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Old 23rd January 2025, 20:44   #1
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Scratching the Audio Itch - 2024 Toyota Fortuner Audio Upgrade

The Toyota ICE Struggle.
Scratching the Audio Itch - 2024 Toyota Fortuner Audio Upgrade-img_2392.jpeg
I've always loved good audio, and my dad was the one calling me a maniac for continuously fiddling with the gear. But I forgot where I got it from.

Few years ago, I grilled Navin on his Camry thread when I didn't really know much about audio:
Quote:
Originally Posted by viXit View Post
Can you elaborate on this a little more. I thought the surround of the subwoofer is supposed to make sure it moves linearly in the magnetic field.
I don't understand how adding another one helps.

I remembered the thread while drafting this and decided to take a look at it. Reading it again, it seems not much has changed with the way Toyota deals with ICE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
. Not even simple sun blinds for the rear passengers or a memory for the electrically adjustable seats!!!!!
.
.
...and then there is the ICE. It deserves to be shot. The people responsible for implementing this should be shot. No shooting them would be too easy. They should be stuffed in the Camry and force fed Kenny G over the ICE. I have heard elevator speakers that sound better.
.
.
.
Fat Cats like myself might be satisfised but a car enthusiast would hardly be.

And I guess I'm following suit. Except for the ICE and Lack of memory seats not much else bothers me about this car. Not after I started getting my thrills elsewhere.
Taking the Fortuner's delivery was quite uneventful, thanks to the thorough PDI I did along with 2 more BHPians (my brother and pratyushforza). I spent an hour plus driving the car in and out of the yard and checking all functions. Checked all door seals, fluid levels, inspected the paint and all panels. All was in order except a paint issue which has since been sorted.

Something I noticed during one of two visits to Toyota before purchase was that the audio was quite bad. We knew it was one of the first things to change. Like many hobbies and interests, Car audio is unforgivingly expensive if you don't know where to stop. Add to it the bad installers, and lack of auditioning before you can buy components, and it's a steaming hot mess to land in.
I realized I could break my head trying to figure out what to get, or go with a tried and tested speaker and not think too much. I was convinced I wouldn't regret my speaker decision as long as I didn't hear the better one in person. Stupid but it works. I knew JL Audio was quite good and set my mind on it. Decided to go for the DSP and Speakers from JL. I was not keen on spending too much money (LOL) and decided to reuse the amp and sub from safari which was now in City. I was quite happy with the installation at Twisters after trying many places, so I contacted him ahead of time and went there on a weekend. The price quickly climbed as we added misc. parts and damping to the equation.


Iteration 1



I wanted a clean signal(Flat EQ0 going into the amp, so I chose to go with a JL Audio Fix DSP. It takes the Hi-Level input from the Head Unit and makes the EQ flat by listening to a reference signal supplied with the DSP and Time alignment 0-0 by playing a series of pops and clicks. (Auto EQ and Alignment)

The component list as of now was:
1. JL Audio Fix 86 DSP
2. JL Audio C2 Components
3. JL Audio C2 Coaxials
4. JBL Stage A9004 4ch amp
5. Morel MPD 500.1 Monoblock
6. Pioneer TSW 8" Subwoofer
7. Morel Damping sheets
8. Morel speaker foam surrounds and backing sheets

All inclusive, it just about crossed 1.15L

Installation was straightforward. Doors were opened and damping sheets were rolled on, Stock speaker rivets were drilled out and MDF spacers were installed to accommodate the JL C2 drivers. Foam surrounds were applied to direct the sound pressure into the cabin and not stray into the doors.

Dr. Sidd left some old speaker wire with me which came in handy, saved around 5k since I had good wiring with me. I wired the front to accommodate a full active setup in case I ever wanted to. Since I was opening it up anyway. But passive XOs for now.

I was particular that I didn't want any wires to be cut, so we used a harness used for android head units, to patch into the factory speaker level wiring and send the hi-level audio into the DSP. from where RCAs go to the amps.

The monoblock for the sub I got.
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Dressed the seats back up to keep em clean
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The stock speakers,
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Absolutely no sound treatment in the doors
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Stock vapor barrier went in the trash, used these sheets instead
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The foam that went behind the speakers
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The foam strips that go around the speaker to seal it to the door card
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They go like this
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The new speakers
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I knew they could handle a lot more power, but I was not ready for what I had in store. Will elaborate in later posts.

