[pardeep31live]

Hi Everyone!

Creating this thread as i couldn’t find answers for my XL6 in any other thread. Please remove or merge if my thread is redundant.

I am an noobie audiophile who enjoys good music and good sound quality even better!

I just got the delivery of brand new MS XL6 Alpha+ MT and I am fairly disappointed with the audio quality of the stock speaker setup. I am hoping to gain from your experience for upgrading the stock components.

Listing down my requirements here and will be highly appreciative for all your inputs and suggestions:

1. Car: Maruti Suzuki XL6
2. Budget: INR 50,000 - INR 70,000
3. Requirement: Better sound clarity and soundstage. I like clear mids, well spread soundstage and deep bass that doesn’t overpower mids and highs.
4. Planned upgrades: Thinking to keep the same stock HU and upgrade the components and adding an amplifier to drive it. Open to the idea of adding an under-seat sub as well. Also, adding damping sheets to all 4 doors and boot door.
5. Special Considerations: Don’t feel the comfortable with drilling the plastic panels for tweeters. Front ones can be fixed in stock space for tweeters, but there’s no such option in rear door panels.
6. Options: Now, this is where I don’t have any idea except the name of a few brands. I am an audiophile, but with zero knowledge in car audio systems. My thought is that it’s a good idea to go with the top-end of a lower brand than the low-end offering of a higher brand. I am not comfortable going with the shopkeepers suggestions either because of some lessons learnt in the past.

Request the expert members to suggest the combinations that i can go for. Shall be highly appreciative of all inputs.

Thanks in advance!

[navin]

Originally Posted by pardeep31live

1. Car: Maruti Suzuki XL6
2. Budget: INR 50,000 - INR 70,000
3. Requirement: Better sound clarity and soundstage
4. Planned upgrades: Thinking to keep the same stock HU and upgrade the components and adding an amplifier to drive it.
5. Special Considerations: Don’t feel the comfortable with drilling the plastic panels for tweeters. Front ones can be fixed in stock space for tweeters, but there’s no such option in rear door panels.

Disclaimer: I have not sat in or heard the XL6's system.

That said, before you start, you should be aware that most manufacturers introduce significant equalization in their stock (OEM) HUs. The reason to do this is to get "acceptable" or "tolerable" sound from their OEM (read as cheap) speakers. So if the OEM speakers have poor response below 60Hz, an OEM HU might introduce a bass boost between 70Hz and 40Hz followed by a steep roll-off (to protect the woofer) below 40Hz.

This means that if you add amplifiers and speakers, all the equalization of the stock (OEM) HU would get amplified and might not sound acceptable once 3rd party amplifiers and speakers are used. It all depends on the nature and extent of the equalization used in the OEM HU.

The solution is to use DSP. DSPs can (a) reverse the equalization in the OEM HU and (b) introduce fresh equalization for the new speakers and amplifiers to compensate for any challenges the 3rd party amplifiers and speakers may have.

JL Audio, Audio Control, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, Audison, Helix, Focal, etc., make these DSPs. Sony and Pioneer even make DSPs embedded in a few of their amplifiers. Some time back, TBHP posted this thread referring to the Sony and Pioneer DSPs.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/car-e...t-version.html (Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version))

FYI: Most 3rd party HUs (Alpine, Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer etc.) have similar DSPs in them as well.

I would suggest you first consider the cost of the DSP and if you really want to go down this route before getting into amplifiers and speakers choices.

You do not need to install component speakers in the rear. In fact, in most cars, I do not recommend this. Rear speakers are primarily "fill-in" speakers meant to augment the front speakers.

[pardeep31live]

Originally Posted by navin

The solution is to use DSP. DSPs can (a) reverse the equalization in the OEM HU and (b) introduce fresh equalization for the new speakers and amplifiers to compensate for any challenges the 3rd party amplifiers and speakers may have.

JL Audio, Audio Control, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, Audison, Helix, Focal, etc., make these DSPs. Sony and Pioneer even make DSPs embedded in a few of their amplifiers. Some time back, TBHP posted this thread referring to the Sony and Pioneer DSPs.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/car-e...t-version.html (Upgrading your OEM Car Audio using DSPs (budget version))

Hi Navin! This makes total sense! Thanks for sharing this! I'll definitely add DSP to the list.

Regarding the rear components, I'm planning to go for coaxials only. I feel the need to upgrade the stock speakers because of the really bad stock output.
Even though evolutionary upgrades make more sense; I, personally, prefer to do it all once and forget it. In fact, I was thinking about changing speakers only at first - but was not sure about the stock HU being able to drive better speakers. Do you have any suggestions about that approach?

