[mi2n]

Originally Posted by AJ-got-BHP

The positives with the Dzire coming in :

1. The transport scenario of the city will 'look' more updated
2. The passengers/ commuters shall get superior comfort with or without AC
3. Low cost of maintenance in comparison to the other options available to the Taxi Operators now
4. You will not fear the Ambassador Taxis pulling off your rear bumper or ramming you from behind due to poor braking system - they are more cautious and worried now as their cost of accidental repairs with the Dzire has gone up

The 4th advantage is absolutely the most welcome one. Though I think it's the bullying drivers and not the poor braking system ( latest Ambys came with front discs) that causes much suffering. Today, I noticed a Dzire taxi with an extreme overdose of bumper protection strips. Guess, they now get the same treatment they used to dish out earlier.

I do have two more advantages to add though.

5. The other day I offered a lift to one of my colleagues who came from our Mumbai office to Dumdum airport. On the way, he remarked that the demise of the Amby taxis could push up the average speed of traffic in the city by 5 kmph. I agree, I could already feel the difference in my daily commute prior to the onset of the monsoon.

6. Less driving stress for the cab drivers resulting in relatively better behavior. Power steering, air conditioning (in AC cabs), less noise and heat, and no foul smoke seeping into the cabin through the sad excuse of a firewall makes life a lot easier for the cab drivers.

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by silversteed

However, the pax would really miss the plush rear seat of the Amby

I have always found, contrary to popular perception, that the Ambassador rear seat is not very comfortable. My height is 6-2 and it would seem that I would love the Ambassador but generally I find the Amby taxis have a deep foot well but not a particularly large amount of space for the feet. In addition the slope of the rear seat is terrible and unergonomic, not at all fit for a long journey. The seat does, however, provide good thigh support.

In terms of rear legroom, vehicles that stand out for space and comfort are the Indica / Indigo, Innova and Logan.

Originally Posted by mi2n

I do have two more advantages to add though.

5. The other day I offered a lift to one of my colleagues who came from our Mumbai office to Dumdum airport. On the way, he remarked that the demise of the Amby taxis could push up the average speed of traffic in the city by 5 kmph. I agree, I could already feel the difference in my daily commute prior to the onset of the monsoon.

6. Less driving stress for the cab drivers resulting in relatively better behavior. Power steering, air conditioning (in AC cabs), less noise and heat, and no foul smoke seeping into the cabin through the sad excuse of a firewall makes life a lot easier for the cab drivers.

I would add - (7) more space on roads due to smaller footprint of the Swift, as well as easier driving due to lesser visual obstruction of the road ahead. Also the fact that ambassador windscreen and window design is sub-optimal for crowded roads and bad weather conditions; add the height of the vehicle and the driver will have a tough job getting visual inputs from around.

I wish there was a way to film the first few days of driving a Swift by a former Ambassador driver.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by AJ-got-BHP

to your point totally.

But since the Logan had a really negligible market share in Kolkata and that the Etios was never a part of the Taxi Segment (apart from in a scattered way with select private taxi operators) in Kolkata, it is difficult to make the cult understand the facts of the maintenance costs of these vehicles and the benefits of operating with such amazing cars.

Logan and Etios can never be a part of official Kolkata taxi as the State Government decides which are the cars that can be run as metered taxis. Long time ago it was only Ambassador and Fiat (Premier). With the demise of Premier, Tata Indigo was added to the list along with Ambassador. The Governments used to have a soft corner for Ambassador as the factory is located in Bengal. Swift has been added to the list when Ambassador production started dwindling. So, at the moment, you can have only two variants -- Tata Indigo and Swift Dzire. I believe more people are opting for Dzire simply because it's a trouble free car compared to the Indigos.

I am not sure about any state government rule regarding other forms of taxis like Uber, Ola or Megacab. Probably there is, as I am yet to find cars other than Tata Indigo and Swift Dzire operating in this segment.

You can have Logan or Etios or any other car as commercial vehicle though, but they are not taxis.

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Logan and Etios can never be a part of official Kolkata taxi as the State Government decides which are the cars that can be run as metered taxis.

The rule regarding vehicle eligibility to be run as metered taxis is not model specific. The vehicle only has to conform to a few parameters (engine capacity, age of vehicle, emission norms, etc.). Please see page 2 of the enclosed Notification.

Taxi Notification.pdf

On rare occasions I see a few Maruti Esteem yellow taxis and once I have seen a Santro. A reason why Logan and Etios may not be finding favour as metered taxis could be due to the relatively few service centres (for that matter those models are rarely seen as non-commercial vehicles also) and the lack of a cheap stripped down version available.