The tweeters were in the sail panels from factory, into which the new JL tweeters sat snug rather easily.
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Old tweeter:
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Wired everything up, quite straightfoward and it was more or less done in a few hours. Buttoned everything up, and there was a hissing sound in the tweeters. We spent a few hours troubleshooting. Figured the gain was too high and the head unit was also creating hissing. I briefly contemplated a new head unit, but I like the features on the stock unit and didn't really think it was worth the extra lakh.
Scratching the Audio Itch - 2024 Toyota Fortuner Audio Upgrade-img_1688.jpeg
Went home at 11PM with the promise that the grounding would be reworked and was not too happy with the sound. Got a call from home and I pretended not to have spent all night blowing money by sounding excited. Somehow they always know the sound was just all too muddy, a little to fatiguing and shouty. Nothing seemed right.

Came home, got my RTA software and mic out and started tuning the meagre 10 channel eq on the four speakers. Set the crossovers right and played it by ear till I looked at the clock and realized it was 2AM. I was a little happier. The Crossovers between the sub and midbass weren't set properly, that itself cleaned up the sound a huge deal.
Scratching the Audio Itch - 2024 Toyota Fortuner Audio Upgrade-img_1389.jpeg

The Bass was Clean, the Highs were lively, and the system had newfound ease and might with the amplifier. What would take 15-20 volume increments took just 3 now and everything seemed effortless. I was somewhat satisfied.
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by viXit : 25th January 2025 at 13:05.
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Old 24th January 2025, 01:16   #2
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Visited the second time armed with all the forum knowledge and possible reasons for the hissing. We could use the JL DRC controller to hold the gain down but I was in no mood to spend 7K on a controller just for that.

Waited a bit, found a buyer for my stock HU and speakers, was going to fund the new HU through it, but I wanted to retain the stock screen. I started looking into ways to bypass the factory HU, and decided to go for a DSP with digital inputs that could feed directly through my iPhone. I picked up the Helix DSP Mini Mk2, with a Helix conductor and made my front stage active so I can get good staging. The HU powered the rear speakers now.

Vinay, the owner of Twisterz was out of town, so I supervised the installation, and didn't get the Conductor installed as it needs fabrication/Drilling into stock trim. I got the DSP installed, used the existing wires for the full active setup and completed it there. My subwoofer blew a few weeks before this and I had nothing below 30Hz. Vinay kindly let me borrow his Audiotec Fischer mic and interface to help with the Auto EQ on the Helix DSP. Came home, reset all XOs, Set the time alignment and ran the Auto EQ. The front stage felt a lot improved. The image was in the center of the dash, but some frequencies felt all over the place. Test tracks that demonstrate the staging were perfect, but songs with more than just a few instruments were messy. The hissing noise was quite low, controls in the new DSP were overwhelmingly too many, and I didn't have a sub. so I hit a snag.

Was too bored a few days later and decided to go ahead and mount the Helix conductor. It allows me to use the dial for master volume, Optical volume(iPhone), and sub volume. It also lets me change the tune when I change inputs as the optical feed is a flat EQ and the Head Unit has a different one. I used a holesaw on a 12v Drill and a dremmel to clean it up and mount it. The Fortuner's center console build and design is lovely. There's so much room for accessories and extra switches, ports, chargers and what not.

Some pics:
The DD sub belongs to a friend of mine who was with me during installation. It had a ton of potential but I was unable to tune it and listen properly before I had to return it. The latest purchase to seek better audio was the SMSL PO100 Pro to feed the DSP an Optical signal. But I am unable to hear a stark difference. I have a Behringer mic I'm playing around in REW with, learning how to read Waterfall plots and response curves, hopefully once I tune the car speaker by speaker and integrate the new subwoofer, I'll be happy. The door speakers might suffice though, they go damn low and create some serious SPL in the car till 40Hz right now, the doors are impressing me, but I would prefer a sub to handle 50Hz and below. Will update soon when I get a sub. Planning to build a box at home with dad's help. Fabrication is fun.
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Last edited by viXit : 25th January 2025 at 13:27.
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Old 25th January 2025, 18:15   #3
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re: Scratching the Audio Itch - 2024 Toyota Fortuner Audio Upgrade

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 26th January 2025, 12:21   #4
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re: Scratching the Audio Itch - 2024 Toyota Fortuner Audio Upgrade

Refreshing to see an audio upgrade that does not cost more than my car!
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Old 26th January 2025, 13:54   #5
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by viXit View Post
The Toyota ICE Struggle
After listening to the Burmester system in my nephew's E-class, I have concluded that almost all car manufacturers treat audio as an afterthought, even those who charge for "high-end" systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viXit View Post
I was too bored a few days later and decided to go ahead and mount the Helix conductor.

I used a hole saw on a 12v Drill and a Dremmel to clean and mount it. The Fortuner's center console build and design are lovely.
I am always hesitant to make such modifications to my cars. This means I often have to donate the car's audio system when I sell the car.
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Old 26th January 2025, 14:01   #6
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
After listening to the Burmester system in my nephew's E-class, I have concluded that almost all car manufacturers treat audio as an afterthought, even those who charge for "high-end" systems.

