[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

... Would it be possible to buy another pioneer unit that advertises (Learning WIRED REMOTE INPUT)
and have it work with existing audio controls ?

Do these head units have a port that accepts wired controls? Is that port standard across manufacturers. ...

The interface is standard at the vehicle harness end, but not at the HU manufacturer's end. Pio, Kenwood/JVC, Alpine, Clarion, Sony et al provide hardware and method to interface to the steering control buttons, but not for all cars.

There are also 3rd party interface boxes available to interface steering control buttons to an aftermarket HU. Installers usually have those.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The interface is standard at the vehicle harness end, but not at the HU manufacturer's end.

Thanks , what is the industry norm for this scenario(Low volume Toyota car and Pioneer supplied Head Unit)..

Will Pioneer adapt to Toyota's interface or will Toyota use Pioneer's interface. Toyota used Pioneer's remote with just re-brand for this car.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Thanks , what is the industry norm for this scenario(Low volume Toyota car and Pioneer supplied Head Unit).. ...

Haven't heard of an industry norm in this context. They are always car model / manufacturer specific.

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

... Will Pioneer adapt to Toyota's interface or will Toyota use Pioneer's interface. ...

Pioneer will adapt / conform to Toyota harness points. Ditto for any other OE HU manufacturer.

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

... Toyota used Pioneer's remote with just re-brand for this car.

Pioneer would have supplied the OE unit to Toyota. Remote would carry Toyota logo, certifying OE. Same is done by others - Bosch, Visteon, Grundig, Blaupunkt, Kenwood etc., when they supply OE HUs.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Pioneer will adapt / conform to Toyota harness points. Ditto for any other OE HU manufacturer.

Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Pioneer would have supplied the OE unit to Toyota. Remote would carry Toyota logo

In this case, remote is very clearly identifiable as Pioneer. This is somewhat surprising, I assumed that Toyota would ask suppliers to make it look different from generic pioneer remotes (to make supplier brand less obvious and to differentiate itself).

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

... In this case, remote is very clearly identifiable as Pioneer. This is somewhat surprising, I assumed that Toyota would ask suppliers to make it look different from generic pioneer remotes (to make supplier brand less obvious and to differentiate itself).

The OE market is extremely price sensitive. The car manufacturer has to pay for the development costs of "making it look different" (the wonderful principle of TANSTAFL). If the car manufacturer wants them cheaper, they make concessions and allow co-branding.

For example, earlier Tatas would never bother to put their logo on ICE, so Blaupunkt / Alpine etc. would give equipment with their branding directly (of course at less than direct consumer price). However, they have changed policy now, and get co-branded stuff from Blaupunkt, Pioneer etc. (Storme, ...).

Others take only one model from only one OE supplier for deployment across car models, and have only their logo appear on it - for example, Renault, Ford etc.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The OE market is extremely price sensitive. The car manufacturer has to pay for the development costs of "making it look different"

Makes sense in this context (Low-tier car for Toyota that is only sold in BRIC and is built to a cost, and Toyota will be trying to save rupees on everything on BOM)

This car has:

1. Pioneer 2-Din HU with USB, FM
2. Front Speakers (4 Inch), Rear speakers (6 Inch), 2 Tweeters

This is my overall plan:

1. Longish test drive with a selection of Music on USB
2. Make a guess on quality of music after speaker upgrade (without headunit upgrade)
3. Plan for Headunit upgrade + adapters for controls after an year or two (or after three year warranty expires)

I am comparing sound quality with current setup setup in Alto (Pioneer HU + 4 Inch Fronts + 6x9 Inch Ovals)

What I am trying to get out of Headunit upgrade:

1. Smartphone integration via AppRadio or similar tech
2. GPS Navigation
3. (not sure if this is possible) MID via CANBUS

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

... 3. (not sure if this is possible) MID via CANBUS

Not with the regular 2DIN HUs from Pio/Kenwood/Sony/Blaupunkt. For that you will need one of the Android based HUs to run a diagnostics app.

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

1. Why 2 channel amp (considering they are not VFM a.c.t. 4 channel amps)?

2. Why 200W RMS? Per channel or Total capability?


1. Have you auditioned these speakers? If not, that is the first thing you should do forgetting about the power rating.

I just have two Rockford fosgate speakers in my car driven by a Sony HU. I feel it is lacking punch. If 4 channel is more vfm I'll get that. The speakers are rated at 50w I think, so 100w per channel is what I am looking at.

I don't want to end up with a dry harsh sounding amp, so I thought I'd ask around for which amp is best for a musical foot tapping drive?

PS also need a good FM antenna mountable on bullbar.

Thanks

[Ragul]

OK after some online research I am thinking I'll settle for a kicker dx200.4 or or a dx125.2 even if they don't push an RMS 1.5 times the speaker rating.

How are these amps? Are they available locally?

R

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Ragul

... The speakers are rated at 50w I think, so 100w per channel is what I am looking at. ...

What you need is an amp rated 40-60W rms *per channel*. Each channel will drive one set of components / coaxials, or 2 channels bridged will drive a sub. In actual usage, you will seldom - if ever - need to push more than that, and usually the sound will distort at the speaker's power limit, not the amp's.

Originally Posted by Ragul

... I don't want to end up with a dry harsh sounding amp, so I thought I'd ask around for which amp is best for a musical foot tapping drive? ...

Originally Posted by Ragul

OK after some online research I am thinking I'll settle for a kicker dx200.4 or or a dx125.2 even if they don't push an RMS 1.5 times the speaker rating.
How are these amps? Are they available locally?

If you want something musical, go for Kenwood / JBL / Pioneer.

