Suggestion + Upgrade my system

smreddy · 7th July 2006, 14:07

Hi,

My exisitng setup to my accent is Pioneer HU 6850 JBL 937, Infinity component speakers + tweeters. When i increase the bass, i get lot of thuds in front due to components. Suggest how to get rid of this ?

How will sony 504 amp make difference to the exisitng system?
If i get ampl installed will i require woofer or sub woofer?

Appreciate your help.

cheers,
srinath

Sam Kapasi · 7th July 2006, 14:24

Hi!

I assume you are using the components in the front with no amplifier. You need to use a HPF (High pass filter- cut at about 80-100 Hz).
I think you can also do this with your HU. Read the manual.
Adding any amplifier will make a big difference to the quality of sound. The Sony 504 is a decent VFM amplifer.

Having a subwoofer is your choice. It will complete and round off the bass/bottom end of your sound well.

Technocrat · 7th July 2006, 14:44

SAM do you mean to say that a following kind of system:

Decent HU + Front comps

will sound better as in better base\treble\Clarity if its powered by an amp ?

I am asking becaue a friend would be going for a HU + front comps setup & he values SQ over SPL & I was wondering if putting an amp would be any good as my friend thinks & so do I that it will only increase volume which he doesnt want.

Sam Kapasi · 7th July 2006, 14:51

If your friend is using ONLY front compos and a HU, he will surely feel a lack of Bass.
However that said, he isn't entirely wrong. If the volume is low, you may not percieve a difference.
In fact if you buy a really cheap amplifier, at low volumes, you may find your HU (if it's a nice one) amplifier to sound better. But yes, at slightly higher volumes, a nice amplifier will improve the headroom, tonal quality and reduce clippping etc. Overall make the "feel" of the components better.

navin · 7th July 2006, 15:50

Often you miss it onl after you are used to it. Case in point my Father in law has an alpine HU and 4 JBL 636 in the 4 doors of his Swift. One day I added a small 2ch. amp and a pair of Blau 6.5" woofers (u dont call 6.5" drivers subwoofers) and he felt the difference not only in the bass but also the JBL 636 were sounding cleaner (since I had activated the HPF and they had to produce less bass).

Then I removed the Blau subs and he hated it. He told me that untill he heard what a sub can do in a car (and the Blau 6.5can hardly be called subs) he did not know he'd miss them so much. So now I'm putting them back in.

Technocrat · 7th July 2006, 16:31

Hmm So which one of these Configs would you guys recomend:

1)
HU(Pioneer)
Front comps
2 channel amp

2)
HU(Pioneer)
Front comps
Rear Speaker(any decent make which are not expensive like the pioneer 6X9)
4 channel amp

3)
HU(Pioneer)
Front comps
4 channel amp
A sub

The idea is to have a system which is not too expensive yet can be blasted once in while but would mostly be used for not so loud listening with SQ

How are the 2 channel amp from Sony(they are kinda cheap so asking)

I hope I am not stealing this thread

rsjaurr · 7th July 2006, 16:46

Technocrat,option 3 would be best one for ur needs,though most expensive of all followed closely by 2.

Tool · 7th July 2006, 20:56

hey technocrat.. umm go with option number 2.. because in option number 3 you havent included anything for your rear fill.. for the time being i'd suggest going with compos in the front.. co-ax in the back and a decent 4 channel amp... later you can upgrade to a subwoofer and use the rear 2 channels of the amp to run the subwoofer and the rest 2 channels to run the front compos. and then you can use the Hu amplifier to power the rear coax speakers..or here is another option.. keep the 4 channel amp running the speakers front and back.. and later buy a cheap 2 channel sony amp and subwoofwer.. you can run the sony in bridged mode to power just the subwoofer...
hope this helped.. boom

jkdas · 7th July 2006, 21:10

1)
HU(Pioneer) 5850: 7.3k (grey)
Front comps: 6k
2 channel amp: 3.5k (sony 502)
cable + install: 1.5k
tot: 18.3

