Very technical Infinity Ref 5010cs review

navin · 14th October 2005, 14:31

No you did not miss that. I forgot to mention it. sorry.
the original -3db points were about 3900Hz and 10,500Hz for the woofer and tweeter. the original -6db points were 4900Hz and 6300Hz respectively. I have only modified the woofer crossover becuase I wanted to kill that peakyness so the new -3db and -6db points for hte woofer are 3300Hz and 5600Hz.

Actually I dont worry too much about these becuase I am first looking at the summed power response, impedance curve and freq. response. The only object to consider the individual cruves is to make sure that the tweeter XO will not damage the tweeter and the woofer XO is adequate to compensate for any nasties from the break up nodes if any.

The new XO also has a nicer impedance curve.

Vivekphadnis · 14th October 2005, 15:29

That is nice. I wonder if I should try to replace the Bennic caps on my JBLs and use polyester/polypropylene. I am not exactly a big fan of electrolytic caps.

navin · 14th October 2005, 15:33

Vivek, I just emailed JK the crossover photo. He'll put it up shortly. He works fast. IN a speaker's XO I would change bipolar to poly anyday.

jkdas · 14th October 2005, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

Vivek, I just emailed JK the crossover photo. He'll put it up shortly. He works fast. IN a speaker's XO I would change bipolar to poly anyday.

i sure do. ther my frnd

Vivekphadnis · 14th October 2005, 15:40

Great.

Where did you get the poly caps from?

navin · 14th October 2005, 15:45

CTR. I have a stock of these at all times. My lab is equipped with a DSO, etc.... so I cna use it when I need it.

JK thanks for the photo job. I hope you reduced the size. I sent you something like 11.1MB.

The coils are not as neat as the originals. BTW I'm guessing (strong hunch) JBL's Perfect series of components use perfect lay inductors.

BTW you will notice I use 4.7uf for the woofer instead of the 3.3uf I mentioned earlier. This si because I ran the woofer using a small Pio 412 amp via the crossover and did not like the sound in a small box (about the size of you CCTB). so I decided to use 4.7uf instead. OK?

Vivekphadnis · 14th October 2005, 15:59

Neat job, Navin. So this setup stays or will there be more changes?

navin · 14th October 2005, 16:01

You see the space above the .33uf cap and 2ohm/20% resistor. That might be used soon! :-)

Vivekphadnis · 14th October 2005, 16:19

What do you plan to do with that space?

navin · 14th October 2005, 16:27

Oh I dont know. I gotta do listening first. I dont add anything unless absolutely required. Most probably I will build a new PCB and build as big an inductor I can fit in the box using the above space for the poly caps.

Autophile · 15th October 2005, 10:20

Navin, thanks for the nice anatomy of the speaker...now waiting for your listening test...Tell us how they perform. And what is the difference between the sound of stock set and the modded one.

navin · 15th October 2005, 10:45

I wish JB, I could have done what you requested. In a PM to Gunbir I had mentioned that the reason I am modding the XO based on LEAP/LMS is that I only get my wife's car 1/2 day on saturday. She finds my car too big to drive so is unwilling to switch.

Hence I figured I would would mod the XO and do my listening with the modded XO. If I lay my hands on a regular XO iin the coming week I can do a XO comparision next Saturday/Sunday.

So sorry there will be no ABX.

I do this is what spare time i got (very little with my day jobs and family life).

Besides this review is not a professional review it is a DIY-tear-it-up reivew wanting to show that with a little bit of soldering one can improve a speaker. I am a DIY evangilist. Often a little it of DIY can make some really significant improvements to audio equipment.

navin · 15th October 2005, 12:00

Ok today I am installing the speaker with the modified XOs (the only change being the caps).

When I get some time I'll get a series XO design for the speaker. Then I intend to build a series XO and compare the parallel XO with the series XO. Dont hold your breath though. Time is something that is in short supply. Expect 2 weeks before the series Xo is done.

These speakers come with a fantastic arry of install options. Wow!

navin · 15th October 2005, 20:12

I have 1st impressions of the 5010cs already. Very laid back. I think Infinity's 10uf cap might have been right after all. will replace this cap with 10uf at 1st available opportunity and report.

i got photos but will have to wait till monday to send them to JK Das. he will post them. Some are interesting. esp the 4 x 6" fiberglass deck and the custom grill. I got a Blau velocity 504 bridged running the Infinity and a Blau 450 running the 4x 6" subs and rear 4" comps.

I tried the amps the other way around but the Velocity although older is smoother than the 450. Sometimes companies shoot them selves in the foot and discontiue making good products.

Today i would recommend an Alpine 450 5 channel amp for this application.

navin · 17th October 2005, 16:24

hey guys, i am sorry to say that I have been uning the wrong terminology. this has confused atleast some of you.

the original capacitors in the infinity crossover was a polarised electrolytic capacitors. I wrongly called them a bipolar. I have replaced them with poly non-polarisied capacitors.

I hope this clears things. Sorry for the misunderstanding. And thanks Sam for correcting me.

To quote Sam
"There are generally two types of capacitors: polarized and bipolar. Polarized capacitors have a positive and a negative terminal; bipolar capacitors don't. In polarized capacitors the insulator between the plates is usually an electrolyte; hence the name electrolytic capacitors"

the word bipolar had me thinking "2 poles" hence polarised + and -. Henceforth i intend to use ONLY polarised and nonpolarised.

the caps shown are the ones I used to replace the original caps.

