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Old 22nd August 2018, 16:24   #13696
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
The issue with the Civic is that the Electric Load Distributor limits the current from the Alternator and only charges the battery once the voltage drops below 12.5V. Also, since only the Blaupunkt amplifier cuts out and the JBL amplifier continues to work fine, I am inclined to believe that it is an issue with the Blaupunkt amplifier.
I wasn't aware of the ELD in the Civic so thanks for the pointer. On further reading I believe it's best to leave it alone and not bypass it due it being a safety component for the car's electrical system and key to the recharging process. However, even the ELD shouldn't affect the amplifier because as mentioned amps are designed to work in a pretty large voltage range.

The Civic has an 80 A alternator which should suffice for all practical purposes unless one installs an outlandishly powerful ICE system and other accessories.

I'd suggest temporarily plugging in another amplifier to ascertain if the ELD is really to blame or the amp's power circuitry. The latter is my suspect.

Quote:
The first thing I did was to get the entire wiring re-done. Hence wiring should not be the issue however I will get it checked this weekend. I hope it is an earthing issue.
During the rewiring process most electricians focus on +ve terminal connectivity while the earthing wire cable gets a cold shoulder. Both are equally important. The -ve wire gauge should be equal to the power input +ve cable and the earthing should be with a properly sized ring terminal and installed at a place where there is no paint or anti corrosive material acting as an insulator. This goes for both amps. Also make sure you have at least 8 AWG (approx 8 sq. mm) cable for the power and install inline fuses not more than 12" from the battery post for both amps. Fuses are mandatory. Please check the amp's instructions for suggested cable sizes. My Focal 4 Ch and SW amps take 4-8 AWG.

Quote:
Also, have recently noticed that while starting the car and while switching it off, there is a slight pop from the Morel's that are being powered by the Blaupunkt. I think this amplifier is on its way out.
Normally amps mute the output stage when the voltage drops, for e.g. when starting the car, to prevent such pops. I have my suspicions on the amp but please try another amplifier temporarily to eliminate the cause.

One more thing - next time you have the charging system checked please measure alternator output not just in volts but in amps at idle speed and at around 2000-2500 RPM. Two measures - one with and without all standard accessories including the headlamps and AC switched on at full speed. Your electrician or a battery shop should be able to help with this measurement.

PS - You can also consider adding inline capacitors for each amp.

Last edited by R2D2 : 22nd August 2018 at 16:37. Reason: added PS
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Old 22nd August 2018, 21:05   #13697
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
It might be worth trying out a DC voltage booster like this
https://www.amazon.in/xcluma-Convert...oost+converter

Maybe not as a long term solution, but at least you can use it to test your low voltage hypothesis
Thanks, greenhorn.

I will discuss this option with the installer. Unfortunately I am not well-versed to install this on my own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I wasn't aware of the ELD in the Civic so thanks for the pointer. On further reading I believe it's best to leave it alone and not bypass it due it being a safety component for the car's electrical system and key to the recharging process. However, even the ELD shouldn't affect the amplifier because as mentioned amps are designed to work in a pretty large voltage range.

The Civic has an 80 A alternator which should suffice for all practical purposes unless one installs an outlandishly powerful ICE system and other accessories.


I'd suggest temporarily plugging in another amplifier to ascertain if the ELD is really to blame or the amp's power circuitry. The latter is my suspect.
Thanks R2D2, I completely agree with what you have stated above. However, some amplifiers are more sensitive (for the lack of a better word) than others and that's the reason why the JBL amplifier continues to power the Focal components at the rear and the Subwoofer even when the Blaupunkt amplifier trips.

I will be trying a temporary amplifier over the weekend and hopefully that'll narrow down the issue to either the amplifier or the wiring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
During the rewiring process most electricians focus on +ve terminal connectivity while the earthing wire cable gets a cold shoulder. Both are equally important. The -ve wire gauge should be equal to the power input +ve cable and the earthing should be with a properly sized ring terminal and installed at a place where there is no paint or anti corrosive material acting as an insulator. This goes for both amps. Also make sure you have at least 8 AWG (approx 8 sq. mm) cable for the power and install inline fuses not more than 12" from the battery post for both amps. Fuses are mandatory. Please check the amp's instructions for suggested cable sizes. My Focal 4 Ch and SW amps take 4-8 AWG.
Thanks R2D2. I can only hope that the installer has taken into account all of the above. Nonetheless, I will be asking him the same over the weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Normally amps mute the output stage when the voltage drops, for e.g. when starting the car, to prevent such pops. I have my suspicions on the amp but please try another amplifier temporarily to eliminate the cause.

