[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Those are, in my mind at least, without doubt a part of the passive sensors package. Several submarines have them - British, French, Swedish for example. I am quite sure they are not temporary. The red guard is in place as the boat is berthed on the surface for a ceremony where land lubbers will be on the deck and you don't want them accidentally hitting it or falling over and damaging the radome. Radomes are typically made of a special plastic.

Interesting to think these protrusions can withstand tonnes of (water) pressure and substantially loading as this things moves submerged but still need protecting from somebody accidentally bumping into it.

I agree they are probably some sort of sensors, but I have never seen anything like this yet. But then again, I do not know much about submarines! I can say that i have not seen anything like this on the Dutch subs I have visited.

Jeroen

Jeroen

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Interesting to think these protrusions can withstand tonnes of (water) pressure and substantially loading as this things moves submerged but still need protecting from somebody accidentally bumping into it.

These lie outside the volume of the pressure hull like almost all sonar equipment and the cavity within is filled with water when dived. So that does away with the need to bear the water pressure at depth. As for speed, the radomes of aircraft cope with a lot of speed;similarly these devices. The plastic is for transparency. In the British Oberon class conventional submarines most of the fin was made of plastic. Photos below of modern subs with these protrusions.

[V.Narayan]

India transfers INS Sindhuvir, Kilo class submarine, to Myanmar

In what is a first India transferred one of its Kilo class 3000 tonne diesel electric SSKs to Myanmar. The submarine is to serve as a training and familiarization platform for the Myanmar Navy. The IN is to assist them which I assume includes training the first crew in India. The boat underwent a full refit before delivery. She was commissioned in 1988 and could be assumed to be an interim asset till the Myanmar Navy acquires a newer fleet.

This is a strategic move as China recently sold two Type 035G Ming class to Bangladesh and has on order 3 Yuan Class from Thailand the other nation that abuts the Andaman Sea. Steel was cut on the first in 2018.

Sadly we don't build our own submarine design yet despite having started on the then superlative HDW Type 1500 design in the 1980s. Don't get me started on that or tears and rants will flow in a torrent.

Our immediate neighbourhood is now full of submarine operating navies - Iran, Pakistan, Myanmar, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Singapore and Indonesia.

The Economic Times https://m.economictimes.com/news/def...w/72467809.cms

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Could be a wise long term play, similar to the Chinese kitting out all our neighbours with designs of theirs. Imagine the PLAN must have an office somewhere building up quite the database on IN boats and their acoustic signatures and other key details, much like we'll also be doing.

I've read conflicting reports about an additional order of P-8 Poseidons but surely now more than ever this proves that we have more boats to keep track of. Hopefully the IN is already on the phone trying to fix up a USN joint ASW exercise in the Bay or Bengal. Imagine the Americans would be keen to share knowledge in this regard, as our interests align with theirs. Wonder if India could invest in setting up the equivalent of the GIUK gap network from the Cold War days that was designed to keep track of Soviet boats moving in and out of their sub pens.

[travancore]

courtesy: Ward family and Indian Navy.

An interesting narrative on the setting up of the Torpedo School at I.N.S.Valsura, 1942-1946. I could not quite find the right forum to post it in.



https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/insval...a/article2.pdf

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by travancore

courtesy: Ward family and Indian Navy.

An interesting narrative on the setting up of the Torpedo School at I.N.S.Valsura, 1942-1946. I could not quite find the right forum to post it in.

Attachment 1952164

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/insval...a/article2.pdf

Thank you for sharing. A piece of our naval history. The British followed by the Soviets have had a big role in building our Navy. Two officers deserve special mention in the creation of INS Valsura - one of course is the founder Commander Ward and the other is Captain (later Rear Admiral) BR Singh who led it in the late 1950s and early 1960s when the Navy underwent its first phase of modernization.

INS Valsura, based near Jamnagar, is an engineering training school for officers and sailors on all matters related to electronics, electrics, sensors and weapons. The focus is on how the work and how they should be maintained. A similar school named INS Shivaji, near Lonavala, is for propulsion systems.

[mpksuhas]

Came across a post by defence reporter Anantha Krishnan on his Facebook group that a successful test firing of K4 missile was carried out today.

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Found some more details on an instagram account I've recently been following (can't confirm the veracity as the dates don't seem to add up to mpksuhas post)

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7z5f3vl..._web_copy_link

In a major milestone to augment India’s Naval prowess, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Friday conducted the last developmental trial of intermediate range Submarine launched Ballistic Missile (SLBM) K-4 making the weapon ready for its series of production and induction in the Armed Forces.

