Sub-woofer controller?

katalyst · 24th February 2007, 10:04

Hi,

When an HUD is sold as "with three pre-amped outputs" and a"sub-woofer control" what does that mean?

Am not very sure what this jargon means.....

blueraven316 · 24th February 2007, 14:11

A pre amp out is nothing but an RCA output which is used to connect amps to head units. Typical 3 Pre out head units have Rear, Front and Subwoofer outs. The Subwoofer out/control is to adjust the level of output the Amp receives from the head for the sub. This is typically to adjust it to suit different listening preferences and it comes very handy switching between genres of music which need different levels of bass.
Hope this helps, some people will be able to elaborate more.

ASH-WINS · 24th February 2007, 15:38

Year! what he said is perfect...previously i had different HU but now i have 5850 with 3 preouts.

katalyst · 25th February 2007, 13:17

What's the big deal though?
I need an amp for a standard HU.. and I need an amp for an HU with a sub-woofer control... so how does it make a difference?

What kind of an amp will be needed to connect to such outputs if I want to power a sub and 4 four-way speakers?

THe HU itself should be able to support the 4 speakers right?

clipto333 · 25th February 2007, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by katalyst

What's the big deal though?
I need an amp for a standard HU.. and I need an amp for an HU with a sub-woofer control... so how does it make a difference?

What kind of an amp will be needed to connect to such outputs if I want to power a sub and 4 four-way speakers?

THe HU itself should be able to support the 4 speakers right?

hi, IMO, you dont need any different amplifiers for a HU with a sub out. but you need a different type of amp when you want to connect the speaker level output (i.e. the speaker cables of the HU). this kind of amp has a speaker level input. if a HU doesnt hae line output(rca out) then you need this kind an amp.With sub out, in mot cases you can swith off the sub from the HU and you can even control the output of the subs. in a simple term its like a volume control for the sub. hope this clarifiesthanks

revtech · 25th February 2007, 17:40

ok so what if you set the low pass filter on the amp at about 100 Hz and then for some reason while driving you want it at say 63 Hz or 80 Hz. if you change it from the head unit will it make a diff >> as in will it switch to the desired freq or continue to be at 100 hz regardless of the HU LPF ??

Rev

Sam Kapasi · 25th February 2007, 20:01

Wow, so much confusion.

Katalyst, let me try and clear it up for you.
In one way, you are correct. A pre-out, is a pre-out regardless of what it says.
You run a line-level wire (what we call an RCA cable) from this pre-out to an amplifier. This principle stands true for all genres of audio, car, home etc.

Yes, correct again, the HU can definitely support 4 speakers, but the quality and power of the amplifier inside the HU is limited. You cannot compare it to the power and quality of a dedicated amplifier.
The various kinds of pre-out only come into existence when using multiple amplifiers, OR multiple channels of amplification (sometimes in one body, like a 4 channel amplifier)

Now, what's the big deal with various kinds of pre-out, you say?

It's like this. Let us say you have an HU with ONE pre out. And let's say you want to run front and rear speakers off an amplifier. You will have no control over the fader.

OR for example, if you had a subwoofer and 2 speakers running off a 4 channel amplfier, BUT your HU had only one pre-out. How would you adjust the level of the subwoofer? Different recordings have different needs.3

Now consider this. You have a 4 channel amplifier for your 4 speakers and a 1/2 channel amplifier for your subwoofers.
You may need to fade betweeb speakers. You may need to increase or decrease the subwoofer level independently. For advanced users, you may need to change the low pass frequency, or invert the phase.

There are a lot of things you can control using your HU, for which otherwise you would have to crawl into the boot of your car.
Therefore if you intend to use amplifiers and subwoofers, it is always better to get a head unit with front and rear pre outs PLUS a subwoofer out.
I hope this helps you. If it doesn't please send me some naked dancing girls on a flight to escort me to hyderabad and I'll offer you a better explanation in person.

katalyst · 25th February 2007, 23:16

thanks guys...
i understood the basic concept.. (i think..... )

So......
I have the HU with the pre-amp outputs and a sub controller
I have two 4 way speakers

It sounds great

But i need
1) A sub
2) An amplifier
3) 2 more 4 way speakers

My understanding - the four 4 way speakers would be a bit dodgy on just the in built HU amp. So i might need TWO amps?

