[shuvc]

Time to replace the much maligned Soomoku sub in my Baleno!

Current setup has Pio 4950, EL62 coaxes in front door and rear tray. Speakers driven by a 75.4. Planning to add a GZTW10MK2 or GZTW12MK2 sub (Ajay here I come !) and new speaker wires.

Now the reason this is in the DIY section. It used to bug me that if I'm able to wire a home theater, why do I need to go to someone to wire the ICE? Note that I'm not using the term install since I believe that involves more than just connecting some components. All I wanted was to be able to connect the ICE myself.

The biggest bottleneck seemed to be removing and putting back the various panels in the car. Over the last couple of months, I have managed to learn this. Now I am fairly confident of taking out the HU, removing and putting back door panels, door sill panels, rear sear etc. Of course there are still grey areas, hence this thread.

Since I am a noobie in this DIY thing, my intention is to detail out apparently simple steps so that I'm prepared when I start putting things together. Please bear with me.

Specific queries are in italics.

Steps for connecting.

Dismantle existing setup
- Disconnect the rear and front speaker wires and general cleanup
- Do I need to disconnect the AMP power to do this? Or should I just keep it switched off?

Rear Speakers
- Connect rear speakers first ie before the front and the sub
- Connect speaker level out from HU to rear speakers. The rear speaker wires will be run along the right door sills to the HU.
- The speaker level out wires connected to the 'harness??' plug on the HU are very thin and have multiple colours.

Questions.
- How to identify the rear left and right from among the 8 speaker out wires? I was thinking of connecting the new wire to the rear speakers and then at the HU end, play some music, and find out by trial and error, by connecting the speaker wires to the speaker out wires one by one. Is this ok?
- As I said there are multiple colours for the 4 pairs (8 in total) speaker out wires. How do I identify the -ve and +ve? Is there a colour code?
- I plan to get 16gauge speaker wire. The short length (10cm approx) speaker out from the HU are probably 24 gauge. Is there any problem in connecting these two types of wire?

Front Speakers
- Front RCA from HU to Front Input in AMP. AMP is fixed to the rear seat and this RCA is already in place. It runs along the left door sill.
- Connect front speaker out from AMP to front speakers. These wires will run with the rear speaker wires along the right door sill.
- For the right door speaker, run the wire to behind the panel below the steering and pass it into the right door through the pipe near the door hinges.
- For the front left speaker, run the wire from the AMP along the right door sill, to behind the steering wheel, then behind the HU across to the left side. Pass it through the pipe into the left door.

Questions
- Is it difficult to pass the speaker wire through the pipe? Any techniques that might help?

Sub
- Connect Sub RCA from HU to Rear Input of AMP. This RCA is already in place and is being used for the rear speakers. It runs along the left door sill. I believe I'll just need to take the RCAs out from the rear speaker sockets and plug them into the sub outs of the HU?
- Bridge the rear out from the AMP and connect it to the subwoofer.

Questions
- Bridging would mean connecting the +ve of the sub speaker wire to the +ve of the rear left speaker out on the AMP and the -ve of the sub speaker wire to the -ve of the rear right speaker out on the AMP?
- Is a sub-protector grill necessary? Are they expensive?
- Will there be a significant difference between a 10" (300W) and a 12" (400W) sub, both driven by a 284W bridged AMP? I'm not looking to wake up the neighbours. Just clean and decent punch.

Connectors
- What connectors are required for connecting the wires to the speaker terminals?
- I'll try to get banana plugs for connecting the speaker wire to the sub.

Length
- I would need 5 metres on an average for each of the speakers? Say 20mts, 60ft approx?
- Sub wire should be long enough to move the sub around in the boot. So I guess 1.5 metres should suffice?

Misc
- FYI, The AMP power cord runs approx along the centre of the car under the carpet. The AMP remote wire runs along the left door sill,with the RCAs.

What do I need to buy and from where ?
- Sub and box with banana connectors (banking on Ajay)
- Say 20-25 mts 16 gauge speaker wire (any place where I can buy relatively cheap, online?)
- Wire connectors; where do I get them? if not will have to make do with twist-and-tape :(

[Bass&Trouble]

This DIY thing is becoming quite a fad, lol!

