[travancore]

Naval Wings in colour

[V.Narayan]

^^^^^
The second photo of recently acquired Hawker Seahawks is from their delivery flights,flown by IN pilots, from the UK to India c. 1963. They flew in pairs navigating with the basic kit of the late 1940s designed Seahawks. Stop overs were typically in Cyprus, and Dubai. Travancore we look forward to more postings of your collection of historic photos.

[travancore]

No "fire" in these Fireflys, as far as I know. They just got fired upon (TT)

[V.Narayan]

^^^^^
Many thanks Travancore. Keep them coming.

These Fairey Firefly's were used as target tugs to provide naval warships with some meaningful anti aircraft practice. They were 1940s vintage aircraft that we purchased in 1955 for a nominal price and used them for a few years. They were also used to help the first lot of naval aviators clock in some flying hours while INS Vikrant was under construction. Originally they were designed as a carrier-borne torpedo carrying anti-submarine aircraft. We acquired them only for target tug duties - unglamorous but important.

The Firefly's were powered by a 1730 HP, V12, 36,700 cc Rolls Royce Griffon engine.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

^^^^^
Many thanks Travancore. Keep them coming.

These Fairey Firefly's were used as target tugs to provide naval warships with some meaningful anti aircraft practice.

We acquired them only for target tug duties - unglamorous but important.

The Firefly's were powered by a 1730 HP, V12, 36,700 cc Rolls Royce Griffon engine.

Interesting ! But won't our own pilots be hit in such practice? How do we safeguard the target pilots?

And which aircrafts serve this purpose today?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

But won't our own pilots be hit in such practice? How do we safeguard the target pilots?

Yes the risk was always there. You placed your faith in the gunner and your God.

And which aircrafts serve this purpose today?

I do not know. The last I knew the MiG-23's were used in the IAF and Hawker Hunters before them but not sure who took over in either IAF or IN. With automated radar controlled fire the need is less today but still used to give live firing practice to those weapons.

[travancore]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

^^^^^
The second photo of recently acquired Hawker Seahawks is from their delivery flights,flown by IN pilots, from the UK to India c. 1963. They flew in pairs navigating with the basic kit of the late 1940s designed Seahawks. Stop overs were typically in Cyprus, and Dubai. Travancore we look forward to more postings of your collection of historic photos.

IN Sea Harriers, Malta, 1983


Twenty years later. The next generation in Malta, also a stopover on many flights. Then Lt. Cdr Arun Prakash led the first ferry flight in 1983




Lt.Cdr Arun Prakash in the cockpit, yes he did grow a beard while in the U.K. Shaved it off enroute in Abu Dhabi to conform to his official photo ID!




Arrival at INS Hansa, Dec 16, 1983



A first hand account here:

http://ifr16.indiannavy.gov.in/write...rdeck_2014.pdf

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

^^^^^
The second photo of recently acquired Hawker Seahawks is from their delivery flights,flown by IN pilots, from the UK to India c. 1963. They flew in pairs navigating with the basic kit of the late 1940s designed Seahawks. Stop overs were typically in Cyprus, and Dubai. Travancore we look forward to more postings of your collection of historic photos.

Those Black Seahawks were from the Batch 4 and Batch 5 Seahawks acquired from Britain in November 1963(16 airframes).

The Indian Navy referred to them as 'Black Hawks'. All were ex-Royal Navy airframes and most of them were FGA.4s upgraded to FGA.6 standards. A couple of them even served with the Royal Navy in the Suez Canal crisis.

The British painted their Seahawks black only after they retired from active service. This is because they were used for target towing. This was so that the ground AA guns and airborne aircraft could fire at the target towed by the Seahawk and yet easily sight the actual Seahawk. Since the Indian Navy bought old second hand Seahawks in Batches four and five, the British sold them to us in the same colour, just to save some money for themselves( unlike early ferried Seahawks, these did not have the White Tigets logo painted on them) .

All those Black Seahawks were repainted in standard blue/ white livery in India some time later. But in the interim period, the Indian Navy painted the 'white' White Tigers logo on the Black Seahawks which looked contrastingly brilliant. Standard blue/white livery painted Indian seahawks had the white tigers logo painted in light yellow.

Seahawks from these two batches were the first ones to be ferried by Insian Navy pilots. The previous three batches were brand new FGA.6 airframes ferried by Royal Navy and Hawker pilots.

The route followed by IN pilots for delivery was of Batch 4 & 5 Seahawks(done on three batches) : Sydenham-Yeovilton-Orange-Naples-Malta-Cairo-Beirut-Baghdad-Bahrain-Sharjah-Karachi-Bombay-Sulur.

