[aseem]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Actually IMO, it's pioneer that overdo the features on their HU's making them almost impossible for parents to use. Especially the higher end ones are insane with their setting parameters.

Sam, this one I am telling from actual experience. I have never read a manual before for any mobile phone/computer equipment/pda/Head Unit, however I was completely clueless with the 9833 I played with. I was trying to turn of the internal amp, and it took me a lot of time to figure it out.... I dont even want to mention the time it took to figure out "Aux" in the 9833. Finally I decided its best to read the manual, as the Alpine imo have so many features that its best to read than to do practical R&D.

So in a way I was glad that I bought the Sony 8800 as its easy to use. I had gone to Bangalore just after installing my HU, and when I came back, I saw my dad easily using the remote of the Sony and changing settings etc. I am sure he wouldnt have been able to much with the 9833 than to just change the radio channels and increase the volume

However this takes nothing away from Alpine, as these systems give you quality sound and features. It shows you the "rate" and which the MP3 has been burnt etc. So its a very intelligent HU in my opinion. But I like the KISS factor of my Sony HU, and the sound too

[Sam Kapasi]

I guess you guys are right. Upon direct comparison with units from Sony and Kenwood, an alpine is definitely more complicated. I guess they're not aiming at "average joe" listeners. What else can it be?

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Actually IMO, it's pioneer that overdo the features on their HU's making them almost impossible for parents to use. Especially the higher end ones are insane with their setting parameters.

I agree...eve with the Pioneer..7750 which is more like a middle of the road model..my wife is always confused abt the correct way to use the rotary commander...
The features are very good though...equaliser, sub control, battery voltage meter, artist/bitrate/title etcs in mp3, an easily scrollable mp3 listing, steering mounted remote, different display settings including the old fashioned needle and dash mockery (for o/p)...just goes on...

[navin]

actually Alpines are complicated becuae the use 2 few buttons and each button is designated to perform difference tasks depending on the mode. Alpines are complicated (just ask my wife) but once they are set they are a snap to use as the primary button are larger and you can keep you eyes on the road... .

[Autophile]

Navin this is becoming endless....sometimes in our discussions headroom comes into play, sometimes power.

Its simple.

take a 100 watts amplifier and play it at 25 watts and then 50 watts
at the following locations.

1. in your garden.

2. in you listening room.

3. in your car.

You need more power than double to percieve loudness in first case than in second and third.

Like I have said before the law of distance and volume of air to be filled is applicable besides power, sensitivity of driver, impedance etc...etc..

Try achieving 140dB of spl in your room at the listening position with single 12" Subwoofer running at 1000Watts RMS. Its hard. Where as in car its piece of cake.

In case of home its the same driver same amplifer, same ears but greater distance and more volume. Thats what i was talking about besides ground loops and ambient noise.

And sam you can listen to stereo image and soundstage in our cars. They exist on our cars dashboard and speakers disappear.

[Autophile]

And as far as home audio is concerned i have used and listened the a lot of equipment over the period of last 7 years in my Hi-Fi. Everything from point source horn loaded drivers with exotic alnico magnets to Class A Monoblocks.

Some of noticable ones are:

Loudspeakers :

Tannoy Westminster Royal HE
Tannoy Canterbury HE
Tannoy Dimension TD12
Tannoy Kingdom 12
Tannoy System 215 II
Dynaudio M1.5
B&W Matrix 801

Subwoofers :

Velodyne HGS & DD18

Amplifiers:

ASR Emitter II with battery
Krell 400Cx
Krell 350MCx
Krell KAV-250
Krell KAV-2250
Krell KAV-400Xi
Bryston 7BSST
McIntosh MC252
McIntosh MC501
Cinepro IK2 SE


Digital Players :

Krell SACD standard

Besides this we have listened to a variety of equipment from different manufacturers.

Today we are the believers of first order crossovers, class A amplification, Point source driver configuration, paper as driver material.

Same belief we are trying to put in car audio. Where we have Tube Amplifiers, Class A Amplifiers, The amplifers using exotic stuff like ELNA capacitors, Sanken and Burr Brown output stages.

Paper cone midbass and bass drivers and sweet silk tweeters and the subwoofers which are as fast as drum skin.

These are the things which have been craved for and appreciated in high end home audio and now its time for car audio.

As these days we tend to spend more time in car than home and there are no interferring factor to the choice of music and volume. We should have better equipment.

[navin]

you are comparing boundary reinforecement and SPL while I am talking about the sensitivity of the human ear (in a car v/s i a home). a doublling of power (including headroom etc...) would be percieved the same in a garden, home or car. that you get more direct sound and early reflections in a car does not change that.

if a speaker is giving me 78db/1W at 4m in my home and i double the power going into it it will give me 81db at 4m. that 3db increase will be just as heard if a comparable speaker is giving 88db/1m in a car and doubling the power increases the SPL to 91db.

[navin]

that is a lot of equipment in 7 years. I have heard some of the same incl the Bryston and Westminsiter along with Rowland Research etc...

BTW did you ever get a chance to play with the Eumig cassette decks in the late 70s and early 80s.

I got my 1st radio/spool deck about 1969-70 and built my first amp and speakers around 1976. Somewhere between those days and today i worked (part time) at a now defunct radio station in NYC, Record Plant, Electric Ladyland, and Power Station studios and sold home audio equipment at Innovative Audio in Brooklyn and Sound by Singer in Manhattan. All these jobs were part time to help pay my way through college. At the studios I did the dirty work which included making coffee and rolling cigarettes, etc.. but got the chance to meet Pat Benetar and Jackson Browne (I dont think they remember me, in fact I am quite sure they dont remember any scrawny indian boy).

[Autophile]

Yes because we don't play the speakers in free space or listen to them in anaechoic chambers everyday.

[navin]

No we dont that is why we are discussing the ears sensitivity to increase in power in a home v/s car

[Autophile]

Thats what, early reflection do affect loudness. Much more in a small area than in bigger area. Because in smaller area they arrive at our ears sooner as compared to larger areas.

[navin]

so are you saying that doubling the amplifier power increases the percived sound the speaker produces by more than 3db in a car and/or by less than 3db in garden?

[Autophile]

Navin, sure you are much elder than me and you were there much earlier than me towards the Audio infancy.

[Autophile]

I am not denying the 3dB gain in either case...I am saying that the inverse square law of loudness comes into play with the distance, and percieved loudness depends on distance majorly...Distance of ears from the sound source...

[navin]

Audio's (as we know it) infancy was in the early 1930s. I am not that old!