ICE & Battery / Power issues

s0uljah · 20th July 2006, 23:47

What does it entail to throw in an additional battery (like in the JBL eyeballer)
as mentioned by Samji on the powercables thread. Obviously it means wiring amps,
power etc to the secondary battery ? Costs ? Implications ?

I was wondering on a possible solution for us ICE freaks to be able to run
our setups for extended periods of time while the engine is switched off?

Normally if an ICE setup with say 2 sets of comps, a sub and matching
amps if left on for more than a few mintues with the engine not running
would rapidly drain the battery right ?

I know it differs from car to car, battery type, alternator etc.. but Im
looking for a general opinion on how the battery gets affected by our ICE.

Thanks in advance

jkdas · 21st July 2006, 07:52

Get a better battery. The red optima one for a start ( replace teh OE one I mean).

ok, gurus...enlighten pls

s0uljah · 21st July 2006, 09:06

@ JK, definately thats the first step for the pack a punch ICE units...some of Gunbir / JB's install pictorials have highlighted this.

Optima Red/ Yellow is a little steep though (of course worth it in the long run)...

Incidentally, when I was replacing my battery last week the guy at the garage was saying santro wont take the red top without some alterations? Are they major changes ?

Im more curious as to the fitting of an alternate battery.. and how mnay people actually have that sort of thing going ?

navin · 21st July 2006, 09:48

What I'd recommend is to use a 2 battery setup. One for the ICE and one for the car so you are not stranded. You will also need a dual battery isolator so that one battery does not try to charge the other.

The 2 batteries need not be equal or even the same but should be able to chraged by a car alternator. SAB-NIFE makes some Ni-Cd batteries that can be used like this and can be kept in the trunk near the power amps.

However I do question the need for such high SPLs in a non-show car.

jkdas · 21st July 2006, 10:40

Navin, wont ist be costly? Having to batteries and wiring and sort?

@ souljah; think all you need to do is change 3 wires. Ther was a post abt this by somone( Kureti?)

kb100 · 21st July 2006, 11:37

Yes I agree... Most experts internationally are of the opinion that just doing the BIG THREE upgrade is more beneficial that all the other things put together!!.. That is upgrade the Batt to Alt, Alt to Chassis and Chassis to Batt wires... this is of course in a non show car (no multitude of amps and plethora of subs business... in which case you will need the works!!)

This has been discussed... Please look up Rudra's thread on his dimming issues... I think it was named "For whom the Bells Toll" or somethign like that.. the more IT savvy ppl can provide the link...

s0uljah · 21st July 2006, 13:29

Thanks Kb, Navin and JK

My bad for not searching properly... will do it when I get home and see what old threads I can dig up on the subject.

The 3 wires solution seems like the best and most inexpensive bet...

Navinji, Im not considering anything like this... was just curious, thats all.

navin · 21st July 2006, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

Navin, wont ist be costly? Having to batteries and wiring and sort?

Ofcourse but if in most cases the big 3 upgrade comes first.

Bass&Trouble · 21st July 2006, 15:39

The 3 wires upgrade is almost a must for any reasonably decent car audio install. And to have a performance battery and yet not upgrade the wires is a total loser-like scenario.

I don't know why people are mentioning the Optima Reds here, they're not even deep cycling types. They're just superior to regular cranking batteries, that's it. If you want to upgrade the battery, get a YT to derive the full benefit of deep cycling.

Basically, if you don't have a high-energy consuming music system, and you aren't the types that tests your ears' endurance over long periods of time by subjecting it to uninterrupted high spl, then the stock battery should suffice.

s0uljah · 22nd July 2006, 00:58

Bass&Trouble, kudos for your post it tackled a lot of issues I was wondering about when I started this thread

Tool · 22nd July 2006, 01:46

hello bro.. umm i have a optima red top in my car.. had a yellow top but thats in my dad's car now.. currently running the red top RT34.. now ull be asking why did you downgrade... ?? well its simple.. deep cycle is good for stand still playing... deep cycle means that the battey will be able to handle being almost toally discharged again and again better than a red top or what is a Starter battery..
but... if you look at the CCA.. ( cold cranking amperage) .. in simple terms.. CCA is the amount of power available at 1 time when you crank your engine to start..( this takes a huge amount of power)but on looking at the website ..you will notice that the CCA of the redtop is higher.. which is what is required when your system pulls a lot of power.. CCA.. thats the key... the yellow top only makes sense if you plan to park and play your music loud without running your car( not recommended for multi amp systems)... if that is your requirment then sure.. go for yellow top then.. but so far even with my kinda load.. after i upgraded the BIG 3 .. i dont have any problems.. nor can i make out a difference in the voltage.. basically what i am saying is i dont see a difference.. even if this might look like a DOWNgrade

hehehe but dont see a difference at all.... hope this helped...