One more thing - next time you have the charging system checked please measure alternator output not just in volts but in amps at idle speed and at around 2000-2500 RPM. Two measures - one with and without all standard accessories including the headlamps and AC switched on at full speed. Your electrician or a battery shop should be able to help with this measurement.

PS - You can also consider adding inline capacitors for each amp.
The charging system was first checked at idle and then with all accessories (as mentioned by you above) switched on at about the 2500 RPM and everything was found to be working fine.

I will inquire about the capacitors as well.

In the event that this is not a wiring issue and the Blaupunk amplifier is required to be replaced, would you recommend getting a Class D amplifier instead of a Class AB one for powering the components?

Thanks,
Enigmatic

Last edited by Enigmatic : 22nd August 2018 at 21:07.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 21:11   #13698
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
Thanks, greenhorn.

I will discuss this option with the installer. Unfortunately I am not well-versed to install this on my own.
A typical installer may not be able to understand what it does. Think of this as a DC voltage stabilizer. You connect this to the 12v supply from the car,
There is a small potentiometer to adjust to set the voltage correctly ( you will need to use a multimeter to do it, and this is absolutely essential as it can output a wide range of voltages, some of which can blow up your amp). You will need to check the output voltage with both the car running and off, to make sure its within safe limits) , then you can connect the output of this into your amp.

Someone with some experience in electronics diy should not have a problem having this up and running.


WAIT!!! its the wrong board - thats a step down. Dont buy!
I can't find a step up on an indian site - will post once i find ont

Last edited by greenhorn : 22nd August 2018 at 21:18.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 15:47   #13699
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
In the event that this is not a wiring issue and the Blaupunk amplifier is required to be replaced, would you recommend getting a Class D amplifier instead of a Class AB one for powering the components?
Class D is normally for sub-woofers with their high power draw required to drive low frequency signals/bass. So if you do use a Class D use it for the SW.

Incidentally both my Focal amps, a 4 Ch and a SW, are Class AB with moderate power ratings of 75W RMS/channel x 4 Ohms and 300 W RMS x 4 Ohms respectively.

PS - BTW, my car audio amps and the SW are over 5 years old and outdated The components and rear 6x9s speakers are still available today.

Last edited by R2D2 : 23rd August 2018 at 15:52. Reason: added PS
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Old 24th August 2018, 18:33   #13700
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

Friends, I am looking for a double din headunit that supports un-distorted voltage close to 5V pre-out on a decent price. I understand that a high voltage pre-out can provide good quality audio signals with no amplifiers and fill the sound for a small cabin easily, or, provide good signal to assist the amplifier's performance, if amplifier is present.
I could only find Pioneer DEH 80PRS supporting this specification, but it is single din, does not play DVD, an old model, its price is ever increasing (slow but steady) over the years and now with the drop in rupee against the dollar, this unit appears too expensive now. The next reference model from Pioneer, the DEX-P99RS, too is a CD player and quite expensive too.
Can you suggest a good headunit?

Last edited by cs_rajesh : 24th August 2018 at 18:40. Reason: correcting terminology
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Old 24th August 2018, 21:16   #13701
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by cs_rajesh View Post
Friends, I am looking for a double din headunit that supports un-distorted voltage close to 5V pre-out on a decent price. I understand that a high voltage pre-out can provide good quality audio signals with no amplifiers and fill the sound for a small cabin easily, or, provide good signal to assist the amplifier's performance, if amplifier is present.
Most mid range units have voltage high (4/5 V) pre-outs. What is your budget? Take a look at Pioneer, Clarion and Blaupunkt double DIN HUs. These have DVD playback and touch screens.

Also, high voltage pre-out are connected to an amplifier's input, not to the speakers. Speakers are connected to "speaker out" or output terminals of the power amp section whether in component or integrated amplifiers.
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Old 24th August 2018, 23:10   #13702
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Most mid range units have voltage high (4/5 V) pre-outs. What is your budget? Take a look at Pioneer, Clarion and Blaupunkt double DIN HUs. These have DVD playback and touch screens.
Already checked those brands but each model has some plus and some minus. For example, if a model has dual camera support then the pre out Voltage is 2V.

I am interested in picking one with high volt pre out (3 ); speaker out amplified to ~ 50W ; preferably flac support (if not hi res audio); one that has a decent screen (min 6" & max 9" incl dual camera support), not more than 1-2 year old model.

