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-   -   Battery chargers (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/car-entertainment/28659-battery-chargers.html)

akg7091 10th September 2007 22:30

Battery chargers
 
First of all, apologies if I am posting it in the wrong section.

I am interested in buying a three stage charger for my car battery so that I can top it off every week or so. I have noticed that after a few weeks of use the battery loses charge ( it is the third battery I have changed in 2 years ) It is an Amaron ( 70 AH )
The problem obviously is that the ICE takes too much power and the alternator is not able to charge the battery because there is too much drain.

I have enquired at almost all dealers I could find who sell batteries :Frustrati about chargers and they are all using normal step down transformers without any sort of regulation. While such chargers may be fine if used once a year, they will surely damage the battery if used on a weekly basis.
I even called up sukam's corporate office in Gurgaon and they said they have no battery chargers in stock ( though they are shown in the catalog )
I have almost given up and have decided to use a 12 volt inverter to charge the battery. Is it safe to do so ?
Can someone direct me to some dealer in Delhi/NCR who sells good quality battery chargers ? please:

Thanks everyone

ravimittal 10th September 2007 23:09

Hey AKG, Well I m into batteries business and I wonder if u can get ny such charger. probably u could try a higher AH capacity battery if it fits your car

rocksterraghu 10th September 2007 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by akg7091 (Post 559552)

I have noticed that after a few weeks of use the battery loses charge ( it is the third battery I have changed in 2 years ) It is an Amaron ( 70 AH )
The problem obviously is that the ICE takes too much power and the alternator is not able to charge the battery because there is too much drain.

What ICE do you have in your car? Do you use the ICE in your car on plain battery without the engine on for long durations?

The problem may be with the alternator or in the wiring as well. Can you give us a description of your setup?

Jaggu 10th September 2007 23:25

Replies inline.....

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by akg7091 (Post 559552)
First of all, apologies if I am posting it in the wrong section.

I am interested in buying a three stage charger for my car battery so that I can top it off every week or so. I have noticed that after a few weeks of use the battery loses charge ( it is the third battery I have changed in 2 years ) It is an Amaron ( 70 AH )
The problem obviously is that the ICE takes too much power and the alternator is not able to charge the battery because there is too much drain.

whydont you check with audio guru's if a dedicated battery for ICE can be set up?

I have enquired at almost all dealers I could find who sell batteries :Frustrati about chargers and they are all using normal step down transformers without any sort of regulation. While such chargers may be fine if used once a year, they will surely damage the battery if used on a weekly basis.

true most are very basic set up, yes they regulate voltage but dont have any auto cut off, so one has to be careful not to over charge

I even called up sukam's corporate office in Gurgaon and they said they have no battery chargers in stock ( though they are shown in the catalog )
I have almost given up and have decided to use a 12 volt inverter to charge the battery. Is it safe to do so ?

even inverter chargers are not that high funda, and most often they over charge if left for long, again careful coz the charge rating will be very high. safest bet is to get a very low amp charger sat 1 to 2 amps and leave for around 4 hours to charge a week. OR search net for some imported stuff and get it.

Can someone direct me to some dealer in Delhi/NCR who sells good quality battery chargers ? please:

Thanks everyone


akg7091 10th September 2007 23:28

I have a sony 800w max ( 75x4 rms ) amplifier for the front and rear speakers.
I have a blaupunkt 650 w rms mono for the sub ( doing 400 w rms )
When I use the system at reasonable volume for more than a few weeks ( ie not driving with it switched off to allow alternator to recharge the battery ) the battery starts getting discharged ( approx 12.5 volt open terminal voltage ) . If i drive the car for a few weeks without the music, then the battery gets recharged ( approx 12.65 volt open terminal voltage )

This clearly shows that the ICE is the reason behind this problem and that the alternator is working fine. Basically, I am using up more amperes than the alternator has in reserve, leading to the battery getting discharged

akg7091 10th September 2007 23:32

Thanks jaggu for the reply.
I have already built a 230 AC to 13.8 DC transformer capable of 2 amperes. I will be using it for 2 hours a day and will keep all posted on how it goes.
I am not very good with electronic circuits, so I don't think it will be easy for me to build a complete 3 stage charger.
At the time of posting, the battery voltage is 12.62 volts
I will use the charger when the battery voltage falls to 12.5 volt and will post the results here

blueraven316 11th September 2007 01:24

A description of what system you have along with how it's wired is important now.
How often do you have this problem that the car ends up with lesser voltage needed to at least Start the car in the morning.
OR Does the system just about turn off for few seconds while running due to the drop in voltage and the car will almost not start if you shut the car off at that time ?
If you can explain the symptoms and setup currently running it will be much easier to diagnose.

akg7091 11th September 2007 02:36

Thanks for everything guys. I will explain the system in detail now :

I have a brand new ( 3 weeks old ) Amaron pro battery. The alternator is fine ( got it checked at a tata dealer )