Thanks again!

[nik0502]

Originally Posted by pardeep31live

I am an noobie audiophile who enjoys good music and good sound quality even better!

Hi Pradeep,

I upgraded the audio system in my Civic sometime last year. I will list down the set up. Though the set up I have is not a really high end set up but it does the job well. I had upgraded the stock HU in Civic with a Chinese Android HU and it deteriorated the sound quality. The sound output was quite good with the original HU. Hence I decided to upgrade. I installed Infinity Reference component speakers at the front. The output was better but not what I was expecting. So the next thing I did was install an under seat subwoofer. I didn’t want to loose the boot space plus I also feel the subwoofer in the boot doesn’t make any sense in sedans since the boot is isolated from the cabin. There are quite a few Chinese ones available in the market with price as low as 7-8K. I must say the output is also acceptable but those lack clarity is what I felt. So I got a pioneer WX400DA under seat subwoofer. It has an inbuilt class D amplifier. Now the bass was good inside the cabin however it was overshadowing the vocals so I installed a Pioneer four channel amplifier and routed all speakers through the amplifier. Now the sound system is quite filling. It is not like those loud ones where the entire car shakes outside however it fills the interiors quite well and people outside wouldn’t even notice that there’s a subwoofer working inside the car. Here’s how overall cost worked out last year.
Speakers Infinity Reference 6520 - 7500
Pioneer WX400 DA subwoofer - 16500
Pioneer 4 channel amplifier (I don’t remember the model) - 8 K
Installation- ~ 4K
I had also installed android HU which costed 10K

So overall~50 K

With your budget you can opt for even a better set up. The stock system on most of the Maruti’s are mediocre at the best.

[somspaple]

Originally Posted by navin

..

The solution is to use DSP. DSPs can (a) reverse the equalization in the OEM HU and (b) introduce fresh equalization for the new speakers and amplifiers to compensate for any challenges the 3rd party amplifiers and speakers may have.

...

Originally Posted by pardeep31live

..

1. Car: Maruti Suzuki XL6
2. Budget: INR 50,000 - INR 70,000
3. Requirement: Better sound clarity and soundstage. I like clear mids, well spread soundstage and deep bass that doesn’t overpower mids and highs.
4. Planned upgrades: Thinking to keep the same stock HU and upgrade the components and adding an amplifier to drive it. Open to the idea of adding an under-seat sub as well. Also, adding damping sheets to all 4 doors and boot door.
5. Special Considerations: Don’t feel the comfortable with drilling the plastic panels for tweeters. Front ones can be fixed in stock space for tweeters, but there’s no such option in rear door panels.
6. Options: Now, this is where I don’t have any idea except the name of a few brands. I am an audiophile, but with zero knowledge in car audio systems. My thought is that it’s a good idea to go with the top-end of a lower brand than the low-end offering of a higher brand. I am not comfortable going with the shopkeepers suggestions either because of some lessons learnt in the past.

Request the expert members to suggest the combinations that i can go for. Shall be highly appreciative of all inputs.

Thanks in advance!

As Navin mentioned you would need a DSP. Good news is there are couple of decent budget DSPs with amp built in! There is one from Pioneer which costs around 15K INR and comes with 'Automatic' tuning [I guess like Pioneer PRS 90 HU] but doesn't provide much customization options like channel specific parametric eq etc. Then there is a new offering from Nakamichi which is a 8 channel DSP with 4 channel amp costs around 20K INR! These prices are simply great compared to yesteryears when DSPs were really expensive options.

But with DSP, along with installation you need a proper tuning. So it is imperative that you find a person who can do the tuning for you.

[pardeep31live]

Originally Posted by nik0502

Here’s how overall cost worked out last year.
Speakers Infinity Reference 6520 - 7500
Pioneer WX400 DA subwoofer - 16500
Pioneer 4 channel amplifier (I don’t remember the model) - 8 K
Installation- ~ 4K
I had also installed android HU which costed 10K

So overall~50 K

Hi Nik! Thanks for sharing your setup and suggestions! Even I prefer something that's not loud, but rather should be clear and easy to hear.
I got a quote from a local shop that's got a good range of products and they mentioned that I can get good quality sound setup within 80,000 without the need for a DSP. I'll be comparing the quotes in the coming days.

