[directinjection]

Originally Posted by julupani

With Tata Cummins already making the 8.9L ISLe and looking to make the 11L ISMe engines in India

Has Tata Cummins started making them? They were only produced by Cummins India earlier.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Has Tata Cummins started making them? They were only produced by Cummins India earlier.

According to my news, this has happened already. And it is likely that in a few years time, so will the ISMe engines. This is primarily keeping in mind the export potential of the Prima. As the Tata Daewoo plant in Korea has limited capacity, Tata wants to build most of the export destined Primas here in India. It will only be the 450hp+ ISX15 engines that will be imported, probably from China or USA.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by julupani

According to my news, this has happened already. And it is likely that in a few years time, so will the ISMe engines. This is primarily keeping in mind the export potential of the Prima. As the Tata Daewoo plant in Korea has limited capacity, Tata wants to build most of the export destined Primas here in India. It will only be the 450hp+ ISX15 engines that will be imported, probably from China or USA.

Interestingly, Tata has also developed in collaboration with AVL a 5 litre four cylinder CRDI engine for its new ICV range. If another 2 cylinders are added, you get a modern, 7.5 litre engine which is your own. It will be interesting to see how that will be positioned.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Interestingly, Tata has also developed in collaboration with AVL a 5 litre four cylinder CRDI engine for its new ICV range. If another 2 cylinders are added, you get a modern, 7.5 litre engine which is your own. It will be interesting to see how that will be positioned.

The same 5L engine also has a 3L variants, and I think there were also supposed to be a couple of 6-cylinder variants based on the same platform as well. These engines are likely to replace the present 697 and 497 engines in the future. There was also talk of Tata Daewoo too developing engines, by modernizing their existing engines. In Korea, the Prima is available with Daewoo, Cummins and FPT Cursor engines. So it seems like Tata will be offering a variety of engines on their trucks, allowing the customer to make the choice.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by julupani

The same 5L engine also has a 3L variants, and I think there were also supposed to be a couple of 6-cylinder variants based on the same platform as well. These engines are likely to replace the present 697 and 497 engines in the future. There was also talk of Tata Daewoo too developing engines, by modernizing their existing engines. In Korea, the Prima is available with Daewoo, Cummins and FPT Cursor engines. So it seems like Tata will be offering a variety of engines on their trucks, allowing the customer to make the choice.

I have seen both 3L and 5L engines. I wouldn't call them two versions of the same engine given that their blocks and dimensions are completely different. The Daewoo engine is basically a derivative of MAN engine if I remember correctly. Offering variety can be good as well as bad given the logistical challenges involved in offering variety.

If 6 cylinder version is also offered, Tata might face issues with Cummins over the future of B 5.9 and ISB 6.7.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by directinjection

I have seen both 3L and 5L engines. I wouldn't call them two versions of the same engine given that their blocks and dimensions are completely different. The Daewoo engine is basically a derivative of MAN engine if I remember correctly. Offering variety can be good as well as bad given the logistical challenges involved in offering variety.

If 6 cylinder version is also offered, Tata might face issues with Cummins over the future of B 5.9 and ISB 6.7.

Well, I called them two versions like the 497 and 497SP are two versions or the Cummins ISF2.8 and ISF3.8 are two versions of the same engine.

Why would they have issues with Cummins in future?? BTW I dont see the Cummins B5.9 continuing for a lot longer. I am sure by 2016/17 the B5.9 will finally end its production life. Among logistical challenges, there really wont be any, since the Tata Cummins factory is attached to the Tata Motors factory, and Tata also provides a lot of the components that make the Cummins engines in India.

Anyway, I think we are moving away from Leyland to Tata. We can continue this on another thread.

[Autokrat]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Is it possible that the Neptune engine is nothing but the name given by AL to "J" series engine (although the AL guys at Auto Expo had claimed to me that the engine was indigenous).

This is not so. Both J series and NEPTUNE are around the same size - 8 liters however they are completely different. Can be seen from the pictures of these engines itself (downloaded from the net). First one is a J series and the second the NEPTUNE

the J series engines earlier used by AL were Euro 2 compliant engines whereas the NEPTUNE is Euro 4 compliant.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by julupani

If that is the case, why so much delay in launching these engines?? I think I had heard about the Neptune engine from Leyland before I had heard about Tata World Trucks. The World Truck got launched as the Prima, and has made a decent name for itself as a high quality truck, but there is still no sign of the Neptune engines.

