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I have just been too quick with the comment on the drive train. As fate would have it we just broke our pinion on the Coimbatore- Pollachi vehicle the very next day of my previous post. A curious observation is that this is the third time that the crown and pinion have been replaced on this particular vehicle. The crown and pinion last for an average of 80,000 km and give way. This problem was not observed on the older AL 222 that we ran on the same route nor has it been observed on the more placid Karur vehicles. Is there a design or material flaw that becomes overt on pushing the vehicle to its limits? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_(material)

Thanks to Tata's Sampoorna Seva (Annual Maintenance Contract) it doesn't pinch much to have the part changed but then we had to ground the vehicle for a full 2 days to get it sorted out. An AL would have taken 1\2 a day to be back on road. Now with this service situation prevailing you cannot blame operators for switching back to AL.

I hope Tata does something on an urgent basis to sort out the spare parts availability issue.

TATA - No where to be seen!
The Annual General Body meeting of the Federation of Bus owners Associations of Tamil Nadu was held at Coimbatore on 16.09.2014 and was attended by more than 1000 owners.

Ashok Leyland was the title sponsor of the event. They showcased a 222 chassis and a fully built JANBUS based on a12m chassis.

The issue is - TATA MOTORS Ltd was nowhere to be seen.
Was it a marketing lapse or a purposeful miss?

Hello Dr. Congratulations on your second anniversary.
BTW, how is your oil thickening issues reported earlier? Meanwhile what is the engine oil you are using?have you tried Gulf Dura Max LE 15W40 CI4?

Does 1512 have anti roll bar? I was not aware of it. Neither the leaflets speaks about it.

Does it promises any guaranteed on road time lines?


Tata was present in earlier years. Hope you remember the Karur meeting in 2012 when Transport Minister attended. During the same year, Eicher was also present. Think they are absent intentionally as your federation would have approached them. Other way could be, Tata would have also quoted for title sponsor, so a tug of war, and may be they moved away. But this is unlikely to happen.

Curious to know what happens in the meeting.

1. Is this for only Stage coach owners or does it include Omni buses and does it include the biggies?
2. Do you as bus owner exchange notes on ownership and service issues? Knowing how much you have customised / added Telemetric info on your buses how was the other owners interest in what you have done?
3. Is there any govt representation who participate in the meeting? I mean there could be certain thoughts on what Govt is proposing / Planning that bus owners need to be aware of?

After so much requests and waiting here comes 1512C EX with new soft steering , ergo instrument console, rear/front waveller suspensions & automatic fuel water separator.
The entire chassis is far far ahead from the present day stuff. The driver seat is not above the wheel arc,which was a tradition in lp Tatas far from the yester years. Also the landing portion between the dash board and the bonnet is changed,entirely different from the present LP and LPO models.the bumper positioning is also changed.So we can consider this as a new version.
Image Credit : TATA, THE REAL AUTOMOTIVE KING FB Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/tata...automotiveking

Got these pictures of the Tata Marcopolo Paradiso G7 multi-axle coach, caught testing, from the Tata Motors fan page in FB









There were rumours of this bus, based on the LPO2128RE(?) chassis getting ready for commercial launch, and these pictures come as no surprise. If what's posted is to be believed, this bus is going to be the longest multi-axle bus in India, at 14.7 metres length. The Scania Metrolink-HD top of the line version is 14.5m long.

Image credits to the original uploader

Seems to be a major power train failure. Though I agree that this is a test mule, Tata will have hard time proving customers about the creditability of its chassis. With reduced presence in Ultra Long Intercity routes even in legacy segment, Tata was not in favour of Intercity operators, simply because of durability and high maintenance.
High oil capacity, lower oil change frequency, instant drop in fuel performance when driven at moderate to high speeds, vast difference in fuel performance across the age of engine are some of the factors, because of which Operators don't prefer Tata buses for Intercity routes - here Tata buses means Cummins engines and its linked issues.

But I wish Indian made buses like Marcopolo should give tough competition to the biggies, and make them run out of market.

I don't think it as a power train failure as the engine hood(on the rear) is closed and only the tag axle tyres are removed. The propeller shaft is connected to the main drive axle but not tag axle.