Originally Posted by somspaple

Then there is a new offering from Nakamichi which is a 8 channel DSP with 4 channel amp costs around 20K INR! These prices are simply great compared to yesteryears when DSPs were really expensive options.

Thanks so much for suggesting Nakamichi! I wasn't aware about this brand. I went to a local shop and he suggested Nakamichi under-seat sub. I would have told him no right away, had I not read your suggestion right before visiting him.

Overall, based on the two quotes I've gotten, the price is reaching close to 1 Lakh. Most of it feels to be inflated - also because local shops are not sharing the exact model numbers of the components and amplifiers despite pushing them. And I'm not putting my money in unless I know the exact combination and run through it's market reviews.

[frankmehta]

Originally Posted by pardeep31live

Planned upgrades: Thinking to keep the same stock HU and upgrade the components and adding an amplifier to drive it. Open to the idea of adding an under-seat sub as well. Also, adding damping sheets to all 4 doors and boot door.

Wisest and least troublesome choice, but you will not have much control over the Processing, as @navin clearly mentioned.
Keep in mind, that adding a DSP may be within budget, but tuning it is a little difficult. 99% of installers have no clue how to use one, forget about tuning one. Drop the idea of a DSP if you aren't sure who will be configuring the DSP.

5. Special Considerations: Don’t feel the comfortable with drilling the plastic panels for tweeters. Front ones can be fixed in stock space for tweeters, but there’s no such option in rear door panels.

You can go with a good quality coaxial set in the rear seat. No need for components in the rear seat if you are going to be driving most of the time.

I am not comfortable going with the shopkeepers suggestions either because of some lessons learnt in the past.

You car and your ears will thank you. It's a Fools' Paradise nowadays.


So here's what I recommend!

1. Illusion Audio (it's back! And installed in my car! Loving them!) 6.5 inch Components upfront 22-25k tops and Coaxials at the rear coaxials for 6k tops
2. Damping in all 5 doors (yes, I said 5!) 10k tops (DONT SPEND MORE THAN THAT)
3. Sony/Infinity/JBL/Pioneer 4 channel amplifier for the fronts and subwoofer 9-12k (coaxials can run on the head unit amp)
4. Illusion Audio 12" subwoofer 18-22k in a SEALED enclosure
6. Wiring and installation 10k TOPS!

works out to 65-75k depending on what deals you get from your vendor.


BEST OF LUCK! Don't hesitate from quoting or PM'ing. DON"T SETTLE FOR INSTALLER RECOMMENDED RUBBISH! Also, please don't select your installer based on how good the installs look. Try getting a hearsay from people in the industry or on this forum to see who is good in your city.

[somspaple]

Originally Posted by pardeep31live

..
Thanks so much for suggesting Nakamichi! I wasn't aware about this brand. I went to a local shop and he suggested Nakamichi under-seat sub. I would have told him no right away, had I not read your suggestion right before visiting him.

Overall, based on the two quotes I've gotten, the price is reaching close to 1 Lakh. Most of it feels to be inflated - also because local shops are not sharing the exact model numbers of the components and amplifiers despite pushing them. And I'm not putting my money in unless I know the exact combination and run through it's market reviews.

Caveat on Nakamichi : as a brand it is an old well respected brand when it comes to cassette decks. But in it's new avatar I guess it is just rebranded Chinese stuff. So exercise caution when it comes to drivers - I would suggest stick to Focal / Rainbow etc. For the budget constraints: you can always plan the installation in phases. Do enough research online- and unlike home audio, it's not easy to audition the ICE systems with similar configurations.

[GoBlue]

Audio is subjective.

Instead of going down the "what setup for xyz INR budget" rabbit hole, I would suggest hearing to a few setups (diverse, different brands) and assessing what kind of sound profile you like.

Make a detailed song test list which covers variations of the music you like to hear. Play the entire list on different setups. Shortlist 2-3 contenders.

Then see how much those components (parts) cost. And decide based on eventual budget. This way whatever you buy, you will like what you hear. There will be a few variables like HU, car acoustics, wiring quality etc which you may not able to factor in, but atleast the sound profile would be similar.

If you do budget vs sound, that approach has a tendency to become a bottomless money pit, where every week/month the dissatisfaction of not hearing what you like could provoke you to try out different permutations.

Listen, assess and then select/buy/install stuff.

PS: I would always recommend to change the HU to a competent one. Stock HUs are garbage. Processing at the source is the most important aspect to upgrade. Otherwise there may not be much benefit to merely changing speaker parts.