Step one would be to get an amp and sub combo - what kind of an amp would I need for this?

Thanks a ton of helping me with the basics guys

Sam Kapasi · 26th February 2007, 01:05

You have 4 way speakers in the rear I assume. You will need front speakers, no not 4 way lol.
If it's your lancer, you will need 5.25" speakers, preferably a component set.
So yes, like you said, you will prolly need 1 4 channel amp for your speakers and another 2 channel or monoblock (preferred) to drive your subwoofer.

speedzak · 26th February 2007, 05:29

@kat.... Could you please tell us what HU do you have?

katalyst · 26th February 2007, 12:05

This is the HU

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/products/L...k3=172&pr=2707

I went with this because:
1) I have been extremely satisfied with the performance of my current Kenwood HU (quite dated though)
2) I wanted a USB interface
3) I wanted to be able to use my current 10cd changer

The HU looks kinda average - but then its the performance that I want

speedzak · 26th February 2007, 12:57

I think it's a good HU with some nice features.
Congrats on your selection.

I would agree with Sam. Get a 4channel amp to power your speakers and get a monoblock or a 2 channel amp to power your subwoofer.
Please get some decent component speakers for the front and a 6.5" coax for the rear. Match the output of speakers or preferably, get both of same brand/series.
Get a decent sub and put it in a sealed enclosure. LPF can be set at 63hz or 80hz according to your pref.

For speakers and sub, I would prefer JBL, Hertz and alpine. For amp, I would suggest JBL, pioneer and Alpine. Ofcourse if money was not a problem, then Audison!
Spend some time experiencing different brands in the market and select what your ears (and in between) feels comfortable with.

Enjoy! And share your install pics here.

navin · 26th February 2007, 13:07

one last thing...4 way speakers are not nesscarily better than 2 way speakers. in most cases it might well be the other way around.

satish_appasani · 26th February 2007, 14:23

Katalyst..... Why don't we meet up once? I can explain you by giving a demo of Ice in my car. Though i don't have a second amp and sub woofer, i have 4 ch. amp, compos and ovals. I belive my Ice impressed you when you last sat in my car.

katalyst · 26th February 2007, 18:24

THanks guys..

Satish - how does the coming weekend sound?

I don't see my install happening till Mid - March. I will however postup as soon as it is done

24th February 2007, 10:04	#1
katalyst BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hyderabad as of now Posts: 38 Thanked: 0 Times	Sub-woofer controller? Hi, When an HUD is sold as "with three pre-amped outputs" and a"sub-woofer control" what does that mean? Am not very sure what this jargon means.....
	() Thanks

24th February 2007, 14:11	#2
blueraven316 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,110 Thanked: 19 Times View My Garage	A pre amp out is nothing but an RCA output which is used to connect amps to head units. Typical 3 Pre out head units have Rear, Front and Subwoofer outs. The Subwoofer out/control is to adjust the level of output the Amp receives from the head for the sub. This is typically to adjust it to suit different listening preferences and it comes very handy switching between genres of music which need different levels of bass. Hope this helps, some people will be able to elaborate more.
	() Thanks

24th February 2007, 15:38	#3
ASH-WINS BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: mumbai Posts: 46 Thanked: 0 Times	Year! what he said is perfect...previously i had different HU but now i have 5850 with 3 preouts.
	() Thanks

25th February 2007, 13:17	#4
katalyst BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hyderabad as of now Posts: 38 Thanked: 0 Times	What's the big deal though? I need an amp for a standard HU.. and I need an amp for an HU with a sub-woofer control... so how does it make a difference? What kind of an amp will be needed to connect to such outputs if I want to power a sub and 4 four-way speakers? THe HU itself should be able to support the 4 speakers right?
	() Thanks

25th February 2007, 17:40	#6
revtech Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,992 Thanked: 38 Times View My Garage	ok so what if you set the low pass filter on the amp at about 100 Hz and then for some reason while driving you want it at say 63 Hz or 80 Hz. if you change it from the head unit will it make a diff >> as in will it switch to the desired freq or continue to be at 100 hz regardless of the HU LPF ?? Rev
	() Thanks

