[navin]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

I thought any sub can be made to sound upfront - "integration with front stage" - by manipulating the relative phase of the low f part

TA just makes this whoel excersie so much easier besides TA is variable. Most sub amps only have a 0/180 phase switch. With TA you can set the delay in ms.

[iceman91]

so 48k for a 12" Ultimo is worth it? or better producsts available? I prefer SQ not BOOM BOOM.

[Invinsible]

Well I may be right or I may be wrong. But how many subs can blend with the front stage without using the TA /EQ.
Let's have a list of them. I would be interested in one.
Iceman you can have a read on caraudiomag.com, there is a review on Morel Ultimo.

[iceman91]

Thanks invinsible!
will check it out.

[Invinsible]

Well I may be right or I may be wrong. But how many subs can blend with the front stage without using the TA /EQ.
Let's have a list of them. I would be interested in one.
Iceman you can have a read on caraudiomag.com, there is a review on Morel Ultimo.

[Invinsible]

Originally Posted by iceman91

Thanks invinsible!
will check it out.

You will need to look for a sub with low inductance, important for faster transient response/wider bandwidth and low moving mass, allowing higher efficiency. Let's us ask the experts here to list the one's available here.

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by Invinsible

You will need to look for a sub with low inductance, important for faster transient response/wider bandwidth and low moving mass, allowing higher efficiency. Let's us ask the experts here to list the one's available here.

If there is Higher Efficiency then there will a little fall in the low end part.

There should be a good balance of all the things.

[Invinsible]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

If there is Higher Efficiency then there will a little fall in the low end part.

There should be a good balance of all the things.

Well a good example will be of subs which have low inductance and low moving mass would Aura Sound NS series and JBL wgti series. They do go low and have strong bottom end. This is something what is known to me as I had also questioned Dan Wiggins about this and got the same response.
Iceman you could also consider one of these, they have an advantage over Morels and would cost less unless you get one from US. At the cost of Morel you can find many subs which are better in sound and have technological advantage.
Am not sure if Wgti subs are available here. May be Sambhai could conform this.

[DerAlte]

Err... who is Dan Wiggins? Sorry, but the farthest I have heard on this subject is from Guru Vinny, Sam Kapasi, Harmeet Singh Shetty and Bhai Freedabadwale.

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by Invinsible

Well I may be right or I may be wrong. But how many subs can blend with the front stage without using the TA /EQ.
Let's have a list of them.

There's only one, it's called .. 'Magic' sub.

There are few major factors (and many not-so-major ones) that would determine whether what you are saying will happen or not -

1. Installer
2. Car
3. Front Speakers
4. Location of Sub

While you do need a good subwoofer driver, any of the above could very easily play spoilsport if not chosen wisely.

[m4ugr8]

I had personally checked out the Morel Tempo Series component speakers, and the build quality was not impressive at all, Considering the price its available at, around 13k I suppose, The build quality failed to impress me and I was made to think twice before spending 13k on it.

Did not get a chance to hear it, so cant comment on the SQ capabilities of the drivers. There are far many options available at that price, which may sound even better.

@DerAlte: have you heard the Morel Ultimo series subwoofer??

[iceman91]

invinsible that whole post flew over my head
only understood JBL from the whole post

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by m4ugr8

... @DerAlte: have you heard the Morel Ultimo series subwoofer??

No sir, I am waiting for someone to buy one and humbly request for an audition. At that price, I will have to file for Chapter 11 if I have to buy it, but then there always better endowed members here who can.

But, even without hearing one personally, one can be / has to be skeptical of claims which defy conventional logic (experienced by thousands around the world), physics and good old common sense. I don't look down on any product, since in good hands and within limits, a 4.8K sub can be made to sound like one that costs 48K. As Navin puts it, we are always on the lookout for something that can give us goosebumps, but not because of price or show-off value.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Invinsible

You will need to look for a sub with low inductance, important for faster transient response/wider bandwidth and low moving mass, allowing higher efficiency. Let's us ask the experts here to list the one's available here.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Err... who is Dan Wiggins?

Dan Wiggins was the founder of Adire Audio. Adire became famous for their subwoofers (used for Home Theater). These subs (other than the Koda and Parthenon) were given names of Indian gods - Khosala, Kanada, Kiri, Daeva, Rava, Dharman, Shiva. Brahma, etc or stormy weather aka Tempest, Maelstorm, Tumult etc..

Dan Wiggins answered almost every mail he recieved himself as honestly and correctly as he could and hence many people quote him becuase his answers were most often correct, well addressed and put simply. He wrote a lot of papers (the most notable are the ones on Group Delay, Subwoofer placement and tuning, and explaining his XBL2 technology). His research in subwoofe rmotors (XBL2) has been absorbed by ScanSpeak, Dynaudio and even Skanning some call it using other names like Direct Drive but what XBL did was to make the subwoofer more linear during it's excusrsion hence reducing subwoofer distortion as shown here
Subwoofer driver comparison

Today affordable drivers wit XBL technology can be got from Creative Sound (CSS), Peerless, etc.

That's the jist of what I know. LBM or some of the better Googlemeisters and dig up links and other info. What I know is from what I have read over the years.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

As Navin puts it, we are always on the lookout for something that can give us goosebumps, but not because of price or show-off value.

If a speaker system or for that matter an audio system can get my feet tapping and me enjoying the music rather than looking for defects in the recording, mastering or pressing processes it is doing it's job. Some companies (pre 80s Klipsch, Magneplanar, B&K, etc.) have done this consistently. Of the

[Invinsible]

Today affordable drivers wit XBL technology can be got from Creative Sound (CSS), Peerless, etc.

Not many of them are able to succed even with having XBL^2 technology, as the other factors also matter, some sound thick, some sound dry, some have a good low end but get dry on top end frequency. But yes they do help produce undistorted sound even on higher output/high excursion as they help in creating flat BL curve. Also like to add to that Exodus Audio, RE XXX, and there are lot many but don't have big names so their selling is limited to US. Also learnt from DAN, that Peerless India is coming up Neo Magnet XBL^2 for a well known brand Not sure if I can disclose the name of the same.

Here's little info on DAN Wiggins in addition to what Navin mentioned.

"Dan Wiggins is ADI’s Chief Technical Officer and resident Mad Scientist. An Electrical Engineer by training, he has 20 years of professional engineering experience. His acoustics background includes SONAR, ultrasound, and audio transducer and system development. He has developed several patented, patent-pending, and proprietary technologies targeted towards improving linearity in acoustical transducers. In addition to his technical background, Dan has fifteen years of executive level engineering management experience leading cross-discipline teams in research and development in a wide variety of product markets, including 3 years as a lead Design Engineer at Sundstrand Data Control, 5 years as Chief Engineer of BioSonics, Inc., a leading manufacturer of scientific and research SONAR systems, and 7 years as President and CEO of Extremis Audio LLC where he launched many revolutionary products and technologies in the consumer audio markets."