[Tutenkhamen]

Thanks for this post OP.
I am also considering an audio upgrade for my i20 Sportz model, 2012

Key takeaways so far:
1. Invest in good components for front, amd coaxials for rear
2. Don’t get subwoofer to start with. Definitely don’t ruin the bootspace with those big subwoofer pipes.
3. HU is important. Need to check if it’ll be equipped enough to power all channels (4? In case of 2 components, 2 coaxials)

Haven’t done an exhaustive research but the following set of components look nice

https://gomechanic.in/accessories/al...ALP_SPK_RS65C2

https://gomechanic.in/accessories/jb...nt=JBL_SPK_180

https://gomechanic.in/accessories/ro...=RF_SPK_P165SE

And also, I am wanting to get HU upgraded to latest gen HUs with (preferably) wireless Apple carplay and the following seems to be a good fit. The HU plate in i20 can handle double DIN 7” screen

https://pioneer-india.in/buy/car-ent...s/dmh-a5450bt/

Anyone can help validate these choices? What else should I be looking for? Not going for a DSP or a subwoofer to start with.

[pavi]

No matter what ever hack you do to improve the sound output of your stock HU, be it DSP or whatever, if you have the monetary capacity to go for a reputed brand head units like Pioneer (better, don't look here for bling stuffs), Sony etc. go for it eyes closed. People may say the head unit is not flush fitting, no android stuffs etc., but once you start hearing the output, satisfaction is 100% guaranteed. In my books, source is the highest priority, then comes good speakers and sub woofer.

If you don't have the budget now, complete the installation in steps. Better to get good stuffs over a period of time, rather than getting average stuffs in one go. One more thing, if you go for upgrading the head unit, NEVER go for the usual android ones in the market. It's all just bling outside and no soul inside. Who am I to say that?!! I am someone who upgraded from a stock head unit to an android head unit, and then threw that away when experienced the pioneer magic during auditioning a full 'Rainbow' components set up.

My resume : My current set up includes, pioneer 5290 BT head unit, 4 Rainbow components in four doors, Hertz 4 channel amplifier driving the components, Infinity mono amplifier driving a 12 inch enclosed Rainbow sub woofer.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by Tutenkhamen

Thanks for this post OP.
I am also considering an audio upgrade for my i20 Sportz model, 2012

Key takeaways so far:
1. Invest in good components for front, amd coaxials for rear
2. Don’t get subwoofer to start with. Definitely don’t ruin the bootspace with those big subwoofer pipes.
3. HU is important. Need to check if it’ll be equipped enough to power all channels (4? In case of 2 components, 2 coaxials)

Haven’t done an exhaustive research but the following set of components look nice

https://gomechanic.in/accessories/al...ALP_SPK_RS65C2

https://gomechanic.in/accessories/jb...nt=JBL_SPK_180

https://gomechanic.in/accessories/ro...=RF_SPK_P165SE

And also, I am wanting to get HU upgraded to latest gen HUs with (preferably) wireless Apple carplay and the following seems to be a good fit. The HU plate in i20 can handle double DIN 7” screen

https://pioneer-india.in/buy/car-ent...s/dmh-a5450bt/

Anyone can help validate these choices? What else should I be looking for? Not going for a DSP or a subwoofer to start with.

Have tried the Alpine R65 components/coaxials. They are very good speakers for that price.

[RijuC]

I am totally newbie for the ICE set-up. I am also thinking of upgrading the old type music system of my 2016 Swift

1. What I am not able to understand is: If I use the suggested Pioneer DMH-A5450BT or the Sony XAV-AX8100 and Component speakers on all 4 doors; is it essential to add one amplifier in between? Can't these head units provide the necessary power and signals to the 4 component speakers? Also, kindly suggest alternative good head units in similar budget of 25-30k INR.

2. Whether 2 components in the front and 2 coaxials for the rear doors will be a better choice? Whether the amplifier still remains essential? Nobody else drives my car. I am the single occupant for most of the time.

3. My other requirements are a map navigation and a rear parking assist camera interfacing. I have another query- whether the guidelines in parking assist camera are part of these head units or the camera unit? Whether such guidelines are dynamic type or static type? Any recommendation for such suitable camera?

4. Any recommendation for sourcing and installation in Gurgaon? My friends and colleagues are not satisfied from their suppliers.

[ais]

I'm in the process of upgrading my music system in my Polo. First changed the speakers to Focal 165. Then changed the headunit as stock headunits cannot produce full spectrum sound. Got Kenwood DMX8020S. Its a superb unit and Sony, Pioneer cannot match Kenwood for SQ. So changing the Headunit should be the first step. DSP cannot bring back what the stock HU doesn't output. Got Alpine underseat Sub to complete the sound.