One factor that greatly influences choice of car model is that almost no new permits have been issued in years. As a result, the 'new' taxis are usually old permits in new vehicles -- usually a forced move due to the 15 year rule or irreparable damage to existing vehicle. The holder of an existing permit is thus going to buy the cheapest vehicle he can afford -- which is where the Swift Tour has a huge advantage.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Suggest you to read the maintenance schedules of all the three engines for your awareness. That should help you understand better.

I had to really search to get the maintenance schedules for all 3 cars, finally found it on cardekho.com

Costs seem to be about the same with Etios being the cheapest, Dzire next followed by the Logan. But nothing earth shattering, with a difference of just a couple thousands over a 6 year period.

What's the basis for your claims? Please post some facts, links to buttress your claims rather than making me hunt high and low.

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

What's the basis for your claims? Please post some facts, links to buttress your claims rather than making me hunt high and low.

hello Mate,

Please do read this thread, he has explained it in detail.
However be ready for a long reading as the thread is around 19 pages.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...5-000-kms.html

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

hello Mate,

Please do read this thread, he has explained it in detail.
However be ready for a long reading as the thread is around 19 pages.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...5-000-kms.html

Dude,

I went through the ownership review and quite frankly, it was a waste of my time.

There is no comparison there between the 3 models you mentioned. Yes the Etios is a competent car, but no where in the thread is there any thing to substantiate your claim "Tour will not be an easy on pocket maintenance car, the Logan and Etios are better cost savers when it comes to servicing. The Engine requires a lot of consumables unlike Logan/Etios. "

Do you have any basis for these claims?

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

There is no comparison there between the 3 models you mentioned. Yes the Etios is a competent car, but no where in the thread is there any thing to substantiate your claim "Tour will not be an easy on pocket maintenance car, the Logan and Etios are better cost savers when it comes to servicing. The Engine requires a lot of consumables unlike Logan/Etios. "

Do you have any basis for these claims?

I have no cost comparison at hand, but the reasons why Etios is cheaper to maintain than a Dzire are as follows:

1. Servicing interval 10K km instead of 5K km
2. Life time fuel filter
3. Life time timing chain
4. Life time Transmission Oil
5. Life time Clutch Fluid
6. 1,50,000 kms replacement interval coolant
7. 40,000 replacement interval air filter
8. Mineral oil by default ( Toyota doesn't force synthetic oil on its customers )
9. Long life piezo electric injectors ( vs Solenoid ones )

Should be a lot of cost saving in the long run.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

I have no cost comparison at hand, but the reasons why Etios is cheaper to maintain than a Dzire are as follows:

1. Servicing interval 10K km instead of 5K km
2. Life time fuel filter
3. Life time timing chain
4. Life time Transmission Oil
5. Life time Clutch Fluid
6. 1,50,000 kms replacement interval coolant
7. 40,000 replacement interval air filter
8. Mineral oil by default ( Toyota doesn't force synthetic oil on its customers )
9. Long life piezo electric injectors ( vs Solenoid ones )

Should be a lot of cost saving in the long run.

Where did you get the 5k service interval for Dzire? Its 10 k kms.
Also, even though Toyota says its lifetime Fuel filter, in many cases, the fuel filter has needed to be changed. Please see users post here. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3711440

As mentioned earlier, the service costs for each of the 3 cars mentioned above are roughly similar, with a difference of about 2-3k over a 6 year ownership period. This is as per data on Cardekho. Hardly enough incentive to choose one over another.

Please understand that I am not trying to run down the Etios as a competent car. I'm just unable to understand the basis behind the claim that the Etios or the Logan engine would consume less than the D'Zire.

[mi2n]

Originally Posted by Kumar R

I would add - (7) more space on roads due to smaller footprint of the Swift, as well as easier driving due to lesser visual obstruction of the road ahead. Also the fact that ambassador windscreen and window design is sub-optimal for crowded roads and bad weather conditions; add the height of the vehicle and the driver will have a tough job getting visual inputs from around.