I have a 300w amp and a 400w ( all ratings in rms ) amplifiers.
Both are connected to the battery via a boss audio 1.2 F capacitor. Wiring is finolex, capable of 80 amp
The problem is quite simple. If I use my system daily, the battery slowly discharges. However, if I don't use it for a week or two, the battery gets charged and shows a steady open terminal voltage of around 12.74
However, on constant use the battery discharges slowly. I check it once a week, and when it falls to 12.5 volts I stop using the system for a week or two to allow it to recharge. The problem is very simple really.
Let me explain this with an illustration :
Assume that the alternator is rated at say 100 amp
Let us say the stock car systems ( ECU, AC, lights etc etc ) take 75 amp.
That leaves 25 amps that the alternator can spare. Now if I put a load that takes 30 amps then slowly but surely the battery will get dischargerd as the alt supplies it with 25 amps to charge but it is giving 30 amps for various other uses. This is my problem. The permanent solution is to get a bigger alt but a better solution is to buy a battery charger and charge the battery once every two weeks.
I hope everyone is clear about the problem now.

navin 11th September 2007 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by akg7091 (Post 559756)
I have a 300w amp and a 400w ( all ratings in rms ) amplifiers.
Both are connected to the battery via a boss audio 1.2 F capacitor. Wiring is finolex, capable of 80 amp

I check it once a week, and when it falls to 12.5 volts I stop using the system for a week or two to allow it to recharge.

Assume that the alternator is rated at say 100 amp

The permanent solution is to get a bigger alt but a better solution is to buy a battery charger and charge the battery once every two weeks.
I hope everyone is clear about the problem now.

you mean to say you intend to take the battery out of teh car and charge it every few days?

I dont see why your battery should discharge so quickly. i suspect your alternator is not doing it's job. please have it checked from an independant source (not tata dealer).

panky12345 11th September 2007 10:47

No need for battery chargers/like. I've seen better (read more power consuming) installs with stock batteries, without any issues. What do you ride?

1. Get alternator functioning and related wires checked. TASS are NOT so good. Atleast not even one that I've come across in past few years, they are GOOD for NOTHING.

2. Remove that BOSS capacitor and try with an alternate set of heavy wiring.

3. If both the things above are OK, I would attribute this problem to improper installation. Your installer may have given a direct link of ICE to battery and have not used a cut off, causing it to drain. Get the entire connections rechecked.

Jaggu 11th September 2007 11:46

battery when fully charged should show 13.6 volt and while alternator charges should peak at around 14.2 to 14.5 volt. So you can charge at a higher voltage.

rocksterraghu 11th September 2007 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by akg7091 (Post 559756)
I have a brand new ( 3 weeks old ) Amaron pro battery. The alternator is fine ( got it checked at a tata dealer )

I have a 300w amp and a 400w ( all ratings in rms ) amplifiers.
Both are connected to the battery via a boss audio 1.2 F capacitor. Wiring is finolex, capable of 80 amp
The problem is quite simple. If I use my system daily, the battery slowly discharges. However, if I don't use it for a week or two, the battery gets charged and shows a steady open terminal voltage of around 12.74
However, on constant use the battery discharges slowly. I check it once a week, and when it falls to 12.5 volts I stop using the system for a week or two to allow it to recharge. The problem is very simple really.

It looks like:

1. Your alternator is not charging your battery properly - however, since you use your headlamps etc and there is no problem with those, the chances are little unless you have more electricals putting a load on the batt/alt. If you do have aftermarket horns, fog lamps installed, check for the relays - the cumulative effect may be draining out the battery.

Go to a good electrician and get the alternator/wiring checked thoroughly.

2. There is something seriously wrong with the wiring of your ICE which may be draining out the battery. Get a complete check of the same.

Quote:

The permanent solution is to get a bigger alt but a better solution is to buy a battery charger and charge the battery once every two weeks.
I hope everyone is clear about the problem now.
There are quite a few people here running a system heavier than this on the battery. I really don't think a charger/bigger alternator is required.

akg7091 11th September 2007 16:03

Guys, I have got the alternator checked in front of me. It is working fine.
Also, the battery doesn't discharge completely. My earlier batteries took approx 6 months to discharge to such a state that they couldn't start up the car
I have a 2 yr old Indica DLG.
Wiring is absolutely fine ( trust me ) . Installed it myself. Everything gets switched off after I turn the stereo off.
@ jaggu Who told you that a fully charged lead acid ( 6 cell ) battery has an open terminal voltage of 13.6 ?
check here Amara Raja - Tips
It is 12.66 according to amaron. ALso, just google it. You can see almost all manufacturers, sites, encyclopedias mentioning it as 12.65~12.7

@ navin ji : Yes I can take it out once every two weeks and charge it. No issues. Also, Navin ji, it gets discharged to such levels in 5~6 months, but now as a precautionary measure I don't let that happen

panky12345 11th September 2007 18:44

Come on akg, the very idea of recharging is ridicolous! As pointed out by me earlier, heavier systems than yours run on stock batteries.

I use Pio 4 channel + JBL mono + Pio Sub + JBL bass Tube + JBL comps + JBL 6X9 on my stock battery, even sometimes without running the engine, without any battery issues.

There ought to be some problem with your wiring/electrical connections.

LBM bhai, where are you? is nadaan balak ko gyaan do!!

akg7091 11th September 2007 20:02

It seems I am not able to get my point across in an easy to understand manner. There are no problems as such. It is just that I was interested in buying a charger and asked the experts here if they knew of someplace where I could buy it. I don't disagree with you that cars with heavier systems are running on stock batteries. Also, panky12345, kindly read my posts again so that you can understand what I really mean. The battery doesn't get discharged overnight. It happens over say 6+ months. I just wanted one so that I can always keep my battery in best shape. I am a person who wants to keep everything performing at it's max.

As this thread is going nowhere, I request the mods to close this thread.

Thanks again everyone for trying to help me out :)


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