[locusjag]

^ Everyone agrees though that French aircraft will be way more reliable without us having to jump through hoops.

[V.Narayan]

Defence Ministry clears Navy's Rs 3600 crore deal with Russia for 10 Kamov-31 choppers

These 10 will be in addition to the 12 already in service. AEW is a force multiplier. Some principles of defence have not changed in a 1000 years – height matters to see afar! Delivery schedule has not been announced. The Ka-31’s have served us well and the PLAN is the now the third customer. With the new batch we’ll be the largest operator of this rotary winged aircraft.

As a child of the 1960s and 70s I must admit I have a soft spot for the Russians and nostalgia for the days of Indo-Soviet friendship. IMHO, the Russian’s, the French and the Israeli’s are our only reliable friends.

As for the discussion preceding this post – fully agree the Naval Rafale would be a very good choice for our future carrier borne MRCA needs.

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0301127_1.html

In terms of neatness of design this aircraft is a darling - the co-axial rotors to reduce the flight deck footprint so very vital in Naval aviation - the neat way the huge radar folds and unfolds beneath the airframe - the way the landing gear pulls up to reduce any reflected own noise for the radar.

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by ads11

Fascinating news just before bed time -
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...lizabeth-class

TL: DR
-BAE Systems have been in talks with an IN delegation for some time now about the possibility of the Queen Elizabeth Class design being offered as a potential basis for the future circa 75000ton Indian "supercarrier"
----snip----

Apparently, India and UK are in talks to build a conventionally powered supercarrier , according to a report in today's The Hindu.
to quote the article

If the talks succeed, the new Naval carrier would serve alongside India’s 45,000-ton carrier INS Vikramaditya, pictured here. | Photo Credit: PTI

The talks are under way for the Indian Navy to buy detailed plans for the 65,000-ton British warship to build a so-called “copycat supercarrier” to be named INS Vishal in 2022, according to a British media outlet.

The United Kingdom is in talks with the Indian government on building a new state-of-the-art aircraft carrier along the lines of Britain’s HMS Queen Elizabeth as part of the ongoing ‘Make in India’ negotations, according to a media report.

The talks are under way for the Indian Navy to buy detailed plans for the 65,000-ton British warship to build a so-called “copycat supercarrier” to be named INS Vishal in 2022.

“An Indian delegation has already visited Rosyth dockyard in Scotland where HMS Queen Elizabeth was assembled and where a second supercarrier, HMS Prince of Wales, is now being built,” the Sunday Mirror reported.

“If a deal can be agreed, the new warship would be built in India but UK companies could supply many of the parts,” the media outlet claimed.

The report noted that such a new Naval carrier would serve alongside India’s 45,000-ton carrier INS Vikramaditya — bought from Russia in 2004 — and the currently under-construction 40,000-ton INS Vikrant, and could give India a larger carrier fleet than Britain.

“We have regular discussions with India on a range of equipment and capability issues. It would be inappropriate to comment further,” UK Defence Minister Stuart Andrew said, declining to comment on the reports.

The design for UK aircraft carriers is owned by the British and French aerospace giants BAE and Thales.

“Discussion have begun with India. The design can be modified to meet Indian Navy and local industry requirements,” a BAE spokesperson said.

The reported India-UK Naval deal would follow the sale of Britain’s Falklands War carrier HMS Hermes to India in 1987, which was renamed INS Viraat and decommissioned two years ago.

The carrier, which going by reports in the media may be called INS Vishal, is likely to be based on HMS Prince of Wales (R09) which is the second Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier under construction for the Royal Navy, and which is likely to be commissioned in 2020. Here's an artist's impression as to what the carrier would look like.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

-----snip-----PS: Will some one tell the Chief of Naval Staff that we need a more creative name than Vishal for our next carrier

Apparently, going by the various articles in the media, Vishal is the name the Navy is going with as of now.

Cheers !

Article Courtesy : The Hindu
INS Vikramaditya Image Courtesy : PTI
Artist's Impression Courtesy: https://htka.hu/cimke/hms-prince-of-wales/

[V.Narayan]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/In...ircraft-585476

10 more P-8I's order cleared. This should bring the strength to 22 I think. Good for us. While on one hand I feel a little concerned about this growing dependence on the Americans who only want us because they want a counter weight to China I must admit this is a superlative aircraft and weapons platform. Through history LRMPs flew at below 5000 feet for their patrols burning fuel at a prodigious rate. The P-8 has turned the equation around by having all the weapon systems designed to work from 30,000 feet. This is the best counter we have to the Chinese submarine threat. IIRC the IN will, with this, become the largest foreign operator of the P-8.

Fly Navy.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

http://www.defencenews.in/article/In...ircraft-585476

10 more P-8I's order cleared. This should bring the strength to 22 I think. Good for us. While on one hand I feel a little concerned about this growing dependence on the Americans who only want us because they want a counter weight to China I must admit this is a superlative aircraft and weapons platform. Through history LRMPs flew at below 5000 feet for their patrols burning fuel at a prodigious rate. The P-8 has turned the equation around by having all the weapon systems designed to work from 30,000 feet. This is the best counter we have to the Chinese submarine threat. IIRC the IN will, with this, become the largest foreign operator of the P-8.

