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Originally Posted by i74js There are inherent issues with AMT in terms of
- Forward movement in hilly area from stand-still, the wheels will roll back without brake application |
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Originally Posted by carmayogi To counter these points. 1: Drivers can use the brake pedal/accelerator combination to get moving. Either that or Tata can install hill-hold systems. These days electronics are not that expensive to install. |
As quoted by Carmoyogi, its a interim solution to train the drives to use brake pedals in left leg till the vehicle moves forward. But that is not a complete and right solution and there are options like using a relay valve in brake circuit, sensing the roll over by using pole wheel sensor(similar to ABS) and then braking, to use a new Crawler mode where in when its switched on brake will be engaged for limited time post removing the foot pedal so that vehicle moves forward.
Anything which is feasible with given boundary conditions of vehicle integration can be adopted easily.
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Originally Posted by i74js - Performance of AMT under overload (which is standard in trucking business) |
There will be no issue in overload, but actual problem will be there when its a overload coupled with wheel struck in mud. Here the simulations are similar to manual and you need some more additional tyre grip for the vehicle to come out. But as quoted here, AMT is actual so nicer to clutch and ensures uniform and less wear on all sides. So better the clutch face better the way to come out.
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Originally Posted by i74js - Poor maintenance conditions, significantly long oil change intervals (exceeding 20-30k km) in most cases
- Roadside repairs |
Here the risk is there and its open to Customers. Everything cannot be taken care by manufacturer itself and it needs support from Customers as well.
But what I would suggest is Tata should work on increasing the oil drain interval from the current levels of 80k Kms which is tad lesser and a much robust GB .
Reason being AMT systems are little straight forward and will refuse shifting gears if they found abnormal increase in shifting force. Say a input shaft spigot bearing fails and due to which it increases the axial play between the shafts. This will cause problems in AMT, as system will find increase in shifting force and will refuse to select gears and will reject. YOu cannot even choose a manual mode and select the same gear. SO vehicle is off road.
But say in a manual GB these issues can be overridden either by choosing lower or higher gear. So the funda is GB should be strong(in a contextual meaning to AMT) and should be trouble free, as any removal and refitting of system will require careful assembly and system learning which is time consuming.
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Originally Posted by i74js Tata's will have to start with organized players (like fleet operators for automobile sector) to test their AMT product instead of straight sales in open market which might boomerang. Their present fleet of intercity buses could also get an AMT instead of torque converter. |
This is where, the difference between a passenger car market and commercial vehicle market comes. In my experience in CV industry, I have seen very few products(or features) which receive overwhelming response. Even Prima, which was too good in terms of features and options, the response was relatively cold limiting to major Tata KAM customers.
In this case, majority of market getting convincing is done by AL and so it will be cat walk for Tata, provided they target right application.
None of their Tata's Intercity buses currently have torque converter.
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Originally Posted by silversteed AMT has been in use in Commercial vehicles for quite some time. Contrary to what is being made to look like, Tata's AMT is not the first of its kind. In fact, they're pretty late to the party. My guess is, the only reason they have speeded up this launch is to be able to qualify for JnNURM-2 bidding - AMT is a mandatory feature in UBS-2. |
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Originally Posted by Autolock123 AMT is also quite expensive compared to manual transmission ( to best of my knowledge about 35-40% more than MT, please correct me i am wrong), for the market like India which is extremely cost conscious, price is another factors which is holding it back. |
J2 doesn't mandate AMT but gives as a option to use either AMT or AT. But AMT being cost effective, it has favored AL in pricing largely. The difference between AMT and AT itself is close to 1.5 lks.
And Tata did showcase its Diesel hybrid bus in Auto Expo 14 with AMT and it was too bad last minute cook up job.
The SLU was straight lift and harness and cables were just left loosely hanging.
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Originally Posted by Autolock123 Another factor which i came across while reading about AMT's sometime back was, resistance from Experienced Drivers. they usually say that shifting the gears at right time is their skill which they have learnt and understood over a period of time and hence are not easily ready to accept the AMT's in their trucks. Though it has been more prevalent into the developed market , now,the new generation of drivers are not much inclined to MT as they have never used it even in cars. |
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Originally Posted by silversteed You almost got the pricing part right, with the AMT. CVs fitted with AMT evince interest among large fleet owners, where the variance in fuel efficiency and maintenance can be cut down if the gear-shifting follows a pre-set algorithm, and the dependence on the driver's skill is brought to a minimum. A fleet owner would see the big picture - additional investment to be made for an AMT truck vs the savings made by obtaining a higher kmpl from the fleet by reducing the dependence on the drivers - there will be extremely skilled drivers who can extract great figures, and there will be rookies who won't be able to extract good FE in a bid to meet timings. In our country, good drivers are in short-supply, and fleet owners will have to make do with whoever approaches them. |
The biggest advantage of AMT is, it increases the fleet KMPL. In a fleet of 2000 odd trucks, the spread between the best and worst driver is very high and so it nullifies the fuel performance brought by the experience drivers. This is what AMT targets and tries to reduce the variance and spread so that avg fleet kmpl is increased.