14th October 2005, 14:31	#16
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	No you did not miss that. I forgot to mention it. sorry. the original -3db points were about 3900Hz and 10,500Hz for the woofer and tweeter. the original -6db points were 4900Hz and 6300Hz respectively. I have only modified the woofer crossover becuase I wanted to kill that peakyness so the new -3db and -6db points for hte woofer are 3300Hz and 5600Hz. Actually I dont worry too much about these becuase I am first looking at the summed power response, impedance curve and freq. response. The only object to consider the individual cruves is to make sure that the tweeter XO will not damage the tweeter and the woofer XO is adequate to compensate for any nasties from the break up nodes if any. The new XO also has a nicer impedance curve.
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 15:29	#17
Vivekphadnis BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 690 Thanked: 2 Times	That is nice. I wonder if I should try to replace the Bennic caps on my JBLs and use polyester/polypropylene. I am not exactly a big fan of electrolytic caps.
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 15:33	#18
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	Vivek, I just emailed JK the crossover photo. He'll put it up shortly. He works fast. IN a speaker's XO I would change bipolar to poly anyday.
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 15:40	#20
Vivekphadnis BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 690 Thanked: 2 Times	Great. Where did you get the poly caps from?
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 15:45	#21
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	CTR. I have a stock of these at all times. My lab is equipped with a DSO, etc.... so I cna use it when I need it. JK thanks for the photo job. I hope you reduced the size. I sent you something like 11.1MB. The coils are not as neat as the originals. BTW I'm guessing (strong hunch) JBL's Perfect series of components use perfect lay inductors. BTW you will notice I use 4.7uf for the woofer instead of the 3.3uf I mentioned earlier. This si because I ran the woofer using a small Pio 412 amp via the crossover and did not like the sound in a small box (about the size of you CCTB). so I decided to use 4.7uf instead. OK? Last edited by navin : 14th October 2005 at 15:50.
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 15:59	#22
Vivekphadnis BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 690 Thanked: 2 Times	Neat job, Navin. So this setup stays or will there be more changes?
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 16:01	#23
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	You see the space above the .33uf cap and 2ohm/20% resistor. That might be used soon! :-)
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 16:19	#24
Vivekphadnis BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 690 Thanked: 2 Times	What do you plan to do with that space?
	() Thanks

14th October 2005, 16:27	#25
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	Oh I dont know. I gotta do listening first. I dont add anything unless absolutely required. Most probably I will build a new PCB and build as big an inductor I can fit in the box using the above space for the poly caps.
	() Thanks

15th October 2005, 10:20	#26
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Navin, thanks for the nice anatomy of the speaker...now waiting for your listening test...Tell us how they perform. And what is the difference between the sound of stock set and the modded one.
	() Thanks

15th October 2005, 10:45	#27
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	I wish JB, I could have done what you requested. In a PM to Gunbir I had mentioned that the reason I am modding the XO based on LEAP/LMS is that I only get my wife's car 1/2 day on saturday. She finds my car too big to drive so is unwilling to switch. Hence I figured I would would mod the XO and do my listening with the modded XO. If I lay my hands on a regular XO iin the coming week I can do a XO comparision next Saturday/Sunday. So sorry there will be no ABX. I do this is what spare time i got (very little with my day jobs and family life). Besides this review is not a professional review it is a DIY-tear-it-up reivew wanting to show that with a little bit of soldering one can improve a speaker. I am a DIY evangilist. Often a little it of DIY can make some really significant improvements to audio equipment.
	() Thanks

15th October 2005, 12:00	#28
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	Ok today I am installing the speaker with the modified XOs (the only change being the caps). When I get some time I'll get a series XO design for the speaker. Then I intend to build a series XO and compare the parallel XO with the series XO. Dont hold your breath though. Time is something that is in short supply. Expect 2 weeks before the series Xo is done. These speakers come with a fantastic arry of install options. Wow!
	() Thanks

15th October 2005, 20:12	#29
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	I have 1st impressions of the 5010cs already. Very laid back. I think Infinity's 10uf cap might have been right after all. will replace this cap with 10uf at 1st available opportunity and report. i got photos but will have to wait till monday to send them to JK Das. he will post them. Some are interesting. esp the 4 x 6" fiberglass deck and the custom grill. I got a Blau velocity 504 bridged running the Infinity and a Blau 450 running the 4x 6" subs and rear 4" comps. I tried the amps the other way around but the Velocity although older is smoother than the 450. Sometimes companies shoot them selves in the foot and discontiue making good products. Today i would recommend an Alpine 450 5 channel amp for this application.
	() Thanks

17th October 2005, 16:24	#30
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	hey guys, i am sorry to say that I have been uning the wrong terminology. this has confused atleast some of you. the original capacitors in the infinity crossover was a polarised electrolytic capacitors. I wrongly called them a bipolar. I have replaced them with poly non-polarisied capacitors. I hope this clears things. Sorry for the misunderstanding. And thanks Sam for correcting me. To quote Sam "There are generally two types of capacitors: polarized and bipolar. Polarized capacitors have a positive and a negative terminal; bipolar capacitors don't. In polarized capacitors the insulator between the plates is usually an electrolyte; hence the name electrolytic capacitors" the word bipolar had me thinking "2 poles" hence polarised + and -. Henceforth i intend to use ONLY polarised and nonpolarised. the caps shown are the ones I used to replace the original caps. Last edited by navin : 17th October 2005 at 16:27.
	() Thanks