Budget around 400- 600 USD (since I am trying to source from US), can stretch a bit more.
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Old 24th August 2018, 23:55   #13703
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by cs_rajesh View Post
Friends, I am looking for a double din headunit that supports un-distorted voltage close to 5V pre-out on a decent price. I understand that a high voltage pre-out can provide good quality audio signals with no amplifiers and fill the sound for a small cabin easily, or, provide good signal to assist the amplifier's performance, if amplifier is present.
Hold on!
The part in bold is FALSE. Pre out voltages have nothing to do with the speaker level output of a head unit
The part following it is true. A pre out with higher voltages will give a cleaner signal to an amp, if an external amp is present
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Old 25th August 2018, 00:17   #13704
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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I have been using a Jabra Tour for 4 years plus and it is a pure no-nonsense buy. Clip it on the driver sun visor, pair to the phone and use; clear transmission and reception.

The battery holds for long.

I have a Kenwood 413BT but prefer to use the Jabra.
I am looking for a no nonsense solution. I intend to use it extensively so don't want to worry about charging every now and then. Also, wifey wants to stream music via BT. I am looking for a bt enabled stereo system.

Didn't know about the Jabra Tour. It looks like a good makeshift arrangement for cars without bt.
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Old 25th August 2018, 08:03   #13705
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Hold on!

The part in bold is FALSE. Pre out voltages have nothing to do with the speaker level output of a head unit
Yes thanks, I noted this from R2d2's reply too,and by the way can you suggest headunits with that specification?
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Old 25th August 2018, 09:33   #13706
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Yes thanks, I noted this from R2d2's reply too,and by the way can you suggest headunits with that specification?
Can you tell me what your plan for the rest of the system is? Because 5v vs 2v gives you just a 2dB lower noise floor which is pretty academic unless you're talking about an extremely well damped or high power install
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Old 25th August 2018, 09:42   #13707
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by cs_rajesh View Post
Already checked those brands but each model has some plus and some minus. For example, if a model has dual camera support then the pre out Voltage is 2V. Budget around 400- 600 USD (since I am trying to source from US), can stretch a bit more.
If you're buying in the US select a product using your criteria at Crutchfields.

PS - This is what I have in my car: Pioneer F80BT

Last edited by R2D2 : 25th August 2018 at 09:50. Reason: added PS
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Old 25th August 2018, 12:14   #13708
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Can you tell me what your plan for the rest of the system is? Because 5v vs 2v gives you just a 2dB lower noise floor which is pretty academic unless you're talking about an extremely well damped or high power install
My plan is to connect the RCA out to Audison AP8.9bit, speakers not yet decided. Subwoofer output to Audison AP1D.
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Old 25th August 2018, 12:22   #13709
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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If you're buying in the US select a product using your criteria at Crutchfields.

PS - This is what I have in my car: Pioneer F80BT
Thanks, however, I am unable to purchase from Crutchfields since they would not deliver to a hotel address and would not support credit cards originating from India, hence buying from Amazon.

I have seen several AVIC models of Pioneer & equivalent models in Sony. Even a mechless headunit is cheaper in india than USA and mechanical CD/DVD player built in costs around 600 USD but display resolution is poor. Considering good display resolution, I leaned towards Kenwood Excelon and only the top model has the resolution higher than WVGA or 800 x 480 pixels and this model is way above budget. Alpine models are too costly but have just WVGA display.

Last edited by cs_rajesh : 25th August 2018 at 12:23.
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Old 25th August 2018, 15:54   #13710
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Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Thanks, however, I am unable to purchase from Crutchfields since they would not deliver to a hotel address and would not support credit cards originating from India, hence buying from Amazon.
Yes, merchants will not deliver to hotel addresses due to the issue of signatures for the parcel.

What I was suggesting is to narrow down to a list of 1-3 models that you further refine and finally decide on one. You can purchase it online or from a local retailer. Alternative is to have your friend/relative purchase it for you.

Purchasing NA market specific electronics in the US is a bit dicey. Other than the warranty support, one more thing you need to be aware of is FM/AM radio frequencies and frequency "steps" are different in the US and EU/Asia. So make sure you get one with EU frequency compatibility switching for use in India. If it is a navigation receiver you will get only NA maps but may be able to buy extra maps for Asia. Please check with the retailer before purchase.

Quote:
I have seen several AVIC models of Pioneer & equivalent models in Sony. Even a mechless headunit is cheaper in india than USA and mechanical CD/DVD player built in costs around 600 USD but display resolution is poor. Considering good display resolution, I leaned towards Kenwood Excelon and only the top model has the resolution higher than WVGA or 800 x 480 pixels and this model is way above budget. Alpine models are too costly but have just WVGA display.
I don't think there's going to be a match for a hi res screen + other features unless you up the budget.

Last edited by R2D2 : 25th August 2018 at 15:59.
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