Neptune 8 liter engines have already found its way under the hood of the Super Stallion which is doing trials with the Indian Army for various Tenders. An engine is not offered in a vehicle under a tender unless it is production ready. So it is likely that the 8 liter version is almost ready. The 5 liter sibling is next in the neptune line up about which much is not known yet. 8 liter has a peak output of 360 HP. The delay in launching these is probably because ALL wants to come out with a complete truck with a new cabin, interiors and engine. Anyways there is no point in rushing with a 360 HP engine to the Indian market as the 280 HP Prima itself is considered over powered by the mileage conscious indian truckers. Highered powered trucks sell only in the deep mining tipper segment and that too in very few numbers. Nobody cares about turn around time much in the Indian market as far as tractor trailers are concerned.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

Neptune 8 liter engines have already found its way under the hood of the Super Stallion which is doing trials with the Indian Army for various Tenders. An engine is not offered in a vehicle under a tender unless it is production ready. So it is likely that the 8 liter version is almost ready. The 5 liter sibling is next in the neptune line up about which much is not known yet. 8 liter has a peak output of 360 HP. The delay in launching these is probably because ALL wants to come out with a complete truck with a new cabin, interiors and engine. Anyways there is no point in rushing with a 360 HP engine to the Indian market as the 280 HP Prima itself is considered over powered by the mileage conscious indian truckers. Highered powered trucks sell only in the deep mining tipper segment and that too in very few numbers. Nobody cares about turn around time much in the Indian market as far as tractor trailers are concerned.

Yes, I knew about those. And it perplexes me even more actually. If its production ready, then why not put it into production.

They had said, when the U-truck series was launched that it would come with Neptune engines. And they said it would be put into production last year too. And still the wait continues.

Also even though the max power output is 360hp, I am sure there will be lower powered versions, probably as low as 250hp. And most of these variants dont have a lot of components different. These lower powered variants could easily be put in U-trucks. You see MANs, MNALs and BB trucks all coming up with 280hp.

More and more truckers do care about turn around time, especially with the ever increasing length of 4/6 laned roads. That is why you see more and more of these high HP trucks being sold. Why do AL want to be a latecomer to the party??

So like I said, I find it strange that even though they have been talking about it for such a long time, we still dont have it on sale.

BTW, those Army trials take ages and final procurements take eons of time. Then there is no guarantee that they will win the tender in the first place as Tata now has some serious defence trucks in its arsenal, ranging from 4x4s to 12x12s and has won some contracts from foreign countries already.

[Transsenger]

Originally Posted by julupani

Also even though the max power output is 360hp, I am sure there will be lower powered versions, probably as low as 250hp. And most of these variants dont have a lot of components different. These lower powered variants could easily be put in U-trucks. You see MANs, MNALs and BB trucks all coming up with 280hp.

More and more truckers do care about turn around time, especially with the ever increasing length of 4/6 laned roads. That is why you see more and more of these high HP trucks being sold. Why do AL want to be a latecomer to the party??

BTW, those Army trials take ages and final procurements take eons of time. Then there is no guarantee that they will win the tender in the first place as Tata now has some serious defence trucks in its arsenal, ranging from 4x4s to 12x12s and has won some contracts from foreign countries already.

I feel there is no need for AL to rush in and deliberately put Neptune engine under U-truck hood. Let it come with their new N-truck/cab. Meanwhile the current H-series offerings in 160, 180 and 225CRS are doing good in the market. The volume of high HP truck is very low compared to normal 160-230HP range for all manufacturers. So definitely there is no need to be in a hurry.

BTW, a consortium of Ashok Leyland and L&T emerged the lowest bidder two weeks ago when commercial bids for procurement of 100 multibarrel rocket launchers (meant to upgrade the BM21 rocket launchers) were opened. The value of the contract is about Rs 100 crore, according to industry sources.

Ashok Leyland, Tata Motors and Tatra are competing in all categories. Ashok Leyland, which has supplied more than 65,000 four-wheel-drive Stallion trucks for the Indian Army, says it has developed a worldclass platform for the army's specialised needs. "Our trucks have more than 90% local content. The Neptune is an 8-litre, 6-cylinder, thirdgeneration common rail diesel engine that can deliver 360-400 bhp.
It is compliant with most European norms," said Ashok Leyland Vice-Chairman V Sumantran. His company has developed 6x6 and 8x8 variants of a truck called the Super Stallion that is competing in the army tenders. A spokesperson for Tata Motors declined comment.

Source: http://articles.economictimes.indiat...ers-ravi-rishi