with anybody who is interested (PM me for any more details).

Sam Kapasi · 17th June 2007, 00:10

SO what you're saying is that Sumokoo boxes are not made of processed chip wood or MDF, but out of planks of wholesome wood?
Man, I'd love to see that. Made ANYWHERE. China or anywhere.

Chinese Labour is cheap. Wood is not. And china, malaysia etc have stopped making even furniture out of real wood. They're using alternative materials now. Cheaper and stronger.

santosh.s · 17th June 2007, 00:38

The brochure just says "wood", no adjectives or explanation. As I had said before, I didn't scrape the cover to see what is it. DerAlte in case you visit a showroom, kindly do the needful.

Regarding chinese stuff, I don't know too much except that their products are too cheap in general. They were know for bad quality and unreliability before, but things are definitely changing with time.

low_bass_makker · 17th June 2007, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by santosh.s

The brochure just says "wood", no adjectives or explanation. As I had said before, I didn't scrape the cover to see what is it. DerAlte in case you visit a showroom, kindly do the needful.

Regarding chinese stuff, I don't know too much except that their products are too cheap in general. They were know for bad quality and unreliability before, but things are definitely changing with time.

Santosh as I had posted earlier the one I have seen was also the trapezoidal boxes one and it was made up of MDF and not wood as I had seen it myself and heard it....it was ok ok but created a lot of boom....and it was loose sounding.....I would try to post the pics of the same if I could get hold of it...

If you have some info please post it on the forum so that every one can share...

santosh.s · 17th June 2007, 02:27

LBM, what you heard might have been other models, NOT DSW ones. They do have other models which look quite similar, but have nothing in common (amp, driver, and probably the enclosure itself). Needless to say, those must be cheaper too. I can scan relevant portion of the brochure for people's benefit, but that would be too OT here

May be we should instead request Navinji to reopen the relevant thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...hlight=soomoku

You seem to have just logged in... but I must sleep now. Its too late, though tomorrow is a Sunday... good night!

low_bass_makker · 17th June 2007, 02:57

Navin Ji I think we must Santosh a chance to post the brochures of the subs let us where is there in them...

DerAlte · 18th June 2007, 18:33

Maybe this is the correct thread to ask a really dumb question to the Gurus:
The logic of a rigid box for low-frequency drivers is understandable - prevent out of phase cancellation of the front wave, and manipulation of the system Q for the optimum response.

But, what will happen if we were to enclose the rear of the driver in an airtight leather bag with polyfill (imagine a bean-bag with the driver at the narrow end)? That would be acoustically opaque enough for the rear wave not to interfere with the front wave. The leather 'wall' would be pliant, so it wouln't form waves itself.
- Would that be an equiivalent of Infinite Baffle or Free Air?
- What will be the effect on the driver's frequency response?

(The scenario was triggered by the discussion on wood and MDF SW boxes)

santosh.s · 18th June 2007, 18:49

My gut feeling is that leather bag will be so flexible that it will pass on almost all of whatever acoustic energy reaches there to outside air (acoustically transparent like cloth covers in speakers). It will be more like acoustically shorted speaker, than anything else!

BTW, another dumb question: terms "free-air" and "infinite-baffle" must be synonymous, right? (just to confirm that free-air response doesn't mean response without any baffle!!)

low_bass_makker · 18th June 2007, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by santosh.s

My gut feeling is that leather bag will be so flexible that it will pass on almost all of whatever acoustic energy reaches there to outside air (acoustically transparent like cloth covers in speakers). It will be more like acoustically shorted speaker, than anything else!

BTW, another dumb question: terms "free-air" and "infinite-baffle" must be synonymous, right? (just to confirm that free-air response doesn't mean response without any baffle!!)

I agree with santosh here the leather bag will not work...it will pass all the energy and sub will behave like it is keep in the free air...

I the Infinte baffle one end of the sub is isolated from the other ...it is like a big sealed box with a very large volume..but again in a sealed box the volume is quite less which gives a spring action..so both the IB and sealed box sound different.

DerAlte · 18th June 2007, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by santosh.s

My gut feeling is that leather bag will be so flexible that it will pass on almost all of whatever acoustic energy reaches there to outside air (acoustically transparent like cloth covers in speakers). It will be more like acoustically shorted speaker, than anything else!

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

I agree with santosh here the leather bag will not work...it will pass all the energy and sub will behave like it is keep in the free air...

There is the resistance introduced (polyfill packing as well as the relative impermeability of leather), so it cannot be an acoustic short, right?
I would expect it to be a finite but variable impedance behind. Also, leather wouldn't produce a back wave the way, let's say, a plastic cabinet would.

Anyway to predict the frequency response? I am getting conphused with the equivalent electric circuit. I am not trying to built one, just an exercise out of curiosity - without being constrained by conventional thinking or conceit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

so both the IB and sealed box sound different.

Any clues how different would that be? Never tried it

Please don't say like Maggi Tomato Chilly Sauce!

low_bass_makker · 18th June 2007, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

There is the resistance introduced (polyfill packing as well as the relative impermeability of leather), so it cannot be an acoustic short, right?
I would expect it to be a finite but variable impedance behind. Also, leather wouldn't produce a back wave the way, let's say, a plastic cabinet would.

Anyway to predict the frequency response? I am getting conphused with the equivalent electric circuit. I am not trying to built one, just an exercise out of curiosity - without being constrained by conventional thinking or conceit.

Any clues how different would that be? Never tried it

Please don't say like Maggi Tomato Chilly Sauce!

the subwoofer reproduces sound by compressing the air....if we put it in a leather enclosure it will one inflate and deflate it and there will be no compression at all....