P.s.. gurus please feel free to correct me if i said something stupid hehehehe

BOOM

low_bass_makker · 22nd July 2006, 02:13

Tool , can u tell us what voltage range does ur car remain when u play ur system. One more thing at what voulmes do listen....

Tool · 22nd July 2006, 02:26

hello.... umm bro lbm my voltage stays at a good 13.6 even with A/c and head lights...now after i upgraded the big 3.. but thats at my listning volume.... when i have pushed my system to the limit ( was standing out of my car) hehehe but i did hit 30 on the Hu volume Once was still clean but TOOO lound.. .. Max on my alpine is 35 (Thank you very much again Sirs JB AND GUNMAN for this install hehehe) .. i have seen it drop to 11.8 -12.. when the system was on the 30 on the hu volume...thats it.. dosent ever go below 11.8 odd and that too my system will only hit 11.8 when it hits heavy bass bits..with the volume on 30.. but i have only pushed it to the limit like this only 1 or 2 times maxx.. .. cant handle these volumes bro...

and well as to answer your question.. unn i susally run my system at 65 % load.. say 19-20 on the HU.. cant make it any louder.. this is supppaaaaa.. and not to mention the idq's are FAB

hehehe..also my ears are my money makers hehhe.. cant risk those volumes ....hope this helped

boooom

low_bass_makker · 22nd July 2006, 02:31

Thanks man for the info, It will help a lot....

s0uljah · 22nd July 2006, 12:24

Tool aka shatul ? Heheh... thanks mate your explanation was plain and simple to get through too

Especially since you have used the batteries in question and experienced the effects firsthand.
Spot on post !!!

Thanks again everyone.

20th July 2006, 23:47	#1
s0uljah Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 2,222 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	ICE & Battery / Power issues What does it entail to throw in an additional battery (like in the JBL eyeballer) as mentioned by Samji on the powercables thread. Obviously it means wiring amps, power etc to the secondary battery ? Costs ? Implications ? I was wondering on a possible solution for us ICE freaks to be able to run our setups for extended periods of time while the engine is switched off? Normally if an ICE setup with say 2 sets of comps, a sub and matching amps if left on for more than a few mintues with the engine not running would rapidly drain the battery right ? I know it differs from car to car, battery type, alternator etc.. but Im looking for a general opinion on how the battery gets affected by our ICE. Thanks in advance Last edited by s0uljah : 20th July 2006 at 23:49.
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 07:52	#2
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	Get a better battery. The red optima one for a start ( replace teh OE one I mean). ok, gurus...enlighten pls
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 09:06	#3
s0uljah Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 2,222 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	@ JK, definately thats the first step for the pack a punch ICE units...some of Gunbir / JB's install pictorials have highlighted this. Optima Red/ Yellow is a little steep though (of course worth it in the long run)... Incidentally, when I was replacing my battery last week the guy at the garage was saying santro wont take the red top without some alterations? Are they major changes ? Im more curious as to the fitting of an alternate battery.. and how mnay people actually have that sort of thing going ?
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 09:48	#4
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,196 Thanked: 9,292 Times	What I'd recommend is to use a 2 battery setup. One for the ICE and one for the car so you are not stranded. You will also need a dual battery isolator so that one battery does not try to charge the other. The 2 batteries need not be equal or even the same but should be able to chraged by a car alternator. SAB-NIFE makes some Ni-Cd batteries that can be used like this and can be kept in the trunk near the power amps. However I do question the need for such high SPLs in a non-show car.
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 10:40	#5
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	Navin, wont ist be costly? Having to batteries and wiring and sort? @ souljah; think all you need to do is change 3 wires. Ther was a post abt this by somone( Kureti?)
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 11:37	#6
kb100 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangy Boy! Posts: 1,555 Thanked: 21 Times	Yes I agree... Most experts internationally are of the opinion that just doing the BIG THREE upgrade is more beneficial that all the other things put together!!.. That is upgrade the Batt to Alt, Alt to Chassis and Chassis to Batt wires... this is of course in a non show car (no multitude of amps and plethora of subs business... in which case you will need the works!!) This has been discussed... Please look up Rudra's thread on his dimming issues... I think it was named "For whom the Bells Toll" or somethign like that.. the more IT savvy ppl can provide the link...
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 13:29	#7
s0uljah Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 2,222 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	Thanks Kb, Navin and JK My bad for not searching properly... will do it when I get home and see what old threads I can dig up on the subject. The 3 wires solution seems like the best and most inexpensive bet... Navinji, Im not considering anything like this... was just curious, thats all.
	() Thanks