Fly Navy.

The P-8 deal is one of the best India has actually signed in recent years and doubling down on that platform is one of the few no brainer decisions our famously convoluted procurement process has made.

As a platform it's probably the best you can get because other than the Japanese Kawasaki P-1 and the yet to appear Airbus ASW offering - there really aren't any mature ASW platforms of note in the latest generation that I know of.

By getting in early India is now part of a vibrant community of P-8 users that is only going to grow especially since the Brits finally decided to get involved as well. And as you correctly pointed out, more platforms will be especially useful in sharpening our ASW capability in the IOR as the PLAN gets more adventurous. I know you've had a historical reticence of the Americans but for this one platform I think the synergy is too good. USN P-8's and IN P-8's will both primarily be tasked with tracking PLAN boats so the joint training opportunities and the potential for our crews and theirs to share knowhow will be fantastic. The IN should really take initiative and maybe offer to host a joint exercise with the RN, RAN, USN and whoever else would want to joint. Make it ASW centric. Lord only knows that everyone needs more revision in that regard (the Japanese are probably the only ones around with a full spectrum of cutting edge ASW capabilities).

EDIT: Right I missed the fact that there's already Been some exercises. But more the merrier to practice I say.

[ads11]

Ooer, neat little video showing us inside a (USN) P-8. While the pre COMCASA Indian versions might have different internal subsystems I wager the new ones we've just ordered will look a lot like this inside. I especially found it interesting to see the cockpit video of the two big trim control wheels spinning (they've been in the news obviously for the 737 Max 8 scandal - it was something the pilots tried using but I digress).

I imagine what we're seeing is the sonobuoys being loaded in. They don't look like depth charges to me. It's interesting how easily the airman was able to grab them off the rack and put them in (almost like the galley on a civilian 737!). What are the odds IN aviators are out there doing just the same thing as they try and keep tabs on any boats in the region that aren't ours?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOY_fot41As

[Sutripta]

Apparently final decision to send Viraat to the knackers has been taken.

Regards
Sutripta

[V.Narayan]

Indian Naval Air Squadron ‘White Tigers’ turns 60

https://www.thehansindia.com/news/na...urns-60-545049

To read more on their exploits in 1971 read here on Team BHP :-
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...dian-navy.html (Indian Aviation - Hawker Seahawk with the Indian Navy)

To know more about their spirit de corps read post#24 :-)

Aircraft that have served with INAS 300 are :


Hawker Seahawk which also played a stellar role in 1971. They served with INAS300 from 1959 to ~1979-80. A few were kept operational after 1980 but stopped flying from the carrier.


Seahawks in 1971 on board the old INS Vikrant. For aviation enthusiasts note one aircraft on the steam catapult and the second lining up to be hooked up. Note the split flaps and large ailerons; note the air cooling flaps opened inwards - the little black dashes you see just behind the cockpit. Note the unswept thick wing which gave it a lot of fuel capacity but kept speeds down to the 500 knot spectrum. The latter did not matter in 1949 when it was designed because the most powerful reliable turbojet the Rolls Royce Nene's output of 5000 lbs force could not take a machine any faster.


Sea Harrier Vertical Take-Off fighter. Coming in to land. Note position of all four nozzles. Not air brake lowered to help stabilize the aircraft and give a finer control over deceleration.


MiG-29

Outside the US Navy and French Navy INAS 300 is the oldest naval fighter squadron in continuous service. In 1957 when we ordered the purchase of INS Vikrant we were not really a nation that needed a carrier. But we understood that it takes a whole generation to master carrier aviation and if we don’t start we will never get there. That statesman like thinking, in 1957, has kept us in the game today.

Credit must go to the naval aviators and maintenance engineers and ground crew, of the Indian Navy, who mastered and kept alive this most difficult of military skills on she string budgets in the first 5 decades. It is only now that we as a nation can afford the full budgets needed to build carrier aviation.

Onwards to the 70th anniversary celebrated hopefully flying from Vikrant II. Jai Hind.

[ads11]

Anyone remember the deal for the Japanese ShinMaywa US-2 amphibian plane?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...short-distance

Here's a ridiculously cool video of its STOL (short take off and landing capabilities). Honestly, the take off distance seems equivalent to that for your usual remote control plane, not something so hefty.

Landing: https://twitter.com/OTCHIN1/status/1...short-distance

Take off: https://twitter.com/OTCHIN1/status/1...short-distance

What seems to be holding back purchases seems the high cost. Roughly $113M unit price for the deal we negotiated!! Which isn't surprising for Japanese defence products, especially prior to export controls being lifted. You don't have the benefit of a big old production line and more export orders to lower unit costs (one reason the US so aggressively wanted partners to go in on the F-35, help bring down the average cost for everybody).

Has anyone heard any news since about this deal? It's clear that it would be really useful for the IN in the many littoral environments it has to operate in. I wonder if the fact there are US components might be holding it back..