In a sealed and the IB install the purpose is to remove the waves which are coming from the back of the sub.that way in a sealed box proper sealing is done and in the IB install the boot is isolated from the cabin....but function of both the design is different.

In a sealed box the sound is tight fast and punch.....but in a infinte baffle the sound would be a bit boomy and will sound big and the punch will be a bit absent....

for rock music I would recommend a sealed box...and for Hip-hop I would recommend IB...

for both Rock and Hiphop go for a Ported one as I am using one.

it give both boom and punch tune it as you want it to run....

navin · 19th June 2007, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

I am getting old and senile. Forgive me.

Now you are stealing my line. If you are old and senile. I am dead, buried and probably reborn.

BTW Sanen too makes MDF boxes but they dont put woofers in them.

MDF is often called wood. There are better ways and materials to make speaker boxes but I dont want to scare the children :-)

navin · 19th June 2007, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by santosh.s

...I can scan relevant portion of the brochure for people's benefit, but that would be too OT here

May be we should instead request Navinji to reopen the relevant thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...hlight=soomoku

I am reopend this thread. post the borchures fast. I'll close it again in 12 hours to prevent it from getting hijcaked.

Sam Kapasi · 19th June 2007, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

I am reopend this thread. post the borchures fast. I'll close it again in 12 hours to prevent it from getting hijcaked.

umm... Navin, maybe you should go to sleep now. lol

OK guys, Sumokoo discussions now open for 12 hours

navin · 19th June 2007, 10:36

BTW just about every major speaker manufacturer makes boxes out of MDF so MDF is not a bad thing, just a cheap thing (compared to the stuff that Wilson Benesch and others use).

Now there are some speaker manufacturers that dont makes boxes for their speakers at all and the speakers are highly regarded (Dahlquist (in the 70s), Magneplanar, Martin Logan, etc...).

17th June 2007, 00:02	#61
santosh.s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,077 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	DerAlte, for contact details, refer to this post by our greatest guru (Navinji) in the greatest ICE thread- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...oku#post290855 I went to Audio/Auto Planet in Koramangala. Regarding the website, it has been down for long... but don't go by that When I went to Pune sometime back, I visited palesha's office, but unfortunately didn't meet him, met his brother instead. I am telling this because he gave me a brochure, and I can share it with anybody who is interested (PM me for any more details).
	() Thanks

17th June 2007, 00:10	#62
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	SO what you're saying is that Sumokoo boxes are not made of processed chip wood or MDF, but out of planks of wholesome wood? Man, I'd love to see that. Made ANYWHERE. China or anywhere. Chinese Labour is cheap. Wood is not. And china, malaysia etc have stopped making even furniture out of real wood. They're using alternative materials now. Cheaper and stronger.
	() Thanks

17th June 2007, 00:38	#63
santosh.s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,077 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	The brochure just says "wood", no adjectives or explanation. As I had said before, I didn't scrape the cover to see what is it. DerAlte in case you visit a showroom, kindly do the needful. Regarding chinese stuff, I don't know too much except that their products are too cheap in general. They were know for bad quality and unreliability before, but things are definitely changing with time.
	() Thanks

17th June 2007, 02:27	#65
santosh.s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,077 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	LBM, what you heard might have been other models, NOT DSW ones. They do have other models which look quite similar, but have nothing in common (amp, driver, and probably the enclosure itself). Needless to say, those must be cheaper too. I can scan relevant portion of the brochure for people's benefit, but that would be too OT here May be we should instead request Navinji to reopen the relevant thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...hlight=soomoku You seem to have just logged in... but I must sleep now. Its too late, though tomorrow is a Sunday... good night!
	() Thanks

17th June 2007, 02:57	#66
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	Navin Ji I think we must Santosh a chance to post the brochures of the subs let us where is there in them...
	() Thanks

18th June 2007, 18:33	#67
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	Maybe this is the correct thread to ask a really dumb question to the Gurus: The logic of a rigid box for low-frequency drivers is understandable - prevent out of phase cancellation of the front wave, and manipulation of the system Q for the optimum response. But, what will happen if we were to enclose the rear of the driver in an airtight leather bag with polyfill (imagine a bean-bag with the driver at the narrow end)? That would be acoustically opaque enough for the rear wave not to interfere with the front wave. The leather 'wall' would be pliant, so it wouln't form waves itself. - Would that be an equiivalent of Infinite Baffle or Free Air? - What will be the effect on the driver's frequency response? (The scenario was triggered by the discussion on wood and MDF SW boxes)
	() Thanks

18th June 2007, 18:49	#68
santosh.s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,077 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	My gut feeling is that leather bag will be so flexible that it will pass on almost all of whatever acoustic energy reaches there to outside air (acoustically transparent like cloth covers in speakers). It will be more like acoustically shorted speaker, than anything else! BTW, another dumb question: terms "free-air" and "infinite-baffle" must be synonymous, right? (just to confirm that free-air response doesn't mean response without any baffle!!) Last edited by santosh.s : 18th June 2007 at 18:54.
	() Thanks

19th June 2007, 10:36	#75
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,198 Thanked: 9,302 Times	BTW just about every major speaker manufacturer makes boxes out of MDF so MDF is not a bad thing, just a cheap thing (compared to the stuff that Wilson Benesch and others use). Now there are some speaker manufacturers that dont makes boxes for their speakers at all and the speakers are highly regarded (Dahlquist (in the 70s), Magneplanar, Martin Logan, etc...).
	() Thanks