Originally Posted by shuvc

Dismantle existing setup
- Disconnect the rear and front speaker wires and general cleanup
- Do I need to disconnect the AMP power to do this? Or should I just keep it switched off?

Powering off the system will be sufficient. Remove the engine compartment fuse on the power line to the amp to be double safe.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- The speaker level out wires connected to the 'harness??' plug on the HU are very thin and have multiple colours.

This wire thickness is sufficient since it is a small length.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- How to identify the rear left and right from among the 8 speaker out wires? I was thinking of connecting the new wire to the rear speakers and then at the HU end, play some music, and find out by trial and error, by connecting the speaker wires to the speaker out wires one by one. Is this ok?
- As I said there are multiple colours for the 4 pairs (8 in total) speaker out wires. How do I identify the -ve and +ve? Is there a colour code?

The head unit's installation manual should have the exact information. IIRC, there will be a pair each of white wire, grey wire, blue and green which are front left, front right, rear left and rear right respectively. The negative lines are marked with a thin black line running along the entire length of the wire.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- I plan to get 16gauge speaker wire. The short length (10cm approx) speaker out from the HU are probably 24 gauge. Is there any problem in connecting these two types of wire?

No problem.

Originally Posted by shuvc

I believe I'll just need to take the RCAs out from the rear speaker sockets and plug them into the sub outs of the HU?

Yup.

Originally Posted by shuvc

Questions
- Bridging would mean connecting the +ve of the sub speaker wire to the +ve of the rear left speaker out on the AMP and the -ve of the sub speaker wire to the -ve of the rear right speaker out on the AMP?

The two terminals to be used for the bridged output connection will be indicated on the amp. Use those two. Dont bother about polarity just yet. Just use these two terminals and connect the sub. After some listening, reverse the sub, i.e. connect what was on positive to the negative and vice versa. Listen again. Keep the connection that produced better integration of the sub with the speakers.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- Is a sub-protector grill necessary? Are they expensive?

It prevents from someone from ramming a suitcase into the cone. A regularr mesh grill should cost Rs. 100-150 max.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- Will there be a significant difference between a 10" (300W) and a 12" (400W) sub, both driven by a 284W bridged AMP? I'm not looking to wake up the neighbours. Just clean and decent punch.

A 12" gives the best of both worlds especially in the entry level. Goes low and loud enough. If you can afford the space, 12" is the way to go.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- What connectors are required for connecting the wires to the speaker terminals?

Female push-on crimp terminals, one slightly larger, the other smaller.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- I would need 5 metres on an average for each of the speakers? Say 20mts, 60ft approx?

Your left front speaker is taking an extremely long route. That will alone be about 7m if your amp is towards the right in the trunk of your car. 5m for the front right. And another 7 m for both the rears should do it. (Where will the wire to the rear left be running from? )

Originally Posted by shuvc

- Sub wire should be long enough to move the sub around in the boot. So I guess 1.5 metres should suffice?

Yes.

Originally Posted by shuvc

Misc
- FYI, The AMP power cord runs approx along the centre of the car under the carpet. The AMP remote wire runs along the left door sill,with the RCAs.

The RCA could come with the speaker cable and the remote and power can be along the left side together.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

This DIY thing is becoming quite a fad, lol!

Well till you appoint a decent dealer/installer at Kolkata, DIY seems to be the way to go if one wants Illusions and GZ

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Remove the engine compartment fuse on the power line to the amp to be double safe.

Hehe, that reminds me. The instal guys discouraged (with a lot of conviction I must say) putting the fuse in. Apparently they had done it for many cars, and the owners had to frequently come back with blown fuses. I am guessing that inadequate fuses were put in.

Are fuses sold separately? Cost? How do I fit one?

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

A regularr mesh grill should cost Rs. 100-150 max.

Aha. Then I want it !

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Female push-on crimp terminals, one slightly larger, the other smaller.

Any links with a snap of this contraption?

