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Old 3rd June 2019, 14:53   #91
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by Kanasu View Post
From the installation wiring pic which I posted above, I am not sure if he has set it up for 4.1 channel (as shown in the manual), I can see he has connected wires to High Level socket & also to Front/med/rear socket, is this correct setup what he has done ?

The setting you need to use are:

Front: High Pass filter OFF

Rear: Filter OFF

Woofer: Low Pass Filter ON

Then use the Sony Music Center Application for the Time Alignment. This setting has only one limitation: The crossover frequency is fixed at 50Hz. I would have liked this to be flexible between 50-100Hz or so but it is what it is.

Last edited by navin : 3rd June 2019 at 15:23.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 18:18   #92
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
The setting you need to use are:

Front: High Pass filter OFF

Rear: Filter OFF

Woofer: Low Pass Filter ON

Then use the Sony Music Center Application for the Time Alignment. This setting has only one limitation: The crossover frequency is fixed at 50Hz. I would have liked this to be flexible between 50-100Hz or so but it is what it is.
perfect now I can surely feel the difference in Music quality, made all the changes as per above instructions including Time alignment and the 10 band equalizer to tune as per my taste (through Sony's Music center & Advance Car audio app), much much better music now

Thank you Navin

one noob question - now that I have set the filters OFF at Front and Rear, the knobs (high pass, low pass & level knobs) would not have any impact even if manually changed from the Amp ? only the Low pass filter for Woofer would work since it is ON, is my understanding correct ?

Last edited by Kanasu : 3rd June 2019 at 18:23.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 22:22   #93
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by Kanasu View Post
one noob question - now that I have set the filters OFF at Front and Rear, the knobs (high pass, low pass & level knobs) would not have any impact even if manually changed from the Amp ? only the Low pass filter for Woofer would work since it is ON, is my understanding correct ?
Do NOT change the filter settings on the amp now. I think the amp is designed to switch modes if the filter switches are changed.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 23:39   #94
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by anubhav22 View Post
Please check the following:
1. The speaker out from head unit is connected to High Level Input (and not line input connector)
2. You have used the white connector that connects wires directly to head unit (and not the one which has RCA connectors that can introduce noise)
3. Check/replace the wires running from head unit to amplifier, keep them away from power cable. Also ensure you are using the provided rubber shield for the power wires connected at amplifier.
Hello Guys,

Finally my issue has been resolved. Turns out the installer had messed up the connection from the HU to the Amp. Firstly, he had connected all the channels from the HU to the Amp instead of only FL & FR. Secondly, he also messed up the sequence of the wiring on the input connector on the Amp. Today got it all opened & rectified, and voila, the sound has improved by leaps & bounds.

Thanks a lot Anubhav for your suggestion. I had already started looking for a new HU. Thankfully that can wait till the next ICE bug bites.
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Old 4th June 2019, 17:07   #95
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

Thanks Navin for starting this thread. Very helpful for music lovers who had to be put up with OEM ICE.

I had done a similar setup for my 2017 Fortuner but before landing in this thread. (Just got blessed by the moderators).

My setup when started:
  • Pioneer DSP (one that I could afford with the budget)
  • Reliable Blaupunkt GTA Amp (had done duty in my last 3 cars)
  • Kicker 12-inch Sub with enclosure
Above was used to fire the factory speakers which was ok for my taste but I failed to bring the smile on my better half's face (Bose QuietComfort headset user).

Being challenged I had no other choice but to do a lot of research to choose wisely on the next penny that I wanted to spend on it.

My final choice was:
  • Morel Maximus component on the front fired by the amp
  • Morel Maximo coax in the rear fired by the DSP inbuilt amp (50W)
My wife was not only surprised but agreed that it's as good the Bose (thanks to dampeners on all doors). What more?? I downloaded a few audiophile tracks to test the quality and its an absolute delight to listen to this system.

She in fact insisted quite a few times to take her out for a drive now

Cheers!!!

Last edited by aah78 : 4th June 2019 at 17:40. Reason: LIST added. Spacing fixed.
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Old 6th June 2019, 19:24   #96
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

Thanks, Navin for creating this thread.

