[thelord]

@better4worse
Good to see that things are moving along in a positive way. I am actually surprised that you got the DD comps in exchange so easily. Driven deserves some praise if they listened to your problem and offered an exchange. Not many sound outlets will do that.

And yes, we envy you Delhi folks as you have some really nice people who are into Audio by passion. Gunbir's opinions are a joy to read. I wish he becomes more active here.

And finally coming to the Mid-bass issue, I know we can't stop you from taking your own time and analysis before deciding if an amp is required or not. But, from my experience, however little it is, I can tell you that without any amp, the front components cannot play even to half their potential.

Please do keep sharing your findings, it's a learning for all us bhpians. Cheers!

[sudhi_des]

@better4worse

I am also planning for ICE in my Punto active. I have Pioneer DEH-5050UB from my old car. My budget is very limited. Either i can go for all 4 composite or front component+damping.

I think your experience will help me to decide where to go. My requirement from ICE are almost same like you

[better4worse]

Originally Posted by thelord

@better4worse
Good to see that things are moving along in a positive way. I am actually surprised that you got the DD comps in exchange so easily. Driven deserves some praise if they listened to your problem and offered an exchange. Not many sound outlets will do that.

Yes absolutely! 'Driven' deserves credit for this (both Subhan & Rana) as well, found them to be responsive and open to customer feedback! I think you've gotta give credit where and when its due. Driven happens to be my second experience with serious installers after Gyro (Abhimanyu/Manan) and I must admit on both occasions there has been a tight situation which could have led to a major disappointment in terms of customer experience. I must admit on both occasions I have had the installer ('Gyro' and this time 'Driven') live upto to the expectations and all the good word / recommendations one gets to hear about them on this forum.

So would I call myself out-right lucky in such transactions ? considering I too have read some horror stories on this very forum itself. Let me share some background on this particular interaction with Driven and I'll leave it to you folks to decide !

As for this very transaction at 'Driven', it wasn't like I landed at 'Driven' one fine day and ordered a pair of rainbow titans to be installed in my punto asap! The rainbow titans were a strong recommendation from almost anyone (installers & end users) with whom I discussed sub 10K front components. Considering Gyro no longer operates, I was guided to Driven (had to choose between Driven and Autopsyche). I approached Driven for a chat, I told folks that I'd like to audition the titans or other brands if possible (DD's being the other option), considering I hadn't heard either. So we decided to meet at a later date and time when they could arrange for an audition.

I duly reached the place after confirming but unfortunately the car to be auditioned still had stuff getting installed and wasn't quite ready and would have taken more than a couple of hrs before it was ready for an audition. I just didnt have time enough to wait for the install to get done, hence left driven only to return again some other day.

I was quite keen to experience the front components, but wanted to sure of what I was buying, so was assured by Driven folks, that if I didnt like them they would replace them. They asked me if I was interested in an amplifier to go with it and I told them straight up 'Nope ! not right now!' as I want to take one step at a time, learn some here. They offered to damp the front two doors as well, I told them 'Later..maybe, if I feel the need for it i.e. after experiencing titans or getting an amplifier". I think the general consensus in the shop even before we started out was that 8016 is pretty good HU to start with.

So we went ahead with the installs for titans and once done, I was tad surprised at not being able experience mid bass on the front components even after hearing songs from different genre and trying out different settings. To be honest, the first thing I did was question my own understanding of 8016 and asked folks at Driven to tune it to their satisfaction to show some mid bass response. Well they tried and nothing changed, so with the case as it was I told them I wasn't too pleased with the end result, to which there were suggestions that I try damping, add an amplifier, better still to start by giving the titans some 10-15 hrs of music i.e. to break-in the speakers and expect the midbass improves.

So I took his advice seriously without fussing over it, paid up the full amount before leaving the shop. < while uncomfortable, it was a little show of faith, if nothing more...>. I waited over 2 weeks, trying out various settings to see if matters have improved, in this very period I approached folks on forum for prior experience/advice on rainbows, which is exactly when I came in contact with Gunbir who actually suggested I open a thread to track this problem properly and take it to some resolution.
<The rest of the details are here on this very thread.>

On my part, I was always very clear on the approach, i.e. to ask for help to find my kinda sound (in this case it was specific to missing mid bass), it wasn't to seek an outright replacement of X product without a proper try but to put in the best available effort to see if we can objectively identify the root cause of the problem and make things work. I'm glad Gunbir was involved from the beginning and was very proactive, I am absolutely sure his presence, subject matter expertise and objectivity in understanding my requirement also played a huge role in the way things eventually shaped. Additionally, I'd like to believe the fact that I gave them, 'Driven' a fair chance to make it work, also played a role in some way i.e. from my first visit to the last one to rectify stuff on this particular buy.

Originally Posted by thelord

And finally coming to the Mid-bass issue, I know we can't stop you from taking your own time and analysis before deciding if an amp is required or not. But, from my experience, however little it is, I can tell you that without any amp, the front components cannot play even to half their potential.

I don't have problems accepting the fact that the 'right' amplifier would only enhance my setup further and is the next logical step, in-fact I am open to the idea auditioning some, a few I have already had a sound check on (purely incidental two amps/setups at extreme ends...I've heard a Masconi + with ID3 Chameleon +ID sub + stock Punto HU setup and then I heard old 'Titans' + (the much hailed) kenwood 8401 + 2008/2009 kenny HU at the other end of the spectrum.) While the Masconi in the said combo sounded real sweet, I was surprised as the kenwood 8401 did not impress me as much on various levels, even though everybody raves about it as real super beginners amp. (there could have been reasons for that, state of tune, age of equipment, different car et all or the fact that I was coming from the 'Masconi sound' I was bound to be disappointed !)