The indigenously developed missile with a dummy payload was fired from a pontoon (replica of a submarine) submerged in the Bay of Bengal, nearly 45 nautical miles off Visakhapatnam coast. Capable of delivering nuclear warhead 3,500 km away, the missile was tested for a reduced range to validate new technologies incorporated in the system.
Starting from successfully clearing the launch tube from a depth of around 50 metre and breaking the water surface to stage separation and maintaining the ballistic trajectory as expected, the missile achieved all mission parameters before zeroing on the pre-designated target with high accuracy.
“The mission was of greater significance as the weapon was tested in its deliverable configuration with the active participation of Navy personnel. The missile was flight-tested at a depressed trajectory. The trial was stupendous. The missile is now ready for induction and serial production,” a Ministry of Defence (MoD) official told.
“The consecutive successes reflect the maturity of the country’s capability in designing and developing strategic contemporary systems leading to their production for strengthening its deterrence and defence capabilities”.K-4 can perform three-dimensional manoeuvres to defeat ballistic missile defence systems. It is 12 metre long with a diameter of 1.3 metre and weighs around 17 tonne. It can carry a warhead weighing up to two tonne and is powered solid rocket propellant.

(emphasis mine)

Basically, if this truly was a final delivery spec version, I would say this test is pretty promising. Would imply that our home grown second strike capability has all its pieces tested. I'm no SLBM engineer but I imagine the next big test would be from the Arihant itself. Once that big one is ticked off the real need would be to have that working version of the longer range K-12 operational. I imagine the IN boomers would much prefer being able to carry out their theoretical doomsday punch from the safety of our own waters than having to creep close enough to get within the K-4's range.

[mpksuhas]

Came across this article. Something most of us would anticipate after reading first few lines is mentioned towards the end.

Turkey is actively marketing the Zargana system. It is known to have been exported to Indonesia for their own Type-209 submarines. And Turkey is upgrading some of Pakistan’s Agosta class submarines with the system. These French designed boats will carry part of Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent in the form of the Babur cruise missile

Link

[V.Narayan]

Russia offers three refurbished Kilo Class Submarines to the Indian Navy

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/russ...ss-submarines/

Exerpts from the news article:

The Indian Navy is considering an offer by Russia’s state-owned JSC United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) for three refurbished Kilo-class submarines to augment its shortfall in diesel-electric submarines (SSKs), according to local media reports.
USC reportedly offered a $1.8-2 billion “three plus three” package that would include upgrade work on three Indian Navy Sindhughosh Kilo (Project 877EKM)-class SSKs with an additional three refurbished Russian Navy Kilo-class hulls.

The Indian Navy would receive the Russian-made SSKs at one-year intervals with the first boat slated for delivery three years after the conclusion of the agreement. The refit of the three Sindhughosh Kilo (Project 877EKM)-class SSKs, which entered service in 1990, 1991, and 2000 respectively, would extend their operational life by 10 years.

“One important capability which the Kilos provide India is their submarine launched cruise missiles,” naval analyst H I Sutton wrote for Forbes earlier this week. “They are equipped with the Russian supplied 3M-14E Club-S missile which is roughly similar to the American Tomahawk.”

The Russian 3M-54E1 Klub-S submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) has an estimated 220 kilometer range against surface targets.

Something is better than nothing. Given the time it takes to close a large new deal and build out new submarines this could be a sensible route to take. Navies take a generation to build. The shortfalls we are facing today are a direct consequence of budgetary and decision shortfalls in the 2000 to 2014 time frame. It is not fair to our submariners that they dive in boats that are 30 to 35 years old.

File Photo of INS Sindhukirti, Kilo class 3000 tonne submarine. Commissioned in 1990. A sixth of the crew are topside enjoying the breeze and the sun! Note the streamlined hull. Source: Wikipedia

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Russia offers three refurbished Kilo Class Submarines to the Indian Navy
Exerpts from the news article:

Something is better than nothing.

I think it would be wise to snap up this offer. With due diligence and proper protocol following these can be valuable additions. Afterall the Kilo are remarkably capable & stealthy near shore operators. With the red flagged surface ships, submarines and drones now frequenting IOR, India really needs to urgently ramp up the undersea fleet. Not many more options I think that can be as fast as picking up these partially ready ships.

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Russia offers three refurbished Kilo Class Submarines to the Indian Navy..

This deal is Exactly in the sort of cost middle ground that the Indian procurement Babu will fall for. The Russians are very clever. My worry is this, India might go for this given that at $2billion that's a relatively good value deal for 3 more refurbished hulls and a combined service life extension on 3 more existing hulls, but the Russians have hardly proven to be great lately at keeping costs in control. Last thing we'd want is another Vikramaditya situation where what once made excellent fiscal sense just ballooned into a national defence kit car project that sucked up a whole lot of our time and money. They Have to ensure that whatever contract it is, is a fixed price contract.