Then I heard a full fledged DSP system. So now going for ATI speakers, Helix M Six DSP, JL Slimline Sub with a 4 Channel Hammertech Amp which will also drive the rear coaxials. Budget up from 30k to 100k to 300k now!

For the XL, consider a basic Kenwood HU, Morel Optimo or Optimo Ultra speakers, and a Nakamichi DSP. Even without a DSP and an addition of an Alpine Sub, it should sound fine.

[pardeep31live]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

So here's what I recommend!

1. Illusion Audio (it's back! And installed in my car! Loving them!) 6.5 inch Components upfront 22-25k tops and Coaxials at the rear coaxials for 6k tops
2. Damping in all 5 doors (yes, I said 5!) 10k tops (DONT SPEND MORE THAN THAT)
3. Sony/Infinity/JBL/Pioneer 4 channel amplifier for the fronts and subwoofer 9-12k (coaxials can run on the head unit amp)
4. Illusion Audio 12" subwoofer 18-22k in a SEALED enclosure
6. Wiring and installation 10k TOPS!

Hi Frank! Thank you so much for the detailed recommendations! I'm thinking about getting Pioneer DSP (DEQ S1000A) as it allows tuning from the mobile app.
I wasn't able to get Illusion Audio here in Ludhiana. Do you know where can I get it online? Also, thinking about getting an under-seat amp only as I need the boot space quite often.

Originally Posted by somspaple

Caveat on Nakamichi : as a brand it is an old well respected brand when it comes to cassette decks. But in it's new avatar I guess it is just rebranded Chinese stuff. So exercise caution when it comes to drivers - I would suggest stick to Focal / Rainbow etc. For the budget constraints: you can always plan the installation in phases. Do enough research online- and unlike home audio, it's not easy to audition the ICE systems with similar configurations.

That makes sense! I'm planning to go with either JBL GTO series or Rainbow for drivers.
It actually is difficult auditioning the ICE systems. I'm an audiophile when it comes to home audio and office audio - but have absolutely zero understanding when it comes to car audio. And not being able to simulate in-car experience on vendor shops doesn't help either.

Originally Posted by GoBlue

If you do budget vs sound, that approach has a tendency to become a bottomless money pit, where every week/month the dissatisfaction of not hearing what you like could provoke you to try out different permutations.

Listen, assess and then select/buy/install stuff.

PS: I would always recommend to change the HU to a competent one. Stock HUs are garbage. Processing at the source is the most important aspect to upgrade. Otherwise there may not be much benefit to merely changing speaker parts.

Completely agree on it becoming a rabbit hole. I'm already at the receiving end from my family because everyone else thinks the audio quality is fine in XL6, while I feel it to be unbearable.
I can't really change the stock HU as multiple features like TPMS, 360-degree cameras are integrated with the stock HU, and I don't find the local vendors reliable being able to carry them over to the new stock HU - if at all it is doable.

Originally Posted by Tutenkhamen

Key takeaways so far:
1. Invest in good components for front, amd coaxials for rear
2. Don’t get subwoofer to start with. Definitely don’t ruin the bootspace with those big subwoofer pipes.
3. HU is important. Need to check if it’ll be equipped enough to power all channels (4? In case of 2 components, 2 coaxials)

All three points make complete sense! The JBL GTO and Alpines are decent from what I have learnt so far.

Originally Posted by pavi

No matter what ever hack you do to improve the sound output of your stock HU, be it DSP or whatever, if you have the monetary capacity to go for a reputed brand head units like Pioneer (better, don't look here for bling stuffs), Sony etc. go for it eyes closed. People may say the head unit is not flush fitting, no android stuffs etc., but once you start hearing the output, satisfaction is 100% guaranteed. In my books, source is the highest priority, then comes good speakers and sub woofer.
.

Hi Pavi, is it possible to carry over the stock HU features like TPMS, 360-Degree camera and other car security features to new HU? If yes, how complicated it is? Most of the XL6 features and connected car features are accessible through stock HU only, and I'm worried about local vendors messing it up while upgrading.

Originally Posted by ais

. Even without a DSP and an addition of an Alpine Sub, it should sound fine.

I'm thinking about Pioneer DEQ-S1000A for the DSP as it allows tuning from mobile app. I can take care of it from the mobile with trial and error.