The point I'm trying to make is that getting the money to spend and to some extent auditioning a couple of amps is probably the easy bit. But how do I decide what is the right amplifier to invest in ? I don't think its easy for a 'noob' (like me) to develop a very good understanding of amplifiers overnight and then be able to articulate his requirement given his current setup & direction of sound he wants to pursue, judge the amplifiers and eventually make the right call.

I'm reading up old threads on the forum, to develop a PoV on the subject of amplifiers but I'm sure it gonna take sometime. If there is a ready Primer or Bible to all this... please do share ! I know that its a 'sound thing' and if you hear it on the street and you like it..you just like it...simple! But I think I'd be happier if I learnt stuff about amplifiers/subs and put some structure into my decision making before I buy an amplifier next.

Originally Posted by sudhi_des

@better4worse

I am also planning for ICE in my Punto active. I have Pioneer DEH-5050UB from my old car. My budget is very limited. Either i can go for all 4 composite or front component+damping.

I think your experience will help me to decide where to go. My requirement from ICE are almost same like you

Glad, If anything that I've shared on this thread helps you in your decision making. I know you won't, but I just wanna reiterate, that I hope people who have or will read this thread, don't make decisions based on binary thoughts such as " Oh! the titans don't work " or " DD's work better " that too in isolation and without a frame of reference.

For your setup, you will again have to start from zero...audition and see what works and what is that you like/fits your budget ! Enjoy the journey !

[SumitBahl]

Originally Posted by better4worse

While the Masconi in the said combo sounded real sweet, I was surprised as the kenwood 8401 did not impress me as much on various levels, even though everybody raves about it as real super beginners amp. (there could have been reasons for that, state of tune, age of equipment, different car et all or the fact that I was coming from the 'Masconi sound' I was bound to be disappointed !)

!

Mosconi and Kenwood are a different league altogether.
Different components in different cars powered by different amps is the major reason.

[ipsanand]

I for myself have the same problem. Have my Alpine 9887 paired with the Rainbow SLC 265s. The setup totally lacks on the midbass. Am blaming my Baleno, and lack of damping, as the culprit. But this thread makes me believe that the speakers are at fault.

Have PMd Gunbir on this - hope he responds.

Regards,
Irwin

[panky12345]

.. gosh! and I was given to understand that Rainbows SLC265 have so much midbass that I need to damp my doors again. (I've damped the doors with 80 mils of damping sheet). I've not auditioned them on my amp as yet.

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by panky12345

.. gosh! and I was given to understand that Rainbows SLC265 have so much midbass that I need to damp my doors again. (I've damped the doors with 80 mils of damping sheet). I've not auditioned them on my amp as yet.

tut-tut those were SLC KICK not normal SLC

[thelord]

Originally Posted by SumitBahl

Mosconi and Kenwood are a different league altogether.
Different components in different cars powered by different amps is the major reason.

Totally Agree. I have had the chance to audition both the One Series and AS Series of Mosconi, and they are indeed very good amps. We auditioned a few tracks from the soundtrack of The Motorcycle Diaries in Sumit's car. The dynamic range these amps can pull off really amazed me. The silences were really silent and music so warm and life-like.

And yes, after that, it's always takes some time for me to get used to my Kenwood amp.

@ipsanand
The SLCs are no slouch when it comes to mid-bass. Try another brand of components with the same setup.

[ipsanand]

Sorry guys a correction. The speakers i have are SLX265 Deluxe, and not the SLCs...

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by ipsanand

Sorry guys a correction. The speakers i have are SLX265 Deluxe, and not the SLCs...

Damp your doors and mid kick will increase noticeably!

[panky12345]

Originally Posted by abhibh

tut-tut those were SLC KICK not normal SLC

Whats the difference? Any info on the MRPs?

[ipsanand]

I can invest in damping, but want to be sure that this will solve the mid-bass issue.

Originally Posted by abhibh

Damp your doors and mid kick will increase noticeably!

[pawanarya]

Glad your problem's resolved. Enjoy the DD's now.

[better4worse]

Originally Posted by ipsanand

I can invest in damping, but want to be sure that this will solve the mid-bass issue.

Don't want to sound all 'Yoda' like considering my limited exposure with ICE, but I had the same dilemma ! Eventually this is the way I thought of it and went ahead with damping, see if it works for you !

If your HU has decent power output and the components can handle them as per design specs, then you should be able to hear mid bass. Damping on its own doesn't do miracles when it comes to mid bass, what it does is if the above is true and there is mid bass coming from the setup, damping will create a proper enclosure for a better sound at the least, it will help improve the overall mid bass experience by atleast 10-20% (which makes the 'kick' noticeable !)

Simply put, if you are experiencing very little or no mid bass on your current HU + Front components, damping is not gonna satisfy you and your're probably not going to be very happy after going through the exercise esp with money spent(2-3 K INR for front 2 doors). But what it will do for you is rule out one probable cause of experiencing low/less mid bass. With damping in place I think you'll be in a better position to judge the mid bass potential and output of your current driver even more so if you plan to try out other components.

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by ipsanand

I can invest in damping, but want to be sure that this will solve the mid-bass issue.

If you have an amplifier driving those Rainbows then damping will help a lot. If you are driving those with HU power then there will be very lil difference.