Service availability is suspect for the other brands. Check before buying, and don't be satisfied with answers like "Arrey, we are there no. Just bring it to us" - sure sign of lacking A.S.S. by the brand. Dealer support is a palliative at best.

Originally Posted by Ragul

... PS also need a good FM antenna mountable on bullbar. ...

Why on the bullbar? That is a rather difficult location to mount antenna.

If you are worried about signal strength, try a folding-T antenna - it is mounted between the IRVM and windshield. In terms of RF signal, it is in a completely transparent area. Costs about 300-400 at auto accessory shops.

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

What you need is an amp rated 40-60W rms *per channel*. Each channel will drive one set of components / coaxials, or 2 channels bridged will drive a sub. In actual usage, you will seldom - if ever - need to push more than that, and usually the sound will distort at the speaker's power limit, not the amp's.


If you want something musical, go for Kenwood / JBL / Pioneer.

Service availability is suspect for the other brands. Check before buying, and don't be satisfied with answers like "Arrey, we are there no. Just bring it to us" - sure sign of lacking A.S.S. by the brand. Dealer support is a palliative at best.

Why on the bullbar? That is a rather difficult location to mount antenna.

If you are worried about signal strength, try a folding-T antenna - it is mounted between the IRVM and windshield. In terms of RF signal, it is in a completely transparent area. Costs about 300-400 at auto accessory shops.

Er OK I though one channel for left and one for right. So you are saying once channel in a car audio amp is actually L+R?

Bullbar has a hole for antenna mount with fancy looks. I can settle for a T antenna but the last one I purchased had a problem with one and only channel - FM 100.10 which is the only channel I want to really listen to. All other channels showed improved stereo separation and clarity and crispiness, but this channel refused to lock on and was overwhelmed with noise. I wonder what it was about this frequency and the FM amplifier that made it so. Is there a good brand for the T antenna?

I'll check on Kenwood and pioneer.

Thanks!

R

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Ragul

Er OK I though one channel for left and one for right. So you are saying once channel in a car audio amp is actually L+R? ...

Sorry for triggering confusion!

Amps are usually marked something like Channel A and Channel B, each of which has an L and an R connector for input (RCA or high level) and output (individual speakers). Each speaker connection has a + and a -. "Bridging" refers to connecting a speaker across the L and R connectors, i.e. one wire to the + of the L, and the other to the - of R (this gives at least twice the per-channel power to a speaker, which in most cases is a Subwoofer).

When one says, in electronics parlance, "per channel", it refers to the power the amp can put out to one speaker (not L-R pair of speakers connected to "Channel A" or "Channel B").

Originally Posted by Ragul

Bullbar has a hole for antenna mount with fancy looks. I can settle for a T antenna but the last one I purchased had a problem with one and only channel - FM 100.10 which is the only channel I want to really listen to. All other channels showed improved stereo separation and clarity and crispiness, but this channel refused to lock on and was overwhelmed with noise. I wonder what it was about this frequency and the FM amplifier that made it so. Is there a good brand for the T antenna? ...

Try a Bosch / Blaupunkt T-antenna. That bullbar hole is meant for a whip antenna (I would find it a distraction while driving). [In the Middle East, most SUVs have a very tall (8-12') whip antenna mounted on rear bumper, on the tip of which they mount a small colored flag. It is used to warn other vehicles if driving through sand dunes.]

Best would be to try out both the T and the whip antennas, and buy whichever performs better.

That FM channel must be transmitting over a low power RF transmitter. These channels (this is not the only one) always give a problem of locking on. The only way is to manually set the frequency, and see if there is a +/- 0.05Mhz error that they sometimes have (no idea why).

Some channels also misbehave if the channel frequency has a really powerful 'neighbor' in the air waves. For example, if one drives past the AIR campus on Raj Bhavan Road in Bangalore, almost all channels are knocked out - highly irritating.

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Sorry for triggering confusion!

Amps are usually marked something like Channel A and Channel B, each of which has an L and an R connector for input (RCA or high level) and output (individual speakers). Each speaker connection has a + and a -. "Bridging" refers to connecting a speaker across the L and R connectors, i.e. one wire to the + of the L, and the other to the - of R (this gives at least twice the per-channel power to a speaker, which in most cases is a Subwoofer).

When one says, in electronics parlance, "per channel", it refers to the power the amp can put out to one speaker (not L-R pair of speakers connected to "Channel A" or "Channel B").

Try a Bosch / Blaupunkt T-antenna. That bullbar hole is meant for a whip antenna (I would find it a distraction while driving). [In the Middle East, most SUVs have a very tall (8-12') whip antenna mounted on rear bumper, on the tip of which they mount a small colored flag. It is used to warn other vehicles if driving through sand dunes.]

Best would be to try out both the T and the whip antennas, and buy whichever performs better.

That FM channel must be transmitting over a low power RF transmitter. These channels (this is not the only one) always give a problem of locking on. The only way is to manually set the frequency, and see if there is a +/- 0.05Mhz error that they sometimes have (no idea why).

Some channels also misbehave if the channel frequency has a really powerful 'neighbor' in the air waves. For example, if one drives past the AIR campus on Raj Bhavan Road in Bangalore, almost all channels are knocked out - highly irritating.

Ok I'll try the Blaupunk T. The 100.10 channel had no problem with a regular antenna only the amplifed T. but this time I will do the purchase and installation after 6 pm when 100.10 is live on air so I'll know if I need to return it.

R

[Ragul]

Is the Sony xm gtx 60412 a smooth musical amp?
Or is Jbl gx-a644si better?

Thanks for your suggestions.
R

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Ragul

Is the Sony xm gtx 60412 a smooth musical amp?
Or is Jbl gx-a644si better? ...

Nothing wrong with it, but the JBL is much better (more robust too).