Team-BHP - Query on Very Basic ICE setup for Vista

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Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 (Post 1171993)

Now I have one more reason why not to go for 6x9" on traylol:. One of my friend told me that by fitting on tray the sound would be louder to the persons who sit on the rear(my parents who would not like that loud sound). To get the effect of the rear speakers one needs to increase the volume so that the driver can feel that, but by this time it becomes quite unbearable to the passengers on the rear seat. Whats your say on this? If i were ready to sacrifice some amount of bass for the above reason what config you suggest?

almost all HU's these days come with a fader which you can use to change the front/rear balance. I'd suggest you use it to bias the sound towards the front anyway , and in case the passengers are uncomfortable , even more. You can always turn it back up once they are gone. I've never had my music up to the point where it has become unbearable , ever ( and my mother/sister are a whiny bunch). If you put the speakers in the door, you will get NO effect. For the last time , I would strongly recommend that you not install speakers in the rear door unless
1. you really hate adding the MDF tray
2. dont want you speakers sticking out in the back for all the world to see
3. sound quality is not a priority
otherwise get them. Its not without good reason that they're the most popular rear config

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1) 5.25" Coaxials in front and rear doors and a 4" coaxial in the dash?

for the price of the 5" in the front doors and 4" in the dash, you can get a good set of components

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2) I asked one accessory guy he told me that a 4" coaxial can not be fit on the dash because the speaker top interferes with the dash board.I mean the height of the speaker is the problem now and not the diameter.Do you have any idea of it? Has 200mph put 4" coaxials in his dash?

4"ers are the only speakers that can be installed there. tata cant be THAT dumb to make 4" install locations which cant fit 4" speakers :p. having said that , I'm not that sure, Its just that i feel that its highly improbable. Why not just try it out, cant be that hard. I'm no sure about what he's used

Hello Gurus,
Once again back with some more information. I visited many accessory shops in Pune, Bhandari and Sunny at JM road, Poona Motors at East street. Ultimately I found one small but good shop in New Rasta peth called Plaza quite reasonable in there prices.He has already installed ICE for two of my friends car.
Following are the prices quoted by the shop:
PIONEER HU 2190: 6700 (With bill)
PIONEER HU 2150 (same model as above only no. change): 5300 (Without bill)
JBL 637 Oval series: 3250 which includes JBL 4" coaxials free (without bill)
JBL 938 (DECADE): 3250 (without bill)
JBL 4": 900 (without bill)
JBL 5.25" cOMPONENTS: 3650 (without bill)
JBL 5.25" Coaxial GT5S205 (DECADE): 2450 (without bill)
JBL 5.25" Coaxial GT5 1205B (Non Decade) : 1450 (without bill).
A) First please tell me is it ok if i go for the Pio Headset 2150 (Grey)? Are the Grey market Pio's duplicates or locally assembled using Pioneer Parts? If the sound quality of both are same then I am ready to take the risk.
B) As I am not planning to install a amp or a sub in future, should i really go for JBL 938 Series (Decade) as compared to JBL 637 (Non Decade). One of the acessory guy told me that it would be of no use to put a decade speaker if I would not go for Amp. I mean I dont want to spend money purchasing High end speakers,if i would not be able to use the entire capacity of the speakers.
C) Now I have two options:
Please suggest which one would be better for me in the driver position,(Sound quality for rear seat passengers is not a priority):
I have put the following options as per my budget:
1) PIO HU (grey) + JBL Ovals in tray (637 series) with free 4 inch speakers in dash.(Lowest cost)
2) Pio HU (grey) + JBL components 5.25" in front door + JBL 5.25" (Non Decade) (Highest cost)
3) Pio HU (grey) + JBL Coaxials 5.25" (Decade) in front door and 5.25" Coaxials in rear door (Non Decade) (Medium Cost)
Other than above options are crossing my budget. Can you rank them as per the sound effect they would create.
Thankyou Greenhorn and others for guiding me till now.
@ Greenhorn I understand Greenhorn by your emphasis that having speakers in the door will never create the same effect if one has it in the tray or dash.

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Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 (Post 1176524)

The prices still seem to be on the high side. for this cost , you can get hold of the older 3050 /4050 which has 2/3 pre outs.

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JBL 637 Oval series: 3250 which includes JBL 4" coaxials free (without bill)
JBL 938 (DECADE): 3250 (without bill)
JBL 4": 900 (without bill)
JBL 5.25" cOMPONENTS: 3650 (without bill)
JBL 5.25" Coaxial GT5 S205 (DECADE): 2450 (without bill)

prices for the speakers look fine.

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JBL 5.25" Coaxial GT5 1205B (Non Decade) : 1450 (without bill).