I am always hesitant to make such modifications to my cars. This means I often have to donate the car's audio system when I sell the car.
Let me add some points to that.

1. Burmester although marketed as a premium system is supplied with an Amplifier that simply does not have the processing power to take care of the system. I have seen so much cars transforming by simply adding a Helix V Eight or a Match DSP plug and play amp. Speakers are not to be blamed here.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/upgrad...rth-investment

2. Yes only modify if the panel is readily available to purchase on call. Even I agree to that opinion.
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Old 26th January 2025, 18:56   #7
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbk__Audiophile View Post
I have seen many cars transform by adding a Helix V Eight or a Match DSP plug-and-play amp.
I agree. I am old school (I remember building my first amplifiers and speakers in 1976), and as we old folk are wont to do, I shunned all digital platforms. We even looked down upon companies like Meridien and Yamaha when they built and demonstrated their active DSP-based loudspeakers. The only exception we made for DSPs was in subwoofers.

Several years ago (maybe 12-15), another BHPian introduced me to Mini-DSP, which one could purchase with a microphone (see links).
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box
https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement

Using these DSPs, I have built time-accurate crossovers in a fraction of the time it took to design and build a passive crossover. Since then, I have converted to using DSP in my last two designs (I design/build loudspeakers very rarely because I need a place to use them).

Moral: you can still teach an old dog some new tricks.
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Old 27th January 2025, 09:04   #8
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I agree. I am old school (I remember building my first amplifiers and speakers in 1976), and as we old folk are wont to do, I shunned all digital platforms. We even looked down upon companies like Meridien and Yamaha when they built and demonstrated their active DSP-based loudspeakers. The only exception we made for DSPs was in subwoofers.

Several years ago (maybe 12-15), another BHPian introduced me to Mini-DSP, which one could purchase with a microphone (see links).
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box
https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement

Using these DSPs, I have built time-accurate crossovers in a fraction of the time it took to design and build a passive crossover. Since then, I have converted to using DSP in my last two designs (I design/build loudspeakers very rarely because I need a place to use them).

Moral: you can still teach an old dog some new tricks.
Dear Navin,

My installer uses this Mini Mic for his RTA. I even shared the reading in today's thread.

I'm not a professional, although I am good at this. I've shared my Daily build in Team Bhp.

Please refer to the PSSound YouTube page. He's lately been using some Mundorf AMT directly replacing tweeters. He's a fan of the IB build, at least trunk IB, and that's something I'm thinking about for the future.

For much of the rest, I'd say Flipflop has got us covered. I don't believe in more speakers = More audio—it's just a marketing thing. Even Flipflop's 75L build used 10 channels.

Saying the new Rangerover 30+ speakers audio sounds crappy in comparison to a decent 6-7 speaker active aftermarket car audio. It's controversial, but I can verify in person and post my experience here.

Last edited by navin : 27th January 2025 at 14:19. Reason: typos
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Old 27th January 2025, 12:03   #9
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

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Originally Posted by omranga98 View Post
Refreshing to see an audio upgrade that does not cost more than my car!
Haha, Going broke in the first 2 months of my career isn't fun so I think I'm going to take a break after adding a subwoofer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
After listening to the Burmester system in my nephew's E-class, I have concluded that almost all car manufacturers treat audio as an afterthought, even those who charge for "high-end" systems.
On the contrary, merc is one of the only manufacturers that mounts the Mid Bass in the firewall/bulkhead of the car, which is quite often the most rigid and strong mounting surface a vehicle interior can offer. As far as I understand, this means tremendous power handling with minimal loss to vibration and rattles, and controlled, punchy bass.
But I do agree with your point, they are severely underpowered, after all , what part of their customer base do you think is as discerning as you (and me :P ...jk)
Quote:
I am always hesitant to make such modifications to my cars. This means I often have to donate the car's audio system when I sell the car.
I share the feeling. My previous setup, and all the wiring in this car as well is 100% reversible, although the convenience of the Conductor falling right below the natural resting area of my palm was too good to let go. The plan is to remove the conductor and insert an additional 12v socket/usb charger when I sell. It's a toyota, so I'll cross that bridge when I get to it........a decade or two later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbk__Audiophile View Post
Let me add some points to that.

1. Burmester although marketed as a premium system is supplied with an Amplifier that simply does not have the processing power to take care of the system. I have seen so much cars transforming by simply adding a Helix V Eight or a Match DSP plug and play amp. Speakers are not to be blamed here.
+1, but to the end customer, there's no speaker, no amp, no dsp, just "merc with bad audio"

Quote:
2. Yes only modify if the panel is readily available to purchase on call. Even I agree to that opinion.
To my luck, there are quite a few wrecked fortuners available thanks to it's popularity to buy a used panel off of. Had checked before I went ahead with this weigh loss initiative on my center console ;D

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post

Using these DSPs, I have built time-accurate crossovers in a fraction of the time it took to design and build a passive crossover. Since then, I have converted to using DSP in my last two designs (I design/build loudspeakers very rarely because I need a place to use them).
Do share some pics. Maybe a thread sometime.... Many like me would be quite keen to read.