I have an Innova Crysta and since stock audio quality is pathetic, I was keen to buy Sony DSP with build in 4/5 Channel Amp.

I was not looking for very high-end install, so went to nearby installer Car Cupid in Pune. What he has suggested is, instead of adding DSP, replace front speakers with Components first and then add DSP/AMP if needed.

He suggested me Audison APK 165 2-way components (price dropped from 28k to 18k this month)along with damping. Its 4-ohm components and as per him, it would sound good even without an amp. What he said is older and cheaper components like lower JBL etc. cannot be driven directly from stereo but these new components are good enough directly. Offcource amplifier would make them even better.

What's your advice on this? Is it even possible?

I don't want to fiddle with electricals much to retain my warranty hence taking a simple and clean approach as much as possible. Might add under seat sub in the future if not satisfied. If DSP is needed then I will need to find a capable installer in Pune.
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Old 6th June 2019, 19:46   #97
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by abhijitvp View Post
What he has suggested is, instead of adding DSP, replace front speakers with Components first and then add DSP/AMP if needed.

He suggested me Audison APK 165 2-way components (price dropped from 28k to 18k this month) along with damping.
That IMO is a piece of good advice by the installer - to upgrade in stages rather than going all at a time.

Let the HU be stock, add components at the front, damp the doors as well and add a 4-channel amplifier if you have any money left from the budget set. Please do NOT forget to invest in some good quality wiring for the audio and not go for some cheap unbranded stuff that the installer may push.

After using the setup for a while and knowing what is lacking, add a subwoofer and coaxials at the rear. DSP can be the last step if need be!
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Old 7th June 2019, 11:35   #98
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijitvp View Post

What he has suggested is, instead of adding DSP, replace front speakers with Components first and then add DSP/AMP if needed.

He suggested me Audison APK 165 2-way components (price dropped from 28k to 18k this month)along with damping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Let the HU be stock, add components at the front, damp the doors as well and add a 4-channel amplifier if you have any money left from the budget set.
I agree with A4anurag. Upgrading in stages is easier on the pocket too. I have never heard the Audison components you mention but I have heard other Audison products (I have used both the Bit 10 and Bit 1) and the company makes decent products. Others you can compare them to are Focal, Morel, Infinity and DLS.
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Old 7th June 2019, 12:20   #99
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Please do NOT forget to invest in some good quality wiring for the audio and not go for some cheap unbranded stuff that the installer may push.

In the first stage, I will be just replacing front speakers with components. Are you suggesting me to replace these speaker wires from head unit? If yes then please let me know which brand should I look for?


Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
DSP can be the last step if need be!
The Only reason why I was inclined towards Sony DSP is that it has built-in 4/5 channel amplifier but it will be considered in a later stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I agree with A4anurag. Upgrading in stages is easier on the pocket too. I have never heard the Audison components you mention but I have heard other Audison products (I have used both the Bit 10 and Bit 1) and the company makes decent products. Others you can compare them to are Focal, Morel, Infinity, and DLS.
Thanks Navin. Will check the other brands as well.

Will be definitely doing this in stages

1. Add front comps and damping
2. Rear Coaxials and damping
3. Add Sony DSP / other 4 channel amp only if needed
4. Underseat sub only if needed. Will not be adding any normal subwoofer because of space issue.

Do you know any good installer in Pune who can do all of the above especially tune the DSP if needed in future?
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Old 7th June 2019, 13:18   #100
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijitvp View Post
In the first stage, I will be just replacing front speakers with components. Are you suggesting me to replace these speaker wires from head unit? If yes then please let me know which brand should I look for?
I'll suggest you apply damping sheets on all the 4 doors (₹11,000 for a bulk pack) in a single go and after that switch to the chosen components.

Replace the wiring when adding the amplifier. For only speaker swap, stock wiring will suffice.

Battery >> Amplifier (through an inline fuse near the battery (4Ga or 8Ga depending on power consumed) and then Amplifier >> Speakers (16Ga). If a DSP shall be added get good quality RCA's that will connect the HU and the DSP.