It pains me but given the latest Defence Procurement Policy rather publicly lists the leasing route to circumvent the massive capital outlays for big ticket projects, this sort of wheeler dealer pitch from the Russians is the ideal bait. Where we should make the most of a slow but steady stream of license built Scorpenes, instead realistically this patch work deal will be the only one that has a very strong chance of getting signed even in a bleak time like this.

And as Reinhard says, we need more hulls to combat the increasing PLAN presence in the IOR on top of the usual adversaries.

[V.Narayan]

INS Arighat, second SSBN of the Indian Navy completes sea trials and set to commission in end-2020

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/after-...ce-by-2020-end

INS Arighat has completed almost three years of extensive sea trials of its nuclear power plant and SLBM missile systems and is now being readied to join the fleet before the year is out.

By going step by step and without falling for bombastic projects that tickle politicians the Indian Navy and its industrial partners have gone in 50 years from building licensed design frigates to designing and building first class destroyers like the Kolkata class and SSBNs like the Arihant class. How difficult and challenging this journey has been, and the derision we faced from the West, you can gauge by reading post #37 in this threadhttps://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles/161202-indian-navy-shipbuilders-navy-ins-nilgiri-ins-godavari-ins-brahmaputra-3.html

As an aide memoire INS Arighat, like its sister boat INS Arihant, carries 12 K-15 750kms short-range SLBM or 4 K-4 3500 kms medium range SLBMs. The shorter ranged K-15's are in service. The longer ranged K-4's are under trials.

Two more boats are under construction for entry into service in 2023 and 2025. They will have a lengthened mid-section to accommodate a large number of missiles. Ideally we should have 5 in commission to ensure at least one is at sea at all times and sometimes have two at sea.

Jai Hind.

SSBN - Ballistic missile armed nuclear powered submarine; SLBM - submarine launched ballistic missile; always presumed to carry a nuclear warhead.
Photo source: swarajya.com

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

...

Two more boats are under construction for entry into service in 2023 and 2025. They will have a lengthened mid-section to accommodate a large number of missiles. Ideally we should have 5 in commission to ensure at least one is at sea at all times and sometimes have two at sea.

Jai Hind....

Why do we expect only 1 or 2 in sea and not 3 - 4 out in deep waters out of the 5 (assuming we have 5 commissioned)?

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Why do we expect only 1 or 2 in sea and not 3 - 4 out in deep waters out of the 5 (assuming we have 5 commissioned)?

So going by what I've seen with the USN, RN and others there's almost like a rule of thumb that goes like this -
It's like a rule of thirds. If you have 3 boats. 1 will be in refit/repairs/maintenance; a second will be on training leaving your third available for at sea operations.
This is pretty much the pattern that is followed and I have a feeling that's where V.Narayan got his calculation from. Correct me if I'm wrong but this thumb rule seems to also work for surface vessels too?

If you think about it boomers and their operational tempo have a very regular tempo to it. If you see the USN careers prospectus's they openly say if you want to raise a family and have a steady career with a fixed cadence of deployments, and the paid opportunity to go to technical school, go down the boomer track; you want excitement, but more work due to the surge nature of SSN deployments you go that way. Ultimately you really only need 1 working boomer out at sea to really achieve your second strike capability. I can't imagine there are many cases short of armageddon where you would find yourself in the predicament of needing to surge out your boomers. India seems to have followed the RN plan of having 4 boats total leaving 1 extra in that rule of thirds basically available to surge out at moments notice. I think that's a reasonable calculation to be made - India certainly doesn't need any more than 5, again as V.Narayan correctly points out. If we take the example of the supercarriers in USN service, Secretary Mattis changed their operational tempo to make their deployments more irregular, thereby keeping opponents on their toes. Sure this has meant they can have more at sea at a given time but the wear and tear on not just the ships itself but their crew is a thing that's making itself felt a few years later. So if we were to have 3-4 out of 5 boomers out at sea, you can bet your bottom dollar it would mean we'd be left short pressed afterwards when those boats need refit and the crews need to recharge as well.

If anything, it makes more sense to double down on the future SSN's because those would have more utility for the IN (I still maintain a greater complement of AIP SSK's is more appropriate from a cost-capability standpoint to combat PN and PLAN incursions in the IOR - most modern ones have the legs to operate within our regional waters so the nuclear capability would really only be needed to tail PLAN boomers out beyond the IOR say).

Anyway it's good to see the SSBN programme is quietly chugging along. A rare instance of a long term plan being carried out to fruition by all the stakeholders. If only the aerial department brethren had such a similar mix of forward thinking and patience.