While agreeing with the smaller footprint part, I would like to contradict with your findings partially, especially the part marked in bold, which from my personal experience I do not find to be true. Due to the thin A-Pillars, quarter glass, non-obstructive dashboard and low window sills, the Amby does provide a rather comprehensive view of the surroundings. Add to it the commanding seating position rivaled only by the Tata Sumo. Getting a view of your headlamp shroud/bezel from your driving position is not a luxury modern cars dish out. For this reason, you will notice that many people attach those plastic/steel contraptions to their bumpers and fenders just to get an idea about the dimension of their modern hatch or sedan. This is a non issue in an Amby or Sumo. Rearward view too is much more practical than modern cars. You have, however, correctly pointed out the issues faced in bad weather conditions and it is only because the Amby (non-AC) does not have a windshield demister/defogger and the wipers(if found working) are just plain sad. That said, I do face similar issue of perpetual windscreen fogging in many modern cars carrying the cab-forward design too.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Also, even though Toyota says its lifetime Fuel filter, in many cases, the fuel filter has needed to be changed. Please see users post here. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3711440

As mentioned earlier, the service costs for each of the 3 cars mentioned above are roughly similar, with a difference of about 2-3k over a 6 year ownership period. This is as per data on Cardekho. Hardly enough incentive to choose one over another.

Please understand that I am not trying to run down the Etios as a competent car. I'm just unable to understand the basis behind the claim that the Etios or the Logan engine would consume less than the D'Zire.

I am not running down Dzire as a competent car either.

The basis of low running cost were those pointers. I made a mistake with the 10K service interval though, as pointed out by you.

Now, coming to the thread that you refered (by Amalji) where he needed a fuel filter replacement. His replacement was at 71,000 km and the cost was Rs 828/- The same post also points out that a Maruti car (Dzire) needs fuel filter replacement every 20,000 km and the cost is around Rs 3000/-. This means, had Amalji had a Dzire, he would have spent Rs 9000/- on fuel filter replacement alone, while he had shelled out Rs 828/- so far. So, for 70,000 km running, he has already saved more than Rs 8000/- For a taxi operator running full throttle, this savings would be within 7-8 months. But again, changing of Fuel filter is a rare incident in Etios. I am on my Liva with 45K+ km on my odo. No replacement of anything needed so far, not even the brake pads, which still have about 5-6K km to go. Even the air filter did not warrant any replacement though the manual says "inspect" at 40K.

Also account for the fact that you do not need to change/top up coolant, transmission oil and that Etios runs on mineral oil instead of synthetic oil are quite a saving.

Yes, the service cost of both the cars are by and large the same, as pointed out by CarDekho. But that's the cost for regular servicing, not taking into account the replacements needed.

However, there is one big plus with Maruti Dzire. The spare parts (OEM and non-OEM) are available all over the town. So, a jugaad kind of maintenance is easier for a Maruti vehicle. The taxi owners love this. It's difficult to have that with a Etios.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Yes, the service cost of both the cars are by and large the same, as pointed out by CarDekho. But that's the cost for regular servicing, not taking into account the replacements needed.

However, there is one big plus with Maruti Dzire. The spare parts (OEM and non-OEM) are available all over the town. So, a jugaad kind of maintenance is easier for a Maruti vehicle. The taxi owners love this. It's difficult to have that with a Etios.

Service costs on Cardeko include spare part replacements. Also, this still does not answer my question about the claim that Logan was also cheaper than Dzire. Still awaiting a reply from ku69rd on that.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

1. Servicing interval 10K km instead of 5K km

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Where did you get the 5k service interval for Dzire? Its 10 k kms.

Dzire needs only a checkup every 5k km. Service interval is 10k km.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

7. 40,000 replacement interval air filter
8. Mineral oil by default

40k interval for air filter replacement sounds too good to be true, as it needs to be inspected and replaced based on the running conditions. In dusty areas, 40k seems like a stretch.

Even MS doesn't force customers to use synthetic, though they give the option during service.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

...Still awaiting a reply from ku69rd on that.

+1

[AJ-got-BHP]

Originally Posted by Kumar R

The rule regarding vehicle eligibility to be run as metered taxis is not model specific. The vehicle only has to conform to a few parameters (engine capacity, age of vehicle, emission norms, etc.). Please see page 2 of the enclosed Notification.

Attachment 1393470

The attached Notification in reference to the NO REFUSAL TAXIS does come in handy in this discussion. Thanks for sharing the same.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Logan and Etios can never be a part of official Kolkata taxi as the State Government decides which are the cars that can be run as metered taxis.

I completely disagree to this statement of yours. Kindly refer to the Notification attached by BHPian KumarR which is self explanatory.