If in future you add an active underseat subwoofer, you'll need to add a distribution block on the wire coming from the battery and split one wire to the amplifier and another to the underseat subwoofer. Get a common ground distribution block and connect the negatives of both the amplifier and underseat subwoofer into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijitvp View Post
Will be definitely doing this in stages

1. Add front comps and damping
2. Rear Coaxials and damping
3. Add Sony DSP / other 4 channel amp only if needed
4. Underseat sub only if needed. Will not be adding any normal subwoofer because of space issue.
This sounds a nice plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijitvp View Post
Do you know any good installer in Pune who can do all of the above especially tune the DSP if needed in future?
Check the T-BHP Pune Directory for links to installers and/or connect to BHPians residing in Pune.
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Old 14th June 2019, 09:12   #101
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

Updating this thread with some details on the Sony XM-GS6 DSP amplifier. Navin had mentioned it was the cheapest one box solutions with an Amp and DSP under 30K. Flipkart has been selling this amp for 15K for the last few months and it's a terrific deal. It still is in some ways.

However the lower cost comes at a compromise which I found out last week. Fellow member Kanasu had picked up the DSP Amp and wasn't happy with the sound. Navin helped him out with the settings on the amp but they didn't help too much. We decided to meet up last week and see if we could find out what the issue was.

The main issue is limitations with the amp itself as well as head unit.

1. The DSP function only works in 2 channel mode. i.e. the front channels from the head unit go to the amp and the amp then converts that to 4.1 channels going to all 4 doors and subwoofer. This means you will not get fader control from the head unit. Fader is only from the Sony music app.

2. When you run the amp in 2ch DSP you lose all the physical filter controls on the amp. They need to be off and the built-in DSP decides the cut off frequencies for all speakers. You can't change the HPF or LPF on the amp only the graphical equalizer from the app.

3. In 2ch mode, there is an option to select 2v input range or 5v input range. I thought this would be for RCA out or high level speaker. Apparently Sony just recommends to be in 2V mode as default unless the volume is too loud and is clipping. Even with speaker level 2V input was selected and gain increased but the volume was never loud.

4. When you play music through the head unit in DSP mode, the volume is very low (about half when compared to 6 ch. mode or via BT). When you stream the same music from your phone directly to the amp via BT, the volume is louder. This bypasses the head unit completely. Looks like something at the amp input level side is attenuating the signal.

5. When you bypass the DSP and use the amp in 6ch mode, the volume is much louder than the 2 ch. mode and you can access both the LPF and the HPF. However you lose DSP and cannot do time alignment or multi band equalizer.

6. The HPF settings are a joke. The lowest HPF for front and rear speakers is 500Hz. So if you set a sub to 100Hz LPF then you will have a missing band between 100 and 500Hz. Only choice is actually to switch off the HPF for the door speakers and give them full range but then they might jar as they are playing what the sub should be playing.

Given the above limitations, the Sony amp is not a great solution for Amp+DSP in one box.

In the end the weak link is the stock OEM head unit in cars. My suggestion would be if you can, in your car, change the head unit to one with basic DSP (TA/EQ/filters) and use a regular 5/6 channel amp.

If you cannot change your head unit, look for a proper DSP which is expensive and does everything without these limitations.

Last edited by navin : 14th June 2019 at 11:03. Reason: typos and grammar
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Old 14th June 2019, 09:28   #102
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Photos - got it today but not installed as yet
I have this AliExpress sourced dsp set up with no amp or anything in my Scorpio - just middle quality Pioneer component front speakers to replace the oem front ones (installed by Charles of Metal Effect along with damping).

Does any Chennai audiophile want to take a look at this and suggest a bit more config if any / assess what further it can do?

It seems quite well featured for the rather cheap cost but I'm only a layman about this.

Dinner (etc) on me.
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:31   #103
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Given the above limitations, the Sony amp is not a great solution for Amp+DSP in one box..
This is what I understand.

The Sony has a Low Pass Filter (LPF), Band Pass filter (BPF) and High Pass filter (HPF).

