[leylander]

Originally Posted by thecdkfactor

This is not a Auto box. Automatic transmissions are very costly and result in poor mileage (wrt commercial vehicles)

The Automated manual transmission has the same components as the manual transmission except that the shifting part is completely automated based on pre defined logic.

In addition to the above said point the AMT in boss has 4 modes
1. Manual mode in which it works like a paddle shift system
2. Eco mode in which automatically the gear shift takes place and the RPM is around 1800(varies for each gear based on gear ratio)
3. power mode in which automatically the gear shift takes place and the gear shift RPM is higher around 2200 ( again varies for each gear)
4. Crawler mode in which the clutch will engage with the flywheel at a higher RPM ( roughly 1500) so that it can be used in hills ( similar to half clutching for steep gradients).

The main advantage is that even though you run in auto modes you can manually override the gears with the push of the joystick if you want to suddenly upshift or downshift.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by leylander

the engine is definetly a detuned engine. the same engine components (i mean hardware) can easily take in more than 20 hp without any change. but the customers should be willing to loose the KMPL for better pick up and i doubt that in haulage the customers will welcome such an idea. probably when tipper is launched it could very well come out with a 150/160 hp.

Also AMT+ AC is a standard in LX variant as of now.

I think a customer who is willing to pay the extra dough on AC cab and an AMT would also have liked a bit more power and torque. Its not like a bit more power will cause a big drop in FE, especially considering the improvement that must have been achieved with common rail injection.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

This is 4 clylinder engine with IL pump. This is a 4 clylinder CRS engine. SO in BS III AL is offering both IL and CRS with two different power rating and different features.

That even the AL press release says. My question was: Is the engine Hino derived or something altogether new? What is the cubic capacity? What are the bore and stroke dimensions?

Yes, the wiper alignment is poorly done. Overall, from the pic posted here, the truck doesn't look very well put together.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by directinjection

That even the AL press release says. My question was: Is the engine Hino derived or something altogether new? What is the cubic capacity? What are the bore and stroke dimensions?..

Then your question should also be specific .
All these are derived from Hino . But other than bore and stroke with 104 and 113 mm and everything is changed now.

[SAE40 in veins]

Does any body have the pics of the interiors?? Also it will be a good idea if team BHP does a shoot out of the three new kids in town: The Boss, The Ultra and The Bharat Benz.

[Ashley2]

Boss in new colour.

[Thilak29]

Couple of queries :

1. 3-year anti-perforation warranty on cabin - What does this mean?
2. Why passenger cars do not come with automated manual transmission ?

[TheARUN]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

Does any body have the pics of the interiors?? Also it will be a good idea if team BHP does a shoot out of the three new kids in town: The Boss, The Ultra and The Bharat Benz.

Yes, never seen a TBhp shoot-out of anything more than 4 wheels!

Also, this would make it very interesting since the Boss is actually a Avia product and the Ultra Daewoo. Even the Benz is Fuso, talk about badge engineering

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

Also, this would make it very interesting since the Boss is actually a Avia product and the Ultra Daewoo. Even the Benz is Fuso, talk about badge engineering

Ultra doesn't share even a bolt with any Daewoo truck. Its a complete grounds up design by Tata. You can see it for yourself if u go to a Daewoo site. There is nothing comparable in that category. And yes you are right about the Bharatbenz. Even the boss has a drive line which is AL developed and only the cab and chassis is from Avia. Only the BB is badge engineered of all the three here.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

Also, this would make it very interesting since the Boss is actually a Avia product and the Ultra Daewoo.

Avia was a pre-existing product that became an AL product as a result of acquisition. The same can't be said about Ultra. When TM acquired Daewoo, the company only made HCVs. New product developments subsequent to Daewoo acquisition have resulted from TM's efforts and this needs to be acknowledged. Prima world truck development predates the acquisition of Daewoo and would have anyways occurred even if Daewoo hadn't been acquired. Calling Ultra a Daewoo product is to deny the role TM played in its development. TM does not run Daewoo the way it runs JLR.

[TheARUN]

Wish the Moderators would give us the option of deleting posts. I take my words back on Tata and Daewoo, thanks both for educating me

[julupani]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

Yes, never seen a TBhp shoot-out of anything more than 4 wheels!

Also, this would make it very interesting since the Boss is actually a Avia product and the Ultra Daewoo. Even the Benz is Fuso, talk about badge engineering

The Tata Ultra series is primarily a Tata product. Though obviously with Tata Daewoo being a subsidiary for TML, they may have been involved with some aspects of the design, along with a variety of other TML subsidiaries.

The Prima on the other hand is a heavily Korean product. But obviously here too the design changed since TML wanted to take the Prima global under their brand name. Thus Tata's own R&D, its European subsidiary the TMETC and other large vendors got involved in the development program of the Prima. Not to mention it was Tata's financial heft and ambition which took the project to a new level.

In fact, when Tata acquired Daewoo, they bought only the medium and heavy truck part. So I dont think they could sell the Ultra truck in Korea under the Daewoo brand. They cant even sell any buses at all, as those were taken up by other companies.

As for the Leyland Boss, even that has nothing in common with the AVIA truck, except its cab. Everything else is in house ALL or associated vendors.

