[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by tharian

Volvo as a company came to our country to do business at the same time give us a different level of bus travel experience. And in return? They get this.

Accused on their face that their buses are faulty and was the sole reason for the mishaps

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

God knows what are the other electrical and electronic modifications the busses are subject to!

Rightly said guys, Volvo as a manufacturer is NOT to be blamed as they know what they are doing and the number of Volvo's that are plying on our roads along with the pending orders they could be having speak about that company. It is the operators who are to be blamed who skim-off safety for money source.

Cheap electrical modifications for TV and IBE (In-Bus Entertainment) is hampering with the wiring system that could spark a fire.

Anurag.

[gops2009]

To me the sudden rise in the number of Volvo's becoming combustible has more than what the eye meets.

The shoddy maintenance job , the cost skimming jugads and the indiscriminate loading of cargo (a lot of those cartons many a times contains inflammable stuff)

Top this with cutting corners compromising safety- Fewer tyres, tyres without thread, roadside electrical fixes, inexperienced and irresponsible drivers and the wrong criteria for calculating incentives for them - But all of these are obvious

The other angle is the cost of these high-tech vehicles, once used for a couple of years, I would believe that there is a mafia that tries to make money through insurance claims as this is more profitable than running the buses and earning money the right way

One may ask why has it not then happened earlier?? I have no clue, this is a theory for which I found there were many takers and from an economic perspective this look too good not be be true

[prmd_cochin]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Take a chill pill. And please get your facts right. For the record, AL launched the first air suspension buses in India. I hope you remember those Akbar travels 'airbuses' that used to take "gelff"-bound Malayalees to Bombay, for their flights?

Primitive engineering, or rather, using truck chassis for buses has been done away with. Both the homegrown giants have products that are quite advanced. Maybe not as sophisticated as Volvos or Scanias, but they do a fine job.

****

If the body design was approved by ARAI, and more or less the same design has passed the more stringent norms set in the EU et al, I would be inclined to believe that bad road design and reckless driving are the more probable reasons, rather than a design fault from Volvo

. The air suspension remark was a mistake from my part but I don't understand why you prescribed a chill pill for that. My issue is only with fact that Volvo was being aggressively targeted by the poster as a safety concern on our roads. My point is that everything on our roads incl the roads itself are a safety hazard. So no points burning extra calories and calling it alone burning coffins. It sounded vested, might be wrong. I also stand by the comment that our local manufacturers have slept in their comfort zones unless been kicked on their .....

[Sreedharan]

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

Volvo's are world renowned for safety

If Volvo is world renowned for safety, it must have engineered its buses, keeping in mind the operating condition (India). Picking a vehicle from European portfolio and selling it in India shows how much importance they give for safety.

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

How many die in our AL/Tata busses daily due to primitive engineering.

All these made into the news at appropriate times. 2 examples below (these were not even fatal incidents).
Tata: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/de...nes-tata-13129
Leyland: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/9930230.cms

The list goes on... The point is, all of them had to answer the critiques at sometime or the other. Now its the time for Volvo... No need to be so defensive towards any company that is here to sell its products and make money. For the bomb of a price, charged by Volvo, they better be safe...

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

The morons at Tata and AL

That was a little uncalled for... If you feel Tata and AL are morons on safety / comfort terms, Volvo is the big daddy of morons when it comes to cost (and now safety as well?)

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

. Volvo was being aggressively targeted by the poster as a safety concern on our roads.

After so many incidents, thats the least we expect from our officials and media. You should have been worried only if they were let to walk away...

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Rightly said guys, Volvo as a manufacturer is NOT to be blamed as they know what they are doing and the number of Volvo's that are plying on our roads along with the pending orders they could be having speak about that company. It is the operators who are to be blamed who skim-off safety for money source.

Cheap electrical modifications for TV and IBE (In-Bus Entertainment) is hampering with the wiring system that could spark a fire.

Anurag.

KSRTC volvo bus drivers undergo theory and practical classes as a part of their training. The amount is substantial which is borne by the govt.
Now are the private operators ready to shell out the amount to train their drivers? NO, for them if they shell out Re 1, they expect to recover Rs 5.
I guess the drivers would have been told " The driving methodology is same as that of AL?/TATA buses. A for accelerator, B for brake and C for clutch. "

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Sreedharan

If Volvo is world renowned for safety, it must have engineered its buses, keeping in mind the operating condition (India). Picking a vehicle from European portfolio and selling it in India shows how much importance they give for safety.

Though I agree unequivocally with you that manufacturers should keep operating conditions in mind while delivering products, illegal modifications and operating procedures are not part of 'operating conditions'.

If an operator is concerned more about profit than following recommended & prescribed safety standards, he should be held responsible for the inevitable mishaps, not the manufacturer.

For all the precision engineering in the world, a machine can't be built to be idiot and greed proof.