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Your left front speaker is taking an extremely long route. That will alone be about 7m if your amp is towards the right in the trunk of your car. 5m for the front right. And another 7 m for both the rears should do it. (Where will the wire to the rear left be running from? )

Sheeesh. I was planning to take the left rear all the way round the right sill.

Ok lets put it this way. I don't want to touch the power wire which runs through the centre of the car. I also don't want to touch the remote wire that runs along the left doors.

That leaves the RCAs (currently along left side) and the speaker wires. Whats the best route for the speaker wires? The left speakers along the left and right along the right?

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by shuvc

Well till you appoint a decent dealer/installer at Kolkata, DIY seems to be the way to go if one wants Illusions and GZ

Sadly that is true :(

Originally Posted by shuvc

Hehe, that reminds me. The instal guys discouraged (with a lot of conviction I must say) putting the fuse in. Apparently they had done it for many cars, and the owners had to frequently come back with blown fuses. I am guessing that inadequate fuses were put in.

All the more reason to put fuses.

Originally Posted by shuvc

Are fuses sold separately? Cost? How do I fit one?

Fuseholder + fuse = Rs. 450/- . Cut the power wire in the engine compartment at a length where after attaching the fuseholder, you can mount the fuseholder on some surafce. Each end of the now split cable goes into the two opposite ends of the fuseholder. Remove the fuse while doing these operations. Put the fuse after the wires are firmly secured to the ends of the fuseholder AND everything is sorted out in the trunk.

Originally Posted by shuvc

Any links with a snap of this contraption?

[img=http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7550/terminalmc1.th.jpg]

Originally Posted by shuvc

Ok lets put it this way. I don't want to touch the power wire which runs through the centre of the car. I also don't want to touch the remote wire that runs along the left doors.

That leaves the RCAs (currently along left side) and the speaker wires. Whats the best route for the speaker wires? The left speakers along the left and right along the right?

Yes, best way is to have the left speaker wires along the left, and right along the right.

[low_bass_makker]

Good to fellow DIY people grow. In the end of the day it is just few wires and some mechanicals.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Fuseholder + fuse = Rs. 450/- . Cut the power wire in the engine compartment at a length where after attaching the fuseholder, you can mount the fuseholder on some surafce. Each end of the now split cable goes into the two opposite ends of the fuseholder.
Remove the fuse while doing these operations. Put the fuse after the wires are firmly secured to the ends of the fuseholder AND everything is
sorted out in the trunk.

- Before splitting the cable I guess I need to disconnect it at either the battery end or the Amp end? Which is preferrable? I'd prefer Amp end.
- It is probably a 8gauge wire. Not sure. Hope I'll be able to cut it with a standard wire cutter?
- Where do I get fuse replacements?
- Do I need to drill any holes into, say the engine firewall, to mount the fuseholder? Or can I anchor it with some wire, say on the top of the strut?

Crimp & Spade terminals
- Does it require any special tool to fix the wire to the terminal?

Right - now onto damping.
- Do the sheets have adhesive on one side? Or do I need to get adhesive separately?
- Can they be cut with normal pairs of scissors? Or is it easier with knives, paper cutters etc?
- Given that I don't want to go into the process of removing power window, central locking assemblies, how much can I realistically damp?
- The OEM plastic sheet covering the door needs to be removed? Will this have any effect on water seeping through during the monsoons?
- I was wondering, the door is made of metal. The door pad of plastic. Wont the plastic need more damping? Will it not be more VFM if the inner surface of the door pad is damped instead of the metal?
- Do damping material become brittle in the long run? How long do they last?

[razor4077]

My 2 cents on some of your questions.

- It is probably a 8gauge wire. Not sure. Hope I'll be able to cut it with a standard wire cutter?
Yes

- Where do I get fuse replacements?
Accessory shops like Glix should have it. If not, I'm sure you can source them from Mumbai, Delhi etc.

- Do I need to drill any holes into, say the engine firewall, to mount the fuseholder? Or can I anchor it with some wire, say on the top of the strut?
No drilling required. You can anchor it to existing structures, for example, the fuse box.

Right - now onto damping.
- Do the sheets have adhesive on one side? Or do I need to get adhesive separately?
They do have adhesive.