I guess there must be some issue with the tag axle as the tag axle in this bus is a steerable one.

Even I wish the same, these buses should at least give a tough competition for the established global players like volvo and scania.

Pardon my ignorance, but will it not be easier for the rear engine bus to drive the rear most axle (tag axle according to you)?
Though I believe that it may be a powertrain failure as the vehicle is jacked up from all sides and an inspection stretcher is also seen.

I Guessed it as a power train failure by looking at the jacks all around and trolley for removing the engine / GB.

But incidentally same coach is reported for tag axle failure and is resting in ASA.

But the advantage of tag axle like steering option, better tyre mileage will not be there.
Or do you want the single tyre axle to be powered?

Could you elaborate a bit more on issues arising in Cummins engine? TM always marketed it as a major improvement over the 697. Do the new ISBs also have problems? How do you compare the Cummins with Hino/H series? From what I know, the Hino-equipped ALs are more fuel efficient. Is it true? What is the FE difference? What about other things like engine life, reliability, spares, etc.?

The issues I referred was certain generic issues and few specific issues on few variants in Cummins.

The initial BS3(supplied under J1) and regular engines(after BS3 implementation pan India) had common issues of oil thickening and high oil consumption (over and above of lower oil KMPL). Even our forum member Dr.Madhu's 1512 buses had this issues. Almost the entire lot of J1 buses had oil thickening and the worst was RE buses. There were cases of oil thickening to the extend that each time oil needs to flushed as it had thickened like grease.

Generic one's was higher oil capacity (14L aganist 10.5L of H engines), lower oil change intervals(it was only 9k kms for city duty cycle till recently and this is now improved to 20k kms with CI4 - comparatively H series is at 80k kms). When AL was claiming lowest oil KMPL in Industry TML had to adjust few major customers by compensating with oil.
Other issues overheard from few customers were drop in fuel performance over range of speed and life of engine.

H engines predominately have the lowest oil KMPL and they have very nicely graduated from original 114hp to 200hp with same Bore and stroke (with some major changes in the block), without any panic engine failures. Also their common rail engines are more smoother and silent in comparison to Cummins.

With respect to life, some STU's have reported of having higher block life in comparison to Cummins.

Otherwise from 2011 new 6BT BS3's are available with 4 Valves/cylinder(this had oil thickening issues) as against 2 valves/cylinder of H engines and wrt IsBE (both BS3 and BS4) I have not heard any major failures.

Ofcourse Cummins are much superior than 697(still power steering is belt driven in some of 697 powered chassis like 1613BS4) but nothing near to segment leader or far superior than H engines, atleast as of now.

Though its better not to disclose absolute number, fuel performance is perceived as a brand pillar of AL. Right now even the 160hp inline engines are countering 135hp rotary engines of Cummins. Its to be noted that technically IL pumps (mechanical pumps) have higher fuel pilferage than rotary pumps.
Boss with 120hp IL engine is another example. They are reported matching fuel performance with BB Common rail engines and 497 electronic rotary engines.

With IsBE and Neptune are going to be future, this will be a wait and watch. Also since H engines are doing its duty pretty well, IMHO its actually postponing the launch of Neptune in existing range of products. Until otherwise there is a requirement above 225hp, Neptune engines are a kind of forced insertion into current AL engine portfolio as H engines are have a comfortable B10 life and enough power options.

1.Newer generation Tata Marcopolo Starbuses.
2. Old generation Tata 1512 c on one of the toughest routes, New Delhi to Leh.

Not sure if this is the right thread to post this.

On Saturday (12.12.2015), enroute to Mumbai, at Vashi Toll Plaza, saw this bus.

Apart from an eye catching yellow colour, the following features stood out -

1. Left hand drive - obviously not meant for Indian roads

2. A warning sign - Arabic / Urdu? Definitely meant for export?

3. Auxiliary engine on the left side

4. Unusual window panes - more like those on sleeper coaches on inter city travel buses.

It looked like coaches used for airport transfer.

Just sharing for those are likely to be interested....

Well this bus might be a export to Dubai. since dubai is a major market for Tata buses. also i can see the bus using headlights of Tata Prima.