[prmd_cochin]

Originally Posted by Sreedharan

If Volvo is world renowned for safety, it must have engineered its buses, keeping in mind the operating condition (India). Picking a vehicle from European portfolio and selling it in India shows how much importance they give for safety.


All these made into the news at appropriate times. 2 examples below (these were not even fatal incidents).
Tata: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/de...nes-tata-13129
Leyland: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/9930230.cms

The list goes on... The point is, all of them had to answer the critiques at sometime or the other. Now its the time for Volvo... No need to be so defensive towards any company that is here to sell its products and make money. For the bomb of a price, charged by Volvo, they better be safe...



That was a little uncalled for... If you feel Tata and AL are morons on safety / comfort terms, Volvo is the big daddy of morons when it comes to cost (and now safety as well?)



After so many incidents, thats the least we expect from our officials and media. You should have been worried only if they were let to walk away...

Sreedharan, I am no volvo fan or supporter. I just had beef with targeted accusations towards a particular product. Volvo can be blamed too for these accidents and the product needs to be re engineered if required. But sreedharan you can't blames them for launching a European model with no modifications, it the regulatory body and buyer that should decide if the product should be allowed/bought. And me calling AL/Tata guys morons comes from the fact they have done nothing with initiative, but only as a reaction. Chinese buses are being sold in developing countries in many '000s while Indian trucks and buses and lagging far behind. Ever wondered why?

Originally Posted by silversteed

Primitive engineering, or rather, using truck chassis for buses has been done away with. Both the homegrown giants have products that are quite advanced. Maybe not as sophisticated as Volvos or Scanias, but they do a fine job.

They were done away with after they were forced to do so. They still offer basic buses only and none in the middle or upper segment. Please don't come for an argument with divo and Janbus. Even Indian operators aren't buying them in numbers. How many Al/Tata buses are used for long distance hauling, what are preferred by passengers for long distance travel?
Tata/AL semi Low floor and low floor buses too are half baked products. It's better if nothing is said about the fully built star buses of Tata.
So what engineering feat are you talking about?

[sachinayak]

Just a quick comment on this discussion.

A close friend of mine is a supplier to Volvo (and some other automobile manufacturers including Toyota). He regularly visits their workshops/factories and has a good insight into their operations. He mentions that Volvo is very very particular about quality and doing things right (something that is even ahead of Toyota, in his opinion). Apparently in Volvo, not a single nut is fit manually. Everything is fixed using a torque wrench, and each torque wrench is re-calibrated every 16 (or was it 21) days. There is no jugaad anywhere.

In contrast, just look at any tour operator. At every single step, there is so much jugaad, cost cutting, flouting rules, etc.

I have traveled in a Volvo from BLR to GOA in which the AC stopped working an hour into the journey. Thankfully we were in the first row and with the door open, it was bearable, but other passengers took turns to come in front and get some fresh air. Somehow completed the journey with some electrical wiring jugaad done by the Driver/Attender. All regular travellers could have similar stories to share on how poorly most tour operators (baring a couple of them perhaps) maintain their buses. The State Transport authorities seem much better in comparison.

Anyone can take an educated guess on which of the two parties can be at fault here.

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

Just a quick comment on this discussion.


In contrast, just look at any tour operator. At every single step, there is so much jugaad, cost cutting, flouting rules, etc.

I have traveled in a Volvo from BLR to GOA in which the AC stopped working an hour into the journey. Thankfully we were in the first row and with the door open, it was bearable, but other passengers took turns to come in front and get some fresh air. Somehow completed the journey with some electrical wiring jugaad done by the Driver/Attender. All regular travellers could have similar stories to share on how poorly most tour operators (baring a couple of them perhaps) maintain their buses. The State Transport authorities seem much better in comparison.

Anyone can take an educated guess on which of the two parties can be at fault here.

It is very evident that the private operators are keen on making fast bucks. Look the price of a multi axle volvo is close to 86 lakhs. The owner's primary aim is to recover the money in the least possible time. How??

By flouting rules, carrying illegal loads, charging exorbitant fares..

I feel good technology on the buses is not suitable for these guys. All that they need is battered and bruised buses to run the show. With lot of electronics in today's vehicle, the chances of survival of the passengers becomes less in case these electronic parts conk courtesy the private operators.

[Rahul Rao]

The placement of Fuel tanks, battery and other components is almost a standard the entire world over.
Fuel tanks are usually transversely fitted behind the axle if more fuel capacity is requested two auxiliary tanks are fitted laterally on each side above them. Batteries are also almost always below the drivers seat. RHS in case of RHD traffic, and LHS in case of LHD traffic.
The spare wheel is also almost always in front center of the bus accessed by flipping up the front bumper. Mr Gottlob Auwarter the founder of Neoplan moved away from Body on Chassis to full tube structure bus body in early 1950's and the basic design and placement has been a standard from then onward.
So blaming design and placement for the fire is just bullshit by incompetent authority.
Bodies like ARAI and VRDE have homologated the vehicle and done all the required tests.
Use of marine ply for floors and fire resistant foam and plastic for interior is also a world standard.
What needs to be seen is 4 out of 5 Volvos that caught fire in recent times had departed from Bangalore. Were these buses having diesel or some thing else in their fuel tanks.
Lastly the effect of chemicals used for internal cleaning in these buses, do these chemicals remove the fire resistant coating given to the upholstery and wood panels.