- Can they be cut with normal pairs of scissors? Or is it easier with knives, paper cutters etc?
Knives and paper cutters are easier to use from what I have seen, though scissors can be used as well.

Let me know when you're doing this. Would be glad to lend a helping hand where I can

[shuvd]

Originally Posted by razor4077

Let me know when you're doing this. Would be glad to lend a helping hand where I can

Me too. Finally, Calcutta gets its own ICE Guru

[razor4077]

Originally Posted by shuvd

Me too. Finally, Calcutta gets its own ICE Guru

Yup, shuvc is the new Kolkata ICE guru! But nura is another candidate

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by razor4077

Yup, shuvc is the new Kolkata ICE guru! But nura is another candidate

- an ICE guru who has to call up people to find out how to connect -ve and +ve terminals !??

Thanks for the helping hands though. But not sure when I'll do it. Preferably take a day off from office, else wifey is going to be pretty cross, if I spend all Sat/Sun downstairs in the garage.

To summarise, I still have these doubts/queries.

-Is it difficult to pass the speaker wire from the footwell, through the pipe that goes into the front doors? Any techniques that might help?

- To connect the fuse, before splitting the cable I guess I need to disconnect it at either the battery end or the Amp end? Which is preferrable? I'd prefer Amp end.

- Does it require any special tool to fix the speaker wire to the Crimp & Spade terminals?

- The OEM plastic sheet covering the door needs to be removed for damping the metal? Will this have any effect on water seeping through during the monsoons?

- How many sq ft of damping required for the front doors? Say I damp the door pad inner and bits of the metal. 7-10sq ft each door?

- What would be the approx weight of a 12" sub in a sealed box? I'm wondering if it'll topple over, like the 'golu' Soomoku used to when taking sharp corners or during hard braking.

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by shuvc

-Is it difficult to pass the speaker wire from the footwell, through the pipe that goes into the front doors? Any techniques that might help?

Not difficult. Pass the wire through the same tube that carries the power window wire etc. For this, you'll have to detach that tube at both ends and use a metal taar at the door end and push it out from the other end. Then connect the wire to the taar using adhesive tape or something and pull the taar out so that the wire now passes through the tube.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- To connect the fuse, before splitting the cable I guess I need to disconnect it at either the battery end or the Amp end? Which is preferrable? I'd prefer Amp end.

Not required if your cutter has insulated handles. Preferable end is the battery end however. Downstream of the cutting point you cant damage anything unless the system is powered on.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- Does it require any special tool to fix the speaker wire to the Crimp & Spade terminals?

Ideally a crimping plier. Next best, a regular plier.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- The OEM plastic sheet covering the door needs to be removed for damping the metal? Will this have any effect on water seeping through during the monsoons?

Remove it and replace it with a damping mat of the same size.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- How many sq ft of damping required for the front doors? Say I damp the door pad inner and bits of the metal. 7-10sq ft each door?

For full damping, i.e. one sheet on the door inner skin, to replace the plastic sheet and wherever you can accomodate on the door panel, you're looking at about 12-15 sq. ft. per door.

Originally Posted by shuvc

- What would be the approx weight of a 12" sub in a sealed box? I'm wondering if it'll topple over, like the 'golu' Soomoku used to when taking sharp corners or during hard braking.

Approx 7-8 kilos. If the enclosure has a broader base, it'll not topple.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Not difficult. Pass the wire through the same tube that carries the power window wire etc. For this, you'll have to detach that tube at both ends and use a metal taar at the door end and push it out from the other end. Then connect the wire to the taar using adhesive tape or something and pull the taar out so that the wire now passes through the tube.

Hmm. I was thinking on similar lines - i.e. to tie the new wire through the speaker hole on the door, to the old wire. Now pull out the old wire from the footwell. The new wire should follow.

One thing I did not get. Why detach the tube?

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Not required if your cutter has insulated handles. Preferable end is the battery end however.

Yep, I have one of those short-stubby-triangular-nosed-insulated-handle wire cutters. Probably Taparia. Will switch off ignition, pray to god and then cut. Like they cut the nuclear bomb detonator wires in Hollywood flicks. Thankfully there's only one wire. Not a blue and a red to choose from.

