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Originally Posted by Epic Now I am just wondering.............. If there is a Pioneer head unit i.e. 8850 & 8650 available in the market and that too for less than 10k, why is everyone on the forum recommending headunits like the the Pioneer P880, Alpine 9887, etc which cost a whooping 20k+ ?? |
im pretty sure its a combination of this factor mentioned in this quote here
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P80RS, Alpine etc have far better sound quality than 8650, 8850 etc
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combined with the fact that those P80RS and 9887 all have three way crossovers plus multiband EQ as well as T/A on
all channels hence can give you far more adjustability - as well as features like 24 bit burr brown Dacs which are proven to be sonically superior to most conventional lesser dac chips plus these higher end headunits have auto-setup capability like the alpine with its imprint facility which gives you the audyssey multEQxt which is normally found on higher end home theater receivers - i dont think that those normal headunits will give you all of those facilities but will give you a limited selection from those .... whereas the higher end ones will be kind of a jack of all trades to be a master of sound quality
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Is HU Time Alignment a myth/marketing gimmick ?
How can it automatically estimates the delay from each speaker to the listening position and adjusts the time alignment accordingly ? Is it having any AI ? |
at the end of the day - you need to understand the underlying reason behind why T/A is necessary to actually understand it - you have different speakers playing different band of frequencies of the sound spectrum and each one of these speakers is placed at strategic spots in your vehicle .... the problem is that space concerns and space availability as well as convenience dictate these locations instead of a requirement of sonic accuracy and excellence. At home you can have a sweet spot created in perfect equilateral triangles but in a car the steering wheel is on one side and hence the driver is on one side and a passenger on the other - neither sitting in a sweet spot that gives you perfect soundstaging or imaging and also tonality becomes an issue because you hear one side louder or closer to you hence you need to counter this
the way this is achieved is generally to make your ears believe that all those sounds you hear are arriving to your ears at the time that the producer of the content intended them to arrive so you need to manipulate these sounds and their arrival times
music is not a sine wave but is made up of multiple sine waves that occur at differing frequencies and even different instruments playing the same frequencies at the same time. we know that if a particular frequency encounters the same identical frequency out of phase it will cancel - but lots of times you need these to all be played so that the convincing and realistic sound you hear before you can unfold in a convincing manner - so the idea is to make the sound from all these speaker placed in different locations seem like they all arrive to your ears at the same time - T/A when applied manually is just a matter of measuring path lengths between speaker drivers and applying a delay to the shorter pathlength so it seems like it is longer but when you know what you are doing entering in those figures is easily achievable hence the compensating process is comparatively easy
for the software to do the autosetup the manner it is able to analyze all of this is because it has a predetermined frequency curve it strives to achieve - then when you place the microphone in the locations requested by the instructions the microphone uses the resultant measured curve to compare and then decide how best to adjust the EQ as well as time delays as well as the crossover point (in the 9887) so all of those adjustments will eventually get you close to that target curve as you can physically get without having the complexity of you trying to do all those adjustments manually yourself and without further measurement
it is easier for electronic equipment to measure these curves etc because your hearing is not always as good a tool of measurement as you would like to think it is for example you wouldnt know whether a kick drum was playing a note that had a frequency centred at 60hz or 600hz (exaggeration for effect) because you dont really know how to measure those just by listening but a microphone of adequate quality linked to decent software would do so reliably
most of the time .... the same goes for the T/A functionality ie you cant hear if a tweeter is 50 cm away from you or 80cm or if the mid is 120cm away from you in the kick panel but the microphone together with the software can measure it reasonably reliably and then apply the necessary adjustments toward the ideal response required
so no .... it definitely is not a marketing gimmick and it is a useful tool for those seeking perfection and absolute fidelity .... the only drawback is its affordability and you will only be restricted by what you can afford
for those seeking absolute perfection who have unlimited and very deep pockets the ideal situation is to have a minimalist pure head unit with no processing functionality which is instead simply and minimally put together out of expensive components that are the ultimate "bits and bobs" you can use to get the purest signal out of your media content and then to actually have an outboard processor that has very complex and widely varied functionality so you can adjust for a wide variety of equipment in a list of different vehicles just as wide in choice - but if your pockets dont extend that deep then one of these higher end headunits that build in this functionality gives you an acceptable compromise when carefully matched with ancillary equipment ie amplifiers that can supplement the limited processing functionality and speakers that can work in the required frequency ranges - whilst for the guys who dont have much affordability at all im afraid you are stuck with imagining what could have been with cheapish entry level head units that dont have most of this functionality and are basically capable of just making a bit of noise that overrides the engine noise and road rumble/tyre noise during a journey which more or less barely resembles music but that will mostly be lacking in trying to achieve believable and convincing sound quality in terms of proper stereo and soundstaging and imaging as well as allowing you to hear the inherent tonality and timbre of each instrument as a separate and individual component of the music you are listening to whilst still retaining the coherence of each individual instrument to the final tune you hear
all of the above is just my personal reasoning and thinking, and people are free to disagree, but to be honest when you hear the difference it makes when properly set up you will wonder how you managed to live without it all this time - so when your installer recommends one of these units its not just to make an extra profit for his pocket - its also to allow you to experience your treasured music at its best that your equipment choice can allow