Rahul

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

The placement of Fuel tanks, battery and other components is almost a standard the entire world over.
Fuel tanks are usually transversely fitted behind the axle if more fuel capacity is requested two auxiliary tanks are fitted laterally on each side above them. Batteries are also almost always below the drivers seat. RHS in case of RHD traffic, and LHS in case of LHD traffic.
The spare wheel is also almost always in front center of the bus accessed by flipping up the front bumper. Mr Gottlob Auwarter the founder of Neoplan moved away from Body on Chassis to full tube structure bus body in early 1950's and the basic design and placement has been a standard from then onward.
So blaming design and placement for the fire is just bullshit by incompetent authority.
Bodies like ARAI and VRDE have homologated the vehicle and done all the required tests.
Use of marine ply for floors and fire resistant foam and plastic for interior is also a world standard.
What needs to be seen is 4 out of 5 Volvos that caught fire in recent times had departed from Bangalore. Were these buses having diesel or some thing else in their fuel tanks.
Lastly the effect of chemicals used for internal cleaning in these buses, do these chemicals remove the fire resistant coating given to the upholstery and wood panels.

Rahul

Regarding the Hyderabad bound bus tragedy, eye witnesses said they heard some explosions. The point here is all private operators flout rules at will by carrying illegal stuff so that they make fast buck.

[prmd_cochin]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

The placement of Fuel tanks, battery and other components is almost a standard the entire world over.
Fuel tanks are usually transversely fitted behind the axle if more fuel capacity is requested two auxiliary tanks are fitted laterally on each side above them. Batteries are also almost always below the drivers seat. RHS in case of RHD traffic, and LHS in case of LHD traffic.
The spare wheel is also almost always in front center of the bus accessed by flipping up the front bumper. Mr Gottlob Auwarter the founder of Neoplan moved away from Body on Chassis to full tube structure bus body in early 1950's and the basic design and placement has been a standard from then onward.
So blaming design and placement for the fire is just bullshit by incompetent authority.
Bodies like ARAI and VRDE have homologated the vehicle and done all the required tests.
Use of marine ply for floors and fire resistant foam and plastic for interior is also a world standard.
What needs to be seen is 4 out of 5 Volvos that caught fire in recent times had departed from Bangalore. Were these buses having diesel or some thing else in their fuel tanks.
Lastly the effect of chemicals used for internal cleaning in these buses, do these chemicals remove the fire resistant coating given to the upholstery and wood panels.

Rahul

try saying that to a few here and you will be eaten alive.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

What needs to be seen is 4 out of 5 Volvos that caught fire in recent times had departed from Bangalore. Were these buses having diesel or some thing else in their fuel tanks. Lastly the effect of chemicals used for internal cleaning in these buses, do these chemicals remove the fire resistant coating given to the upholstery and wood panels.

Rahul Sir, I have seen very heavy electrical (after market) modification but hopethese illegal modifications don't back fire. The cleaning agents used would not be that corrosive to eat away layers of the protective coating. There is a symbol showing the hammer position but sad to see the hammer is stolen.

Originally Posted by suresh_gs

The point here is all private operators flout rules at will by carrying illegal stuff so that they make fast buck.

Money is important than life so the gamble is played. The Volvo buses are much better than the other operators are! Most of the revenue grenades coves from goods shipping/transfer so people keep sending parcel but these operators must have a system to check for fire hazardous materials.

Anurag.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

The air suspension remark was a mistake from my part...

The chill pill was because you were calling those working for AL/TM, morons, and it sounded as if you needed, well, a chill pill

About the other points, I was only trying to put across the point that AL and TM buses do a fine job at the price they sell for. Let's leave that for another thread.

Both of us were pointing to the same thing - the bigger fault lies not with Volvo, but with the other variables.

[Autokrat]

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

What where you trying to say? When I say morons at Tata and AL, how's that insulting members here. 50 odd years of monopoly and still they where providing truck chasis for bus building. What should they be called?

"Truck chassis" was a very clever piece of marketing talk invented by Volvo. Pl. read an earlier post of mine.

Post 151
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...travel-11.html

Post 144
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...ml#post2826073



In the deluge of monsoon, whenever you have the annual event of flooded streets in some of our metros all our commuters have to rely on as public transport are these "truck buses" built by the "morons" in Tata / AL. Typically the premium, contemporary Volvo buses are the first to be withdrawn from the roads and will be cooling their heels in the garages.
To cut a long story short, the Truck buses are still plying because custmers see value / utility and for exactly the same reasons, two other european giants (venerable names) MAn, Daimler are attempting to bring on front engined buses of their own.