I am not aware of such a model. the model name looks like that of a subwoofer :p

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A) First please tell me is it ok if i go for the Pio Headset 2150 (Grey)? Are the Grey market Pio's duplicates or locally assembled using Pioneer Parts? If the sound quality of both are same then I am ready to take the risk.

grey market pioneers are original. buy them with confidence

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B) As I am not planning to install a amp or a sub in future, should i really go for JBL 938 Series (Decade) as compared to JBL 637 (Non Decade). One of the acessory guy told me that it would be of no use to put a decade speaker if I would not go for Amp. I mean I dont want to spend money purchasing High end speakers,if i would not be able to use the entire capacity of the speakers.

I'm not sure what this guy means by decade. the 938 works fine without an amp

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C) Now I have two options:
Please suggest which one would be better for me in the driver position,(Sound quality for rear seat passengers is not a priority):
I have put the following options as per my budget:

To be honest , I dont like any of the configs you have come up with. I've taken the liberty of suggesting some improvements

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1) PIO HU (grey) + JBL Ovals in tray (637 series) with free 4 inch speakers in dash.(Lowest cost)

I have serious doubts if the free 4" ers will be JBL ones. all probably some cheaper stuff. If they are genuine JBL, Buy this if you want bass. bass will be JUST about enough. 6x9's would be a better option

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2) Pio HU (grey) + JBL components 5.25" in front door + JBL 5.25" (Non Decade) (Highest cost)

Buy this if clarity is more important

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3) Pio HU (grey) + JBL Coaxials 5.25" (Decade) in front door and 5.25" Coaxials in rear door (Non Decade) (Medium Cost)

Avoid . this setup wont have either bass or clarity

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Other than above options are crossing my budget. Can you rank them as per the sound effect they would create.
Thankyou Greenhorn and others for guiding me till now.
@ Greenhorn I understand Greenhorn by your emphasis that having speakers in the door will never create the same effect if one has it in the tray or dash.

tell me your budget and how much the tray and other parts will cost. Maybe i can come up with an alternate config :D

PS: Ask him if he has any blaupunkt stuff. THey are usually cheaper

Oh guys I got your precious inputs little bit late. As I plan to fit the ICE from the car dealer I purchased all the stuff and will hand over to the car dealer before delivery for fitment.

Following are the details:
a) Pioneer headset 2150: Rs5300 (Without bill)
b) JBL front coaxial GT5S205 (DECADE): 2450 (With Bill)
c) JVC coaxial for rear door CSV625: Rs 1750 (With Bill)
Total: 9500 Rs
The JBL Normal speakers which he had shown (Non Decade) had very less bass so substituted with JVC ones which sounded quite good. GT5S205 sounded quite good as compared to JBL normal ones.
JVC Mobile In-Car Entertainment, Car Stereo, Audio Car Stereos, Car HiFi Systems, In-Car Hi-Fi, In-Car DVD, Car Hi Fi Amps & Speakers, Extreme ICE (The jvc model which i selected)
By looking at revhappys speaker prices am very disappointed:Frustrati the dealer gave me only a 40rs discount on the MRP of JBL GT5S205.
@revhappy did you purchase with bill and warranty the above speakers? My dealer wont budge on the prices. I purchased all this in pune from plaza car stereo,navi peth. Well anyway I have booked a caverngrey Vista TDI so I will be joining the TDI family of TeamBhp very soon.Thanks for all your posts it helped me a lot in knowing the car.
@greenhorn Thanks a ton for all your inputs,well i know the configuration which I purchased would not be rated as the best in my budget but I did not want the speakers on the tray for two reasons: a) Soundstage is shifted back and the driver has to increase the volume to get effect of the rear speakers.I experienced this in my friends santro with rear blaupunkt ovals.For rear persons its great but for driver seat the effect was not so good. b) My parents wont like the hammering right at the back of there ear. c) To avoid rattling of the tray d)wanted to save some dicky space.
For components dealer told me he need to drill holes and thats why i did not want to void the warranty.
I can still exchange the configuration with dealer as still i havent fit and car would take at least 7 days more to arrive.If you have any suggestions u can give me lol am so confused.:D

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Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 (Post 1205977)

Hi Amit,

Yes I purchased the speakers and HU with Bill and warranty. Team BHP ice section helped me a lot in getting down to the right installer in Bangalore.
I went to Sachin's Autoshop as lot of people had suggested it.

Your prices are not too different, again it may vary from city to city.
The only thing that is little odd is that you have mentioned 4" cost 900 Rs and 51/4" costs 2450 that difference is huge, probably you could have bargained on that one. But thats ok, as long as you liked the setup its all that matters.

And Congrats in Advance on your new car clap:

Cheers,
Nitin

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a) Soundstage is shifted back and the driver has to increase the volume to get effect of the rear speakers

Ideally you need the soundstage in front of you. thats why I recommended 4" coax or components. coax in the door will not make their prescence felt.