[V.Narayan]

^^^^^^
Other than very powerful blown flaps it's STOL skills come from the hull using hydrodynamics as an asset. While landing you'll see how the hull is used as a gigantic brake that uses the drag of the water to create stopping power no wheel brake ever could. While taking off even at very low speeds of well below 100 KMPH the hull design lifts the nose out of the water and creates an angle of attack for the wings as step one. Then the hull design uses hydrodynamic lift (nothing to do with the wings) to lift the hull out of the water and momentarily the aircraft hangs on the 'step' in the hull at mid point and it is in those two seconds that enough speed is attained to lift the machine on its wings. It's STOL capabilities on water are superior to what it can achieve on land because hydrodynamics are brought into play. I love this aircraft. Went to see it once. In typical Jap style ever inch of the design had been thought through with thoroughness.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Sea Harrier Vertical Take-Off fighter. Coming in to land. Note position of all four nozzles. Not air brake lowered to help stabilize the aircraft and give a finer control over deceleration.

The (sea) Harrier is an amazing plane. i am fortunate having seen it perform dozens of times in various airshows all over the world.

This photograph does show it in typical vertical landing configuration. Never quite understood why they have the air brake out. Air brakes are only efficient at high speeds. By the time the pilot starts rotating the nozzles to transition from horizontal to vertical mode, the speed brake must be in hardly efficient?

I just do not know. My thinking is they use the speed brake to quickly slow down and just leave it in the extended position as they are concentrating on landing. I am not sure if it really has any use in the actual (vertical) landing. Maybe there are some other aerodynamics in play as well?

Any insights?

It take tremendous skills to pilot the Harrier. We are talking hard core stick, rudder and throttle skills. No electronic gadgets, no auto anything when it comes to hovering and landing. Modern helicopter have auto pilot systems that assist the pilot in hovering and landing over a pitching and rolling deck. I do not think any of the various Harrier variants had anything like that?

Jeroen

[Deepsp]

DRDO and Aeronautical Development Agency successfully executed first arrested landing of LCA at a test facility in Goa.

Source: ANI: https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1172415533871857664?s=19

[Deepsp]

Here's the video of arrested landing of LCA.

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/statu...825446913?s=19

[fhdowntheline]

I think the Navy would do well with a light combat aircraft like Tejas, which its medium capacity carriers can support in terms of weight and overall dimensions. Hope the Naval Tejas shapes up into a stable long serving platform. That arrested landing looked really sharp. It would of course, be more challenging on the actual carrier deck, which is not really a static platform, especially on high seas.

[V.Narayan]

Indian Navy to sign purchase deal with USA to acquire 24 MH-60R Seahawk multi-role shipboard helicopters

https://eurasiantimes.com/india-to-c...s-in-november/


The Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk multi-mission helicopter is equipped for a range of missions including anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-surface warfare (ASuW), search-and-rescue (SAR), naval gunfire support (NGFS), surveillance, communications relay, logistics support and personnel transfer and vertical replenishment (VERTREP). For VERTREP the helicopter is fitted with a ~2,720kg (6,000lb) cargo hook.The helicopter operates from frigates, destroyers, amphibious ships and aircraft carriers, and is suitable for intense littoral warfare operations for handling numerous contacts in confined spaces, and for open-water operations.

For anti-surface warfare missions, the helicopter can be equipped with a range of weapons on the four weapons stations, including Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire anti-surface missiles.For anti-submarine warfare, the MH-60R can carry up to three 324mm active / passive lightweight torpedoes or depth charges

The helicopter is fitted with a Lockheed Martin AN/ALQ-210 electronic support measures system (ESM). Electronic warfare systems include missile warning devices, laser warning system, infrared jammer and chaff and flare decoy dispenser, forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and laser rangefinder.For anti-submarine warfare missions, the helicopter is equipped with a sonobuoy launcher and a Raytheon AN / AQS-22 advanced airborne low-frequency dipping sonar. The helicopter’s radar is the Telephonics AN / APS-147 multi-mode radar, which has inverse synthetic aperture (ISAR) imaging and periscope and small target detection capabilities.

The MH-60R is constructed with tolerance to small arms fire and medium-calibre high-explosive projectiles. The flight controls have dual-redundancy and ballistically hardened flight controls. The fuel tank is self-sealing. The helicopter is fitted with energy-absorbing landing gear.The upper controls and hub are ballistically tolerant and the rotor blades are tolerant against 23mm rounds. The tail rotor has redundant fail-safe controls. The modular transmission system is fitted with fail safe lubrication. The hydraulics and electrical systems are triple-redundant.

The helicopter is powered by two General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft engines rated at 1,425kW. The internal self-sealing fuel tanks have a capacity of 2,230l. The MH-60R can climb at a rate of 1675 feet/minute. The maximum and cruise speed of the helicopter are 145 knots and 90 knots respectively, while the range is 450 nm. The helicopter weighs around 6,900kg and has a maximum take-off weight of 10,660kg.

The MH-60R is the most modern variant of the SH-60 family which have proved to be the most successful and reliable of shipboard ASW helicopters of the current generation. Between the P-8I and the MH-60R the IN's ASW capability will be firmly and almost exclusively in the American camp. In terms of selecting the best there is there can be no doubt about this choice.