Quote:
Please do refer PSSound Youtube page. Hes lately been using some Mundorf AMT directly replacing tweeters. Hes a fan of IB build, atleast trunk IB and that's something in my mind for future.
Man I hate Peter so much. Making me poorer by the second...... and I thought I had no addictions


@navin @sbk and others, any suggestions to what parameters I should weigh while choosing a sub would be highly appreciated!

Last edited by viXit : 27th January 2025 at 12:08.
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Old 27th January 2025, 15:23   #10
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbk__Audiophile View Post
2. Yes only modify if the panel is readily available to purchase on call. Even I agree to that opinion.
When I modified my wife's Honda City, I removed the original panel. Then, I substituted an alternate panel and used that. When I sold the car, all I had to do was replace the original panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viXit View Post
As far as I understand, this means tremendous power handling with minimal loss to vibration and rattles, and controlled, punchy bass.

Do share some pics. Maybe a thread sometime.... Many like me would be quite keen to read.

@navin @sbk and others, any suggestions to what parameters I should weigh while choosing a sub would be highly appreciated!
I assume you mean the kick panel. Yes, the kick panel is much sturdier than the door, but I treat a system as a whole. If they used great speakers and installed them well but powered them with substandard amplification or DSPs, then the system suffers.

I haven't taken any pictures of the work in progress, but I can take photos of the finished speakers if you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbk__Audiophile View Post
Please refer to the PSSound YouTube page. Lately, he's been using some Mundorf AMT to replace tweeters directly.
Mundorf has probably one of the best AMTs out there. Many years ago (maybe 20), I built a simple two-way using a Vifa 18cm woofer and a Mundorf AMT. It was supposed to be a test bed to test other AMTs, but I never got around to doing that. I did test the ESS AMT, which has some challenges due to the driver's physical size. However, I haven't used any other AMTs.
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Old 27th January 2025, 18:14   #11
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
When I modified my wife's Honda City, I removed the original panel. Then, I substituted an alternate panel and used that. When I sold the car, all I had to do was replace the original panel.



I assume you mean the kick panel. Yes, the kick panel is much sturdier than the door, but I treat a system as a whole. If they used great speakers and installed them well but powered them with substandard amplification or DSPs, then the system suffers.

I haven't taken any pictures of the work in progress, but I can take photos of the finished speakers if you like.



Mundorf has probably one of the best AMTs out there. Many years ago (maybe 20), I built a simple two-way using a Vifa 18cm woofer and a Mundorf AMT. It was supposed to be a test bed to test other AMTs, but I never got around to doing that. I did test the ESS AMT, which has some challenges due to the driver's physical size. However, I haven't used any other AMTs.
My God! Sir you should have continued the journey. But you already were at the top so what can I say.

Come back and take a Build why not!?


No he actually means the firewall. The floor panel we press our feet against. They are superior to kicks. Benefits of OEM location!

Last edited by Sbk__Audiophile : 27th January 2025 at 18:15.
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Old 28th January 2025, 11:34   #12
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

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Originally Posted by Sbk__Audiophile View Post
My God! Sir you should have continued the journey. But you already were at the top so what can I say.

No he actually means the firewall. The floor panel we press our feet against. They are superior to kicks. Benefits of OEM location!
I am not near the top, nor was I ever. It's just that I am old and have spent more decades behind than in front.

Wouldn't the firewall location be subject to accidental damage?
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Old 28th January 2025, 11:38   #13
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

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I am not near the top, nor was I ever. It's just that I am old and have spent more decades behind than in front.

Wouldn't the firewall location be subject to accidental damage?
Dear Navin Ji,

It is an OEM location so the location is Engineered to be there. Since Mercedes I dont doubt it.
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Old 29th January 2025, 07:58   #14
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Re: Scratching the Audio Itch- Fortuner 2024 Audio Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbk__Audiophile View Post

No he actually means the firewall. The floor panel we press our feet against. They are superior to kicks. Benefits of OEM location!
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I am not near the top, nor was I ever. It's just that I am old and have spent more decades behind than in front.

Wouldn't the firewall location be subject to accidental damage?
I don't really think so.
Another advantage is that the speakers can breathe into the engine bay, I haven't heard an Infinite baffle speaker application yet but I hear good things.

Here's a Link to a related article:

Also, yes! would love to see the finished build pics!
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by viXit : 29th January 2025 at 08:00.
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