2)
HU(Pioneer) 5850: 7.3k (grey)
Front comps: 6k
Rear Speaker: 4.5k
4 channel amp: 4.5k ; sony 504z
cable + install: 2k
tot: 24k

3)
HU(Pioneer) 5850: 7.3k (grey)
Front comps: 6k
4 channel amp: 4.5k ; sony 504z
cable + install: 2k
A sub: 7k-8k ( sub + box or box sux or tube)
tot: 27k

Jay · 7th July 2006, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Hmm So which one of these Configs would you guys recomend:

1)
HU(Pioneer)
Front comps
2 channel amp

2)
HU(Pioneer)
Front comps
Rear Speaker(any decent make which are not expensive like the pioneer 6X9)
4 channel amp

3)
HU(Pioneer)
Front comps
4 channel amp
A sub

In the above options i would ask you to go for the 2nd option as option 3 without Rear speakers would'nt sound good...

speedzak · 7th July 2006, 21:57

JK's second option is the best! And add a sub later.

If you're very much in need of a SUB rather than rear speakers, then option 3 looks good! And add rear speakers later.

For an overall round and filled soundstage, you need some rear fill. Even a normal 6" co-axial will do the job.

BTW, why has JK mentioned HU with the setup? He owns a 6850 is'nt it??

jkdas · 7th July 2006, 22:30

its for Techo not smreddy

for smreddy a 504 driving frnt compos set with HPF at 80Hz and a sub driven by bridged 2 channel of teh 504 in LPF at 80Hz would do.

smreddy · 7th July 2006, 22:46

Currently HPF is having null, will change to 80hz and check it out. What exactly does this HPF mean?
How much does the 504 amp costs? Will there be any major wiring required for adding the amp? I am planning to get this installed on the wooden plank holding the rear speakers. Is this good enough or have some other suggestions. Should the amp be connected to all the speakers ?

reddy

Sam Kapasi · 8th July 2006, 15:21

HPF= High Pass Filter. Allows the highs and mids to get through, stops the lows (bass)

navin · 10th July 2006, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by smreddy

How much does the 504 amp costs? Will there be any major wiring required for adding the amp? I am planning to get this installed on the wooden plank holding the rear speakers. Is this good enough or have some other suggestions. Should the amp be connected to all the speakers ?

1. the 504 runs about 4-5K
2. it has 4 channels any 2 of which can be bridged so you can make it a 2, 3 or 4 channel amp.

common configs are: 2 ch mode for 2 subs, 3 ch. mode for 1 sub and a pair of speakers (either rear or front) and 4 ch. mode for front and rear speakers only. You cannot connect 1 sub and 4 speakers to the 504 safely.