25th February 2007, 20:01	#7
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	Wow, so much confusion. Katalyst, let me try and clear it up for you. In one way, you are correct. A pre-out, is a pre-out regardless of what it says. You run a line-level wire (what we call an RCA cable) from this pre-out to an amplifier. This principle stands true for all genres of audio, car, home etc. Yes, correct again, the HU can definitely support 4 speakers, but the quality and power of the amplifier inside the HU is limited. You cannot compare it to the power and quality of a dedicated amplifier. The various kinds of pre-out only come into existence when using multiple amplifiers, OR multiple channels of amplification (sometimes in one body, like a 4 channel amplifier) Now, what's the big deal with various kinds of pre-out, you say? It's like this. Let us say you have an HU with ONE pre out. And let's say you want to run front and rear speakers off an amplifier. You will have no control over the fader. OR for example, if you had a subwoofer and 2 speakers running off a 4 channel amplfier, BUT your HU had only one pre-out. How would you adjust the level of the subwoofer? Different recordings have different needs.3 Now consider this. You have a 4 channel amplifier for your 4 speakers and a 1/2 channel amplifier for your subwoofers. You may need to fade betweeb speakers. You may need to increase or decrease the subwoofer level independently. For advanced users, you may need to change the low pass frequency, or invert the phase. There are a lot of things you can control using your HU, for which otherwise you would have to crawl into the boot of your car. Therefore if you intend to use amplifiers and subwoofers, it is always better to get a head unit with front and rear pre outs PLUS a subwoofer out. I hope this helps you. If it doesn't please send me some naked dancing girls on a flight to escort me to hyderabad and I'll offer you a better explanation in person.
	() Thanks

25th February 2007, 23:16	#8
katalyst BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hyderabad as of now Posts: 38 Thanked: 0 Times	thanks guys... i understood the basic concept.. (i think..... ) So...... I have the HU with the pre-amp outputs and a sub controller I have two 4 way speakers It sounds great But i need 1) A sub 2) An amplifier 3) 2 more 4 way speakers My understanding - the four 4 way speakers would be a bit dodgy on just the in built HU amp. So i might need TWO amps? Step one would be to get an amp and sub combo - what kind of an amp would I need for this? Thanks a ton of helping me with the basics guys
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 01:05	#9
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	You have 4 way speakers in the rear I assume. You will need front speakers, no not 4 way lol. If it's your lancer, you will need 5.25" speakers, preferably a component set. So yes, like you said, you will prolly need 1 4 channel amp for your speakers and another 2 channel or monoblock (preferred) to drive your subwoofer. Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 26th February 2007 at 01:06.
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 05:29	#10
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	@kat.... Could you please tell us what HU do you have?
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 12:05	#11
katalyst BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hyderabad as of now Posts: 38 Thanked: 0 Times	This is the HU http://www.kenwoodusa.com/products/L...k3=172&pr=2707 I went with this because: 1) I have been extremely satisfied with the performance of my current Kenwood HU (quite dated though) 2) I wanted a USB interface 3) I wanted to be able to use my current 10cd changer The HU looks kinda average - but then its the performance that I want
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 12:57	#12
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	I think it's a good HU with some nice features. Congrats on your selection. I would agree with Sam. Get a 4channel amp to power your speakers and get a monoblock or a 2 channel amp to power your subwoofer. Please get some decent component speakers for the front and a 6.5" coax for the rear. Match the output of speakers or preferably, get both of same brand/series. Get a decent sub and put it in a sealed enclosure. LPF can be set at 63hz or 80hz according to your pref. For speakers and sub, I would prefer JBL, Hertz and alpine. For amp, I would suggest JBL, pioneer and Alpine. Ofcourse if money was not a problem, then Audison! Spend some time experiencing different brands in the market and select what your ears (and in between) feels comfortable with. Enjoy! And share your install pics here.
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 13:07	#13
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,198 Thanked: 9,300 Times	one last thing...4 way speakers are not nesscarily better than 2 way speakers. in most cases it might well be the other way around.
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 14:23	#14
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	Katalyst..... Why don't we meet up once? I can explain you by giving a demo of Ice in my car. Though i don't have a second amp and sub woofer, i have 4 ch. amp, compos and ovals. I belive my Ice impressed you when you last sat in my car.
	() Thanks

26th February 2007, 18:24	#15
katalyst BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hyderabad as of now Posts: 38 Thanked: 0 Times	THanks guys.. Satish - how does the coming weekend sound? I don't see my install happening till Mid - March. I will however postup as soon as it is done
	() Thanks