Batch Six Seahawks were ex- West German Navy Seahawk Mk.100s and Mk.101s equipped with radar pods(28 airframes). These were shipped on merchant ships in special 40' containers

Ref: Vice Admiral Vinod Pasricha's book titled 'Downwind Four Green', which is a beautifully compiled 400 page book and an encyclopedia on Indian Navy Seahawks. No one has attempted to write such a book dedicated to an Indian aircraft with so much detail.
I was lucky enough to get an autographed copy of the book by the author himself, which was the first commercial copy of the book. Vice Admiral Pasricha sir was gracious enough to personally answer my queries on Seahawks on e-mail and I shall treasure his book and those e-mails forever.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

It took about 2 to 3 hours to warm up, start and then bring the engines to optimum temperature and RPM to ready them for the typical 12 to 16 hour flights.

Normally for turbines start up to full load times can be measured in seconds (which is separate from throttle response). So what was warmed up for hrs? And why was it necessary?

Any drawings for the gearbox driving the contrarotating props?

Regards
Sutripta

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Sharing a similar pic w.r.t. ISRO- humble beginnings to world leaders today

While I am proud of our progress from the humble beginning, what exactly could have been the need for that Bullock cart? In 70s we had trucks, Indian 12 ton trucks as well as old imported medium size trucks.

[Sutripta]

^^^
Maybe ISRO did not have trucks at that site. And being a govt. organisation hiring one would have meant time consuming tendering, secrecy clauses etc.

IIRC, during the end period of WW2, in Germany the jet engines for the ME262 were ferried on horse drawn sleds. Maybe the others here can get pictures of those.

Regards
Sutripta

[travancore]

I have never seen this before, shame on me!

Some amazingly good first hand articles and photos covering all arms of the Indian navy:

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/...erdeck2018.pdf

[SmartCat]

This sounds like a gamechanger for Indian Navy - the COMCASA agreement!
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how-...arines-1912315

When a US warship or aircraft detects a Chinese warship or submarine, the warships, submarines and aircraft of the Indian Navy operating in the region will get to know instantly about the presence of the Chinese vessels through the transmission of encrypted data shared by the US Navy.

Not only will the Indian Navy get the exact bearing and speed of the Chinese vessels, they may also be able to receive a live video feed of the 'target' as well. CENTRIXS is one of the systems that enable India and the United States to fight together as military allies in a combat zone since both sides would have access to a common operational picture, a single identical display which shows the position of enemy targets, friendly forces and other critical information which greatly enhances the situational awareness of military commanders

[PetrolRider]

Originally Posted by smartcat

I have very limited knowledge on military issues as such, but I wonder how the friend or foe (IFF) concept will work in Indian scenario.

• How do the P8is of IN will interact with our Russian origins ships / subs / armaments and missiles? Heck, even most of our war birds would be incompatible. I doubt US will allow us to install any kind of interface with our non-NATO origin systems.

• Again, F16s of our unfriendly neighbor in west would emit friend or foe signatures?

[ads11]

Originally Posted by PetrolRider

I have very limited knowledge on military issues as such, but I wonder how the friend or foe (IFF) concept will work in Indian scenario.

• How do the P8is of IN will interact with our Russian origins ships / subs / armaments and missiles? Heck, even most of our war birds would be incompatible. I doubt US will allow us to install any kind of interface with our non-NATO origin systems.

• Again, F16s of our unfriendly neighbor in west would emit friend or foe signatures?

You raise a good point. To the best of my knowledge though this is something India has been operating with for quite some time now. The provenance of most of our military hardware covers the entire gamut of geopolitical powers. Take for example the fact that AFAIK our Su-30MKI is a Russian platform with a smattering of Indian, French and Israeli subsystems and avionics. In fact I don't think I would be wrong to say that it's these byzantine arrangements that make the task of those maintaining the hardware all the more difficult given the myriad vendors parts will need to be sourced from.

I know that most NATO members would have their frontline jets able to communicate with each other via the Link-16 system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16). Naturally this compatibility should be hardwired into most US origin platforms I should imagine. Indian platforms probably have their own equivalent to this. Thus I wager a lot of the add on expense of Indian contracts comes in retrofitting the ability for all these different things to speak to each other using the same language in the war space (as a contractor I can see this being a hassle but an easy way to pad out my bottom line).

I suppose the IFF systems must be tailored differently then. There has to be some existing fix to this. IAF participation in multinational exercises should imply that all the participating aircraft can clearly distinguish each other in the sky. EDIT - ah well lookie here https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018...e-comcasa.html

The Indian military has navigated the firewalls of CISMOA/COMCASA during procurements in the past by plugging in Indian-built equipment to perform encrypted communications and other functions.

COMCASA sure is a fillip to the IN. At a time when our ASW helicopter fleet is in dire need of an upgrade (https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018...-choppers.html) and many of the destroyers have yet to get their towed array sonars (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/47473138.cms) And one of our subs had the forward sonar dome damaged (https://www.firstpost.com/india/ins-...d-4237771.html) any help we can get to track PLAN movement in the Indian Ocean Region is a welcome addition. I do however understand why some might be reticent about the possibility of bringing India further into US orbit and subsequently more beholden to it policy wise but I'm afraid this is one example where a trade off had to be made.