7th July 2006, 14:07	#1
smreddy Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 24 Thanked: 0 Times	Suggestion + Upgrade my system Hi, My exisitng setup to my accent is Pioneer HU 6850 JBL 937, Infinity component speakers + tweeters. When i increase the bass, i get lot of thuds in front due to components. Suggest how to get rid of this ? How will sony 504 amp make difference to the exisitng system? If i get ampl installed will i require woofer or sub woofer? Appreciate your help. cheers, srinath
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 14:24	#2
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	Hi! I assume you are using the components in the front with no amplifier. You need to use a HPF (High pass filter- cut at about 80-100 Hz). I think you can also do this with your HU. Read the manual. Adding any amplifier will make a big difference to the quality of sound. The Sony 504 is a decent VFM amplifer. Having a subwoofer is your choice. It will complete and round off the bass/bottom end of your sound well.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 14:44	#3
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	SAM do you mean to say that a following kind of system: Decent HU + Front comps will sound better as in better base\treble\Clarity if its powered by an amp ? I am asking becaue a friend would be going for a HU + front comps setup & he values SQ over SPL & I was wondering if putting an amp would be any good as my friend thinks & so do I that it will only increase volume which he doesnt want.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 14:51	#4
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	If your friend is using ONLY front compos and a HU, he will surely feel a lack of Bass. However that said, he isn't entirely wrong. If the volume is low, you may not percieve a difference. In fact if you buy a really cheap amplifier, at low volumes, you may find your HU (if it's a nice one) amplifier to sound better. But yes, at slightly higher volumes, a nice amplifier will improve the headroom, tonal quality and reduce clippping etc. Overall make the "feel" of the components better.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 15:50	#5
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	Often you miss it onl after you are used to it. Case in point my Father in law has an alpine HU and 4 JBL 636 in the 4 doors of his Swift. One day I added a small 2ch. amp and a pair of Blau 6.5" woofers (u dont call 6.5" drivers subwoofers) and he felt the difference not only in the bass but also the JBL 636 were sounding cleaner (since I had activated the HPF and they had to produce less bass). Then I removed the Blau subs and he hated it. He told me that untill he heard what a sub can do in a car (and the Blau 6.5can hardly be called subs) he did not know he'd miss them so much. So now I'm putting them back in.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 16:31	#6
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Hmm So which one of these Configs would you guys recomend: 1) HU(Pioneer) Front comps 2 channel amp 2) HU(Pioneer) Front comps Rear Speaker(any decent make which are not expensive like the pioneer 6X9) 4 channel amp 3) HU(Pioneer) Front comps 4 channel amp A sub The idea is to have a system which is not too expensive yet can be blasted once in while but would mostly be used for not so loud listening with SQ How are the 2 channel amp from Sony(they are kinda cheap so asking) I hope I am not stealing this thread
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 16:46	#7
rsjaurr BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Batala Posts: 777 Thanked: 28 Times	Technocrat,option 3 would be best one for ur needs,though most expensive of all followed closely by 2. Last edited by rsjaurr : 7th July 2006 at 17:01.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 20:56	#8
Tool BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 351 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	hey technocrat.. umm go with option number 2.. because in option number 3 you havent included anything for your rear fill.. for the time being i'd suggest going with compos in the front.. co-ax in the back and a decent 4 channel amp... later you can upgrade to a subwoofer and use the rear 2 channels of the amp to run the subwoofer and the rest 2 channels to run the front compos. and then you can use the Hu amplifier to power the rear coax speakers..or here is another option.. keep the 4 channel amp running the speakers front and back.. and later buy a cheap 2 channel sony amp and subwoofwer.. you can run the sony in bridged mode to power just the subwoofer... hope this helped.. boom Last edited by Tool : 7th July 2006 at 20:58.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 21:10	#9
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	1) HU(Pioneer) 5850: 7.3k (grey) Front comps: 6k 2 channel amp: 3.5k (sony 502) cable + install: 1.5k tot: 18.3 2) HU(Pioneer) 5850: 7.3k (grey) Front comps: 6k Rear Speaker: 4.5k 4 channel amp: 4.5k ; sony 504z cable + install: 2k tot: 24k 3) HU(Pioneer) 5850: 7.3k (grey) Front comps: 6k 4 channel amp: 4.5k ; sony 504z cable + install: 2k A sub: 7k-8k ( sub + box or box sux or tube) tot: 27k
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 21:57	#11
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	JK's second option is the best! And add a sub later. If you're very much in need of a SUB rather than rear speakers, then option 3 looks good! And add rear speakers later. For an overall round and filled soundstage, you need some rear fill. Even a normal 6" co-axial will do the job. BTW, why has JK mentioned HU with the setup? He owns a 6850 is'nt it?? Last edited by speedzak : 7th July 2006 at 22:00.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 22:30	#12
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	its for Techo not smreddy for smreddy a 504 driving frnt compos set with HPF at 80Hz and a sub driven by bridged 2 channel of teh 504 in LPF at 80Hz would do.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 22:46	#13
smreddy Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 24 Thanked: 0 Times	Currently HPF is having null, will change to 80hz and check it out. What exactly does this HPF mean? How much does the 504 amp costs? Will there be any major wiring required for adding the amp? I am planning to get this installed on the wooden plank holding the rear speakers. Is this good enough or have some other suggestions. Should the amp be connected to all the speakers ? reddy
	() Thanks

8th July 2006, 15:21	#14
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	HPF= High Pass Filter. Allows the highs and mids to get through, stops the lows (bass)
	() Thanks