I would like to mention that I myself see a Ford Classic (Diesel) which is a NO REFUSAL TAXI outside my house everyday. Also, in July 2014 (a year ago) when I had Purchased my ETIOS GD, I had seen a NO REFUSAL Toyota Etios at the Toyota Dealership as well which was ready for delivery.

However, both Ford & Toyota stepped back from entering into the Taxi Market fearing that they might loose out on the Private Buyers which were opting to buy these cars. I presume that at the back of their mind they knew that getting into rivalry with Maruti Dzire Tour in Kolkata Taxi Market would not be a great idea and thus they just let go of the situation; not getting into the rat race any further.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

I have no cost comparison at hand, but the reasons why Etios is cheaper to maintain than a Dzire are as follows:

1. Servicing interval 10K km instead of 5K km
2. Life time fuel filter
3. Life time timing chain
4. Life time Transmission Oil
5. Life time Clutch Fluid
6. 1,50,000 kms replacement interval coolant
7. 40,000 replacement interval air filter
8. Mineral oil by default ( Toyota doesn't force synthetic oil on its customers )
9. Long life piezo electric injectors ( vs Solenoid ones )

Should be a lot of cost saving in the long run.

Again we are forgetting here that the word "Life Time" is ambiguous. For a Private Car buyer it is different and for a Taxi Operator it is different. A Kolkata Yellow or a No Refusal Taxi is supposed to have a run of 200 Kms a day. That means it's lifetime run would approximately be 9,00,000 Kms in a span of 15 Years. Which is very rare in case of a Private User.

Owning a Toyota myself, I had crossed checked the same with them. The word Lifetime implies to different Odo readings. Timing Belt needs to be replaced @ 1,50,000 Kms whereas the Transmission Oil needs to be replaced at every 1,00,000 Kms.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

I am not running down Dzire as a competent car either.

However, there is one big plus with Maruti Dzire. The spare parts (OEM and non-OEM) are available all over the town. So, a jugaad kind of maintenance is easier for a Maruti vehicle. The taxi owners love this. It's difficult to have that with a Etios.

Totally agree with you on this one !!

Senior BHPian ku69rd residing in Bangalore suggested that the ETIOS & LOGAN were better bets as Taxis since these vehicles ply in Bangalore in huge numbers as Taxis. However, the state of affairs are different here in the City of Joy.

MGP is very easily available in all parts of the city with the replacement market parts dealers which is one of the biggest unseen advantages of the Dzire gaining the popularity that it has got already. Plus, OEM parts manufactured by parts manufacturers supplying to Maruti is also available in the market which makes the maintenance pocket friendly to the Taxi Operators.

However, amidst all this conversation we are forgetting what the HM Ambassadors were mainly used for in the Trading Hub of Eastern India. Carrying materials from Point A to Point B in their enormous boot. Attaching a random googled Pic :



In numerous trading places of North Kolkata like Burabazaar, College Street, Posta etc. one found find and recall this image countless times. Even late at nights, one can see the odd Fruit & Vegetable Peddlers carrying their stock for the next day sales in the Amby. Though recent police penalties have restricted the Boot Lid to be kept open. However, they still carry load in their boot as a commercial runner and make money by charging that extra bit to the sender.

It would be interesting to see whether the same happens in the Dzire Tours as well. Though they can gulp in a lot of Lugguage in their boot; the extended rear overhang would make way for the odd underbelly hit and it will not be advisable to encourage this practice in the times to come. Good in a way !!

[mi2n]

Originally Posted by AJ-got-BHP

I would like to mention that I myself see a Ford Classic (Diesel) which is a NO REFUSAL TAXI outside my house everyday. Also, in July 2014 (a year ago) when I had Purchased my ETIOS GD, I had seen a NO REFUSAL Toyota Etios at the Toyota Dealership as well which was ready for delivery.

However, both Ford & Toyota stepped back from entering into the Taxi Market fearing that they might loose out on the Private Buyers which were opting to buy these cars. I presume that at the back of their mind they knew that getting into rivalry with Maruti Dzire Tour in Kolkata Taxi Market would not be a great idea and thus they just let go of the situation; not getting into the rat race any further.

Arav, through my daily commute I have come across Ford Classics , Mahindra Veritos, Tata Manzas and an odd Fiat Linea plying wearing the White with Blue stripes "No Refusal" badge and "Same Fare" displayed on multiple locations. All were normal meter taxis. Apart from these, I do often come across Honda Amaze, Toyota Etios & Innova, Chevrolet Enjoy, etc. donning the same White with Blue theme with the words "Tourist Taxi" in place of the regular " No Refusal".