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My parents wont like the hammering right at the back of there ear.

you can set the fader to front. this would also have helped bring the soundstage forward. this is what I do

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To avoid rattling of the tray

From my experience, the wooden tray rattles less than my plastic tray. even my service advisor at the TASS agrees.

Drill holes for components? I think your dealer doesnt know what he is doing. Overcharging is bad enough, but this is too much. I got my components installed without drilling any holes anywhere. Too bad you have commited to him

Well guys finally my Vista TDI Aqua Cavern Grey has arrived. I had the ICE fitment done from the TASC, somehow i managed to get it fitted from him (Pioneer 2150, JBL GT205S Front door and JVC- Rear door)

The fitment was pathetic for the speakers. He didnt had a coupler(connector for pioneer to tata harness) so he used blaupunkt and cut it to join the coupler to the tape coupler. The GT5 Speakers as well as the JVC speakers height(depth) is more and it wont fit in the standard space. I mean the flange of the speaker will be at a distance away from the metal door.Other problem was the plastic door has plastic embossed (raised height) for fixing speaker screws if you planned to fit it on the plastic door.This raised height was causing problem while fitting of the panel to the door metal frame.

What the guys did was they removed the plastic embossing and they screwed the speaker on to the metal frame. Problem now is that there is a 10 mm gap or more between the flange of the speaker and the metal frame and those idiot guys used only two screws to fit it on the door. As they didnot use a MDF ring the flange of speaker has bent inwards, spoiling the speaker structure. I was pissed off, I am planning to reinstall all the speakers again from whom i purchased the ICE stuff using a MDF ring.

Well the good point here is that I got a fitment labour bill from TASC which will avoid my vehicle electrical warranty getting void and yes i have gone for a extended warranty after Greenhorns advice somewhere in the forum. Regarding the sound quality, what I found is that i got the sound stage which i wanted, I mean maxium of the sound coming from the front doors which is good for the drivers seat. At the rear seats one feel that the sound is coming from the front somewhere and not the rear tray and yes I liked this feeling surely.

Well regarding bass, I am getting a decent bass which satisfies my requirement but yes as Greenhorn has already mentioned I do not get the Thumps what ovals can give.But yes I havent still done the settings for the Headset and i dont know what I should do in it. Thanking you all the gurus for such a wonderful help in letting me select the right ICE.

bad fitment, as you've described = bad bass. since there is no seal at the speaker's flange. I told you dealers have no clue when it comes to ice install. If the guy has cut the wires from the car terminating in the connector ( to which the wiring harness is connected) he may have actually damaged your electricals. I suggest you keep the proof that your stereo was bought from the Dealer , in case a problem should arise later due to the bad install.

Now you will have to pay more for another installer, and i doubt good ones will do just reinstallation. I tried so hard , posted so much, and yet this happens. Its one of those " I told you so " moments. Oh well, its too late now.:Frustrati

@GreenHorn:
1) The TASC dealer has not cut the car wiring harness so car warranty is not void.
2) He gave me bill for fitment of tape and he assured me that no one claim that the electrical warranty is void because of the fitment.He charged me 750 rs total but yes now am assured as I have the bill from TASC.
3) The coupling harness comes with two ends one which fits to the Car Harness and the other side which fits to the HU.TASC had a coupler to suit Vista Harness with Blaupunkt HU,but my HU was Pio HU which I brought from outside so he didnot have the coupler harness for it.So he cut the coupler harness on the tape side and directly joined the wires to the HU side(I had got a HU coupler for Pio with other side loose wiring ends.This comes with the HU package.).He has not touched the wiring harness of the car and I would not have let him do so. After all the above exercise and extra money spent I got a proper bill which shows the fitment was done by TASC and so they cant void my warranty now.
4) For speaker fitment I will go to the outside dealer from whom I purchased to refit them with MDF ring. I had already told him that he would have to do refitment if the fitment was not done proper by the TASC.He had agreed to it, I will take my car to him next week and get the speakers refitted hope he helps now.
5) Well I agree with you regarding low bass due to absence of Ovals on trays. (although the present level of bass more than satisfies me and the sound quality does not get spoiled at around volume setting of 35+). The advantage what I percieve I got is of the sound stage which is what I wanted for. The sound comes to be coming from the front side when someone is in the rear seat and so I(who is in the driver seat) can raise the volume to quite high level without creating a problem to the backseat persons.Also I found that the front sound stage is really good for the driver at the same times it feels pleasant for the rear seat persons to have the sound coming from front rather than back. I know all this is subjective but from my experience in friends santro I didnot like the sound coming directly below the ears from the Ovals on the tray.To add to the problem I really had to increase the volume quite a bit to get the effect from oval speakers in tray to the front. I am not an audiophile but I think i need to get more auditions to realise what you were saying.Anyway thanks a lot for all your help and I strongly feel that all your inputs did lead me to choose a very good HU and JBL Speakers. You tried your level best to help me and it did really help a lot.Thanks again buddy.:D:thumbs up