As for Bharat Benz, its technically not badge engineered, since Mitsubishi Fuso is a Daimler company. Its a re-branding taking into account local conditions. Remember, there is no Bharat Benz outside India.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by julupani

The Prima on the other hand is a heavily Korean product.

The heavily Korean product was the Novus, not the Prima which, like Ultra is primarily a TM creation. Even the Novus was re-engineered/re-engined for India and other TM markets outside of East Asia.

Originally Posted by julupani

But obviously here too the design changed since TML wanted to take the Prima global under their brand name. Thus Tata's own R&D, its European subsidiary the TMETC and other large vendors got involved in the development program of the Prima. Not to mention it was Tata's financial heft and ambition which took the project to a new level.

Prima was conceived not by Daewoo but right here in India and this happened much before Daewoo acquisition. Tata had no real HCVs in its portfolio. Around the year 2000, TM decided to target the international CV market in a much bigger way. It was decided that TM would export 25% of its CV production by targeting select international markets such as Mexico, South Africa, Brazil and East Europe in a big way. Prima was conceived keeping this in mind. Stile Bertone of Italy was hired to style the modular cabs which had to be of an international standard. At that time, the truck was called the "Terminator" truck due to styling similarity with Arnold's movie truck.

Then in 2004, TM acquired Daewoo and its HCV portfolio. What the Prima was supposed to achieve for TM had now been achieved through the "shortcut" route. The Prima project was put on the backburner and instead TM introduced the Daewoo model in the non-Korean market (including India), although with Cummins engine.

After some time, the Prima project got revived but the project management was shifted from India to Korea since it was believed that Daewoo had greater experience/expertise with such products.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by directinjection

The heavily Korean product was the Novus, not the Prima which, like Ultra is primarily a TM creation. Even the Novus was re-engineered/re-engined for India and other TM markets outside of East Asia.

Novus was a complete Daewoo product, and existed when Tata bought the Daewoo CV business.

Originally Posted by directinjection

Prima was conceived not by Daewoo but right here in India and this happened much before Daewoo acquisition. Tata had no real HCVs in its portfolio. Around the year 2000, TM decided to target the international CV market in a much bigger way. It was decided that TM would export 25% of its CV production by targeting select international markets such as Mexico, South Africa, Brazil and East Europe in a big way. Prima was conceived keeping this in mind. Stile Bertone of Italy was hired to style the modular cabs which had to be of an international standard. At that time, the truck was called the "Terminator" truck due to styling similarity with Arnold's movie truck.

Then in 2004, TM acquired Daewoo and its HCV portfolio. What the Prima was supposed to achieve for TM had now been achieved through the "shortcut" route. The Prima project was put on the backburner and instead TM introduced the Daewoo model in the non-Korean market (including India), although with Cummins engine.

After some time, the Prima project got revived but the project management was shifted from India to Korea since it was believed that Daewoo had greater experience/expertise with such products.

You are correct. But Tata's project was at an ealier stage of development. Thus on acquisiton the two projects were merged. In fact the acquisition of Daewoo CV was primarily driven by the need to gain access to the next level of truck manufacturing, something which could compete all over the world.

I said its a heavily Korean product, because the R&D was primarily based out of Korea with support from ERC in India and TMETC in UK, as well as a large number of major component suppliers which Tata pulled in like Knorr-Bremse, Cummins, FPT, Hendrickson suspension, ZF, Eaton etc.

Of course even if the acqusition had not come through, Tata would have persevered and come up with a world class truck like the Prima

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by Thilak29

...3-year anti-perforation warranty on cabin - What does this mean?

This is a warranty aganist a formation hole in cabin due to rust.

Originally Posted by Thilak29

Why passenger cars do not come with automated manual transmission ?

Passenger cars does comes with Automated Manual Transmission - they are simply termed as dual clutch automatics.
Mercedes terms it as MCT (Multi Clutch Automatic) and is available with 5 speed as 5G-MCT and with speed as 7G-MCT. They are available with various gear rations to suit various power train options from 8 cylinder to 4 cylinder and available in most of the models.
The advantage in AMT in comparison to Automatic is reduced transmission loss apart from the reduced cost.

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

Ultra doesn't share even a bolt with any Daewoo truck. Its a complete grounds up design by Tata. ....

Originally Posted by directinjection

...The same can't be said about Ultra. .... Calling Ultra a Daewoo product is to deny the role TM played in its development. TM does not run Daewoo the way it runs JLR.

+1,
Tata developed the Ultra series aka Y1 series with global benchmarks from Nissan, Isuzu, Hyundai..etc. It was developed with clean slate and the platforms spans over range of buses and trucks from 6T onwards. The job done is commendable and the only thing with is common right now with existing products is engine.

With respect to Bharat Benz, it was predominantly developed from Axor range for MCV and Fuso range for ICV. Later the MCV is completely rebadged as Fuso. The entire product of BB is available in Fuso range as FJ, FO,FZ (MCV) and FA,FI (ICV).
The rebadging also is a part of Daimler's "Asia Business Model" were they will syergise the operation of Fuso as a Low cost brand elsewhere, were Mercedes may not fit. Also the Chennai facility is developed keeping in mind the duty benefits they will enjoy when they export, which is similar to Hyundai and Nissan (Nissan factory is in full swing production now though they are yet to make a mark in Indian PC market).
Currently rebadged Fuso is exported to SAARC and African countries.