21st July 2006, 15:39	#9
Bass&Trouble Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 2,754 Thanked: 124 Times	The 3 wires upgrade is almost a must for any reasonably decent car audio install. And to have a performance battery and yet not upgrade the wires is a total loser-like scenario. I don't know why people are mentioning the Optima Reds here, they're not even deep cycling types. They're just superior to regular cranking batteries, that's it. If you want to upgrade the battery, get a YT to derive the full benefit of deep cycling. Basically, if you don't have a high-energy consuming music system, and you aren't the types that tests your ears' endurance over long periods of time by subjecting it to uninterrupted high spl, then the stock battery should suffice.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2006, 00:58	#10
s0uljah Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 2,222 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	Bass&Trouble, kudos for your post it tackled a lot of issues I was wondering about when I started this thread
	() Thanks

22nd July 2006, 01:46	#11
Tool BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 351 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	hello bro.. umm i have a optima red top in my car.. had a yellow top but thats in my dad's car now.. currently running the red top RT34.. now ull be asking why did you downgrade... ?? well its simple.. deep cycle is good for stand still playing... deep cycle means that the battey will be able to handle being almost toally discharged again and again better than a red top or what is a Starter battery.. but... if you look at the CCA.. ( cold cranking amperage) .. in simple terms.. CCA is the amount of power available at 1 time when you crank your engine to start..( this takes a huge amount of power)but on looking at the website ..you will notice that the CCA of the redtop is higher.. which is what is required when your system pulls a lot of power.. CCA.. thats the key... the yellow top only makes sense if you plan to park and play your music loud without running your car( not recommended for multi amp systems)... if that is your requirment then sure.. go for yellow top then.. but so far even with my kinda load.. after i upgraded the BIG 3 .. i dont have any problems.. nor can i make out a difference in the voltage.. basically what i am saying is i dont see a difference.. even if this might look like a DOWNgrade hehehe but dont see a difference at all.... hope this helped... P.s.. gurus please feel free to correct me if i said something stupid hehehehe BOOM Last edited by Tool : 22nd July 2006 at 01:52.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2006, 02:13	#12
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	Tool , can u tell us what voltage range does ur car remain when u play ur system. One more thing at what voulmes do listen....
	() Thanks

22nd July 2006, 02:26	#13
Tool BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 351 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	hello.... umm bro lbm my voltage stays at a good 13.6 even with A/c and head lights...now after i upgraded the big 3.. but thats at my listning volume.... when i have pushed my system to the limit ( was standing out of my car) hehehe but i did hit 30 on the Hu volume Once was still clean but TOOO lound.. .. Max on my alpine is 35 (Thank you very much again Sirs JB AND GUNMAN for this install hehehe) .. i have seen it drop to 11.8 -12.. when the system was on the 30 on the hu volume...thats it.. dosent ever go below 11.8 odd and that too my system will only hit 11.8 when it hits heavy bass bits..with the volume on 30.. but i have only pushed it to the limit like this only 1 or 2 times maxx.. .. cant handle these volumes bro... and well as to answer your question.. unn i susally run my system at 65 % load.. say 19-20 on the HU.. cant make it any louder.. this is supppaaaaa.. and not to mention the idq's are FAB hehehe..also my ears are my money makers hehhe.. cant risk those volumes ....hope this helped boooom Last edited by Tool : 22nd July 2006 at 02:46.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2006, 02:31	#14
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	Thanks man for the info, It will help a lot....
	() Thanks

22nd July 2006, 12:24	#15
s0uljah Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 2,222 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	Tool aka shatul ? Heheh... thanks mate your explanation was plain and simple to get through too Especially since you have used the batteries in question and experienced the effects firsthand. Spot on post !!! Thanks again everyone. Last edited by s0uljah : 22nd July 2006 at 12:40.
	() Thanks