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Ideally a crimping plier. Next best, a regular plier.

Will have to make do with a regular then.

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

If the enclosure has a broader base, it'll not topple.

I'm hoping, you'll take care of that aspect

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by shuvc

One thing I did not get. Why detach the tube?

To insert the taar?

Originally Posted by shuvc

Like they cut the nuclear bomb detonator wires in Hollywood flicks. Thankfully there's only one wire. Not a blue and a red to choose from.

Go for it, Arnie.

Originally Posted by shuvc

I'm hoping, you'll take care of that aspect

[shuvc]

DIY is fun. Managed to hook up everything.

Apologies upfront. No snaps. I worked alone, against time and the hands got really dirty, so dropped the idea of taking snaps.

Primary lesson learnt. Newbie DIYers, should factor in a lot of extra time. I had planned to complete the following in 1 day.
1. HU to rear speakers wiring
2. Amp to front speakers wiring
3. Damping front doors
4. Connecting amp power cable fuse in the engine bay
5. Fit the Neutrik Speakon in the box, connect the sub and fix it to the box, Fix sub protector grill
6. Connect the sub to the Amp

I received the parcel from B&T on Thursday 17th Jan. Planned to finish the setup on Friday.

Thursday night
Status Completed Step 5 above. Did not fix protector grill, since did not have proper washers/screws.

Friday morning started work around 11:30ish. Connected the rear speakers to the HU quickly. Then got stuck. It took me 3-4 hours to pass the speaker wire from the driver footwell to the right door. In the process sprained my left arm/shoulder. At one point of time I had almost given up and resigned to sticking the stock wires. But the Illusion Reference wires looked/felt so good, they kept me going. I just HAD to use them. So went to a nearby hardware store, bought a few feet of stiff wire ('taar') and finally met with success. I was getting late in picking up wifey from office, so hurriedly connected the sub and called it a day.
Status Completed Step 1, Step 6 and 50% of Step2. So much for my project plan.

Saturday morning, had just enough time,amidst other household chores, to fix the fuse and attend to a bit of static that had crept in. I realised India was faring better when I was not watching the match, hence had a quick lunch and went back to the garage.
With the confidence of having cracked the wiring for the right door, I attacked the left door with gusto. This time it was a lot quicker. Managed to wire the left front in an hour and a half! Cleaned up some wiring.
Then went onto damping the left door. Finished the inner metal frame around 6pm. Went home for tea with the left door panel. Damped the door panel at home and fixed it later at night.
Status Completed Step 4, step 2, 50% of step 3.

Sunday morning was spent at the doc (Son's throat infection and viral).
Completed damping the driver side door in the afternoon. Took me another 3 hours approx. Tried to do a neater and more comprehensive job compared to the left door. Then spent some time tuning the setup.
Status Competed Step3

PHEW !
Started off for work this morning and realised for the first time how different the music sounded compared to Saturday morning, ie. post damping. The depth has increased a lot. It sounds so full now. And am loving the sub, more for the bass guitar pieces than the drums. Lovely.

Pending tasks.
1. Cleanup wires in the boot.
2. Fit sub protector grill.

There's one issue though:
The rear ELs are very faint. Barely audible at a volume level of say 30 (the Pio 4950 goes up to 60 odd). Even when I fade it fully to the rear. Doesn't seem to affect the listening experience, but am just wondering why it is so. The current settings are:
- EQ Flat
- Sub LPF 100hz from HU, HU boost 0
- Speakers HPF 100hz from HU
- Fader at centre/0
- SLA set to 0
- Amp gain for both sub and fronts are at around 2-3V

- HU speaker level out directly connected to rear speakers. I have tested that the correct wires are connected. This has been done using janta local speaker wire that the car acc shops use.


Ajay ! A truckload of thanks to you

[planet_rocker]

ooh! awsome - though i am not much into ICE - i would love to get a demo of the setup!

congrats man! i was like hmmmmm - when you first told me about your project last week. never thought you were serious - bindaas! jaa-taa!