Mode 1: LPF, BPF ON and HPF OFF: 2/3 way active components in the front plus subwoofer - Front channel (1-2) is used for tweeter or Mid+tweeter and Rear channel (3-4) is used for midbass both the front and rear channels use theBPF so the HPF setting on the BPF is common to both Front (1-2) and Rear (3-4) channels. Channels 5 and 6 use the LPF and are bridged for a subwoofer. This mode has Time Alignment and crossovers.

For example if you have a 2 way component the tweeter can get 3kHz+ or any frequency set by the LPF section of the BPF (varies from 500Hz to 4kHz), the midbass gets 100Hz - 3kHz set by the LPF section and HPF section (varies from 50-500Hz) of the BPF and the subwoofer gets that frequency that is set by the LPF filter.

If you have a 3 way component the mid+tweeter can get 500Hz+ (a passive crossover would be needed to sperate mid and high frequencies between the mid and tweeter) while the midbass covers 60-500Hz and the subwoofer everything below 60Hz.


Mode 2: ONLY LPF ON: 4 speakers (coax or passive components) - Front and Rear Channels (1-4) are used for 4 speakers and use a HPF which I assume is set by the LPF as the HPF and BPF are both set to off. The subwoofer uses the LPF and channels 5-6 bridged. This mode has Time Alignment but the LPF and HPF use a common crossover frequency so if the LPF is set to 50Hz the HPF for the front and rear speakers is also automatically 50Hz.

So if the Subwoofer's LPF filter is 100Hz, the front and rear speakers will get 100Hz+ and the subwoofer everything below 100Hz.


Mode 3: LPF, BPF and HPF ON 6 Channel Mode without any Time Alignment. Front channel (1-2) is used for tweeter, Rear Channel (3-4) is used for Midrange and Subwoofer channel (5-6) is used in stereo mode for woofer.

Last edited by navin : 14th June 2019 at 11:57.
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Old 17th June 2019, 13:55   #104
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

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Originally Posted by Kanasu View Post
@navin @anubhav22 would you be able to verify & check if the setup is correct

@Bineet_D please share the wiring side picture of your Sony DSP Amp
I read the issue is resolved. we did it in traditional way, we wired each speaker one by one, check output as it is and by reversing polarity of wires, then checking at what filter setting we get best output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bineet_D View Post
Hello Guys,

Finally my issue has been resolved. Turns out the installer had messed up the connection from the HU to the Amp. Firstly, he had connected all the channels from the HU to the Amp instead of only FL & FR. Secondly, he also messed up the sequence of the wiring on the input connector on the Amp. Today got it all opened & rectified, and voila, the sound has improved by leaps & bounds.

Thanks a lot Anubhav for your suggestion. I had already started looking for a new HU. Thankfully that can wait till the next ICE bug bites.
Glad it helped and you are enjoying the sound now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogWheel View Post
Thanks for the update. Which model of Linea are you referring to? Is this the one with the Daiichi OEM head unit with Touchscreen, GPS and UConnect Bluetooth streaming or the older one with Blue & Me connectivity. Does your HU have pre-outs?

In general, if OEM Head unit has pre-outs, are they also “equalised” outputs or are they unprocessed signals. Is it better to use them instead of the speaker level high line outputs for DSP/Amps?
2010/11 model of Linea using Delphi system. It does not have pre-outs. If you change HU, you loose B&M
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Old 26th June 2019, 14:19   #105
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Default Re: Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version)

I got the Sony DSP amplifier installed at bafna motors Pune in my Ford EcoSport 2018 with sync 3. I have coupled it to Hertz mille pro 165.3 components in the front with Infiniti 8 inch shallow subwoofer at the boot. I removed my active subwoofer (Kenwood) installed previously.
I used the high level input connection (DSP enabled 2ch mode) coupled to the above setup with the hpf off, lpf on and bridged subwoofer. Sound has improved in leaps and bounds .
Not sure about upgrading the rear coaxial with damping because the car is usually with two occupants in the front only.

My query is do I change the setup to all four speakers? Will the difference be a lot?
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