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True, bad example, but it is true for the vast majority of major international airports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgQRkd1kQpQ

Still, it is a very simple online course open to all FAA registered pilots.
If you come in under IFR you don’t need it, but as soon as you go VFR you would need it to complete the course. Or put differently, an IFR rating doesn’t get you a waiver, if you’re coming in under VFR you must complete the course.

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/...w=true&cID=405

Pilots, a general question...

Do you guys still use paper charts, and the skills that go with them, at all? Do you even carry them?

I recall, from about thirty years ago, an article in a yachting magazine in which taking out a novice sailor, who happened to be a commercial pilot, for his first sail was mentioned. The pilot didn't really click with boats, but the writer was astonished at his split-second nav skills.

We do carry all the charts in both digital and printed format. But the paper ones aren't used a lot. We have only the approach/SID/STAR chart clipped to the flight deck for quick reference. Rest of them are referred on the EFB. No point in messing around with papers.

Being a private pilot I don't always have the luxury of having approved charts on the plane or even on my iPad. I am also a bit of a nerd when it comes to planning and navigation being both a pilot and ex merchant navy. So I tend to carry and use paper charts next to all available digital means I have at my disposal. I'm probably one of the few last hard core navigators that still knows how to use a sextant! Although I don't carry one with me.

During my flight training my instructor was amazed I bought and knew how to use the old aviation slide rule! I have an electronic aviation calculator and just about all programs and apps on my iPad that can do a better and more accurate job than a slide rule. Still, I like them! I'm also a bit of an old git who thinks you learn better by understanding details. If you can navigate with a paper chart, pen, paper and a slide rule, digital navigation comes easy wit better in depth understanding. This is just an opinion of course

a question.

There is a general perception, and I have myself experienced that, the Boeing 777 is noisier than a comparable Airbus A330 and a Boeing 737 is noisier than an Airbus A320/319. I have felt that. Is it true ? and what is the cause of that ? Insulations, different engine parameters. Kindly clarify

I have flown multiple times in Chennai - Johannesburg sector where Emirates was operating A330 MAA-DXB and Boeing 777 DXB-JNB and there is a difference I could relate.

Swami

On the narrow body aircraft in India paper charts are still widely used. You are not authorised to use your personal devices as a replacement for the paper charts. The EFB( electronic flight bag) which are on the aircraft are authorised as well as the company issued I-pads( Jet Airways has started recently equipping all their Boeing 737 pilots with company issued I-Pad Air2).

And navigating is hardly a skill anymore. It has all gotten reduced to programming the FMC( flight management computer).

No offence, nut the Notion that programming the FMC is the same as navigating is just laughable. It does perhaps illustrate how poorly navigation is understood though? Or perhaps what it is that the FMC/FMS does?

It also illustrates why I am a firm believer of having more in depth insight in navigation then just punching a few numbers into a computer.

If you can't read a chart, can't read NOTAMs, can't read weather report, can't calculate fuel etc etc there is little hope of entering anything remotely sensible in the FMC.

And despite GPS, radio beacons, IRS and a whole lot more navigational aids, planes still manage to land on the wrong airport.

I have decided to hang on to the old sextant and slide rule!

Jeroen

Hello Jeroen, You are welcome to navigate on your private pilots licence using the " old sextant and slide rule!".

The world has moved on. By the way, once you program the FMC there are multiple things that you monitor as your flight progresses. Also, on the ground the FMC is programmed by one pilot, mostly the First Officer and then cross checked with the paper CFP( computerised flight plan) by the other pilot.Once this cross check tallies , most of your programming is done. There are multiple crosschecks. The FMC itself is a sophisticated piece of hardware, taking inputs from 2 independent GPS, 2 independent IRS, and multiple ground based beacons en route.( Besides being monitored at most times by our friends on the ground with their very accurate radars, the ATC).

You may kindly check with other commercial pilots you know about how they brush up on their navigation skills. Except , the odd enthusiast , most of them should corroborate what I say.

I have no idea how many hours of flying you have under your belt Sir, what I write is based on more than my 10,000 hours of commercial flying experience across different airplanes.

I'm no expert, but from whatever I could gather and from my own experience flying in both the types, , it is true that generally, the Airbus planes are quieter than the corresponding Boeing ones (I haven't heard anything about 787 vs 350XWB). This could be due to better cabin insulation, engine characteristics, selection of the cabin pressurization system and so on.
When the A380 came out, many people actually complained that it is too quiet for an airplane. And Airbus actually proposed to install a noise generating device to create more ambient noise. Ambient noise helps in some situations to drown other irregular noises like people chatting, kids crying etc which can be irritating on a long flight. There are some interesting reads on the topic.
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=112131
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758835
https://www.wired.com/2008/12/a380-is-so-quie/

The B737 is certainly noiser than an A320 for sure. In one of my recent flights, I was seated around the same rows in both the B738 and the A320 flight - the 320 was much silent compared to the 738.

It is a fantastic thread and just started reading. But, could not complete all the 27 pages. But, having started to fly in 2003 for the first time and have flown many flights, mostly long hauls, I started loving flying and the interest to know more about the same. When I started, I was very nervous and started reading a website called askcaptainlim.com who, I guess was a Malaysia Airlines retired pilot and a wealth of information in the same. After reading that, the nervousness was over and started enjoying it.

Sorry for the below questions which are probably basic and may have been answered previously. If so, kindly let me know, it is and I will search for it.

Rolling the wheels for take off - I have read these somewhere - What does it really mean ? I think when the aircraft attains certain speed and thrust and based on the wind condition, weight, the take off is done. What is actually done ? like lowering the fins on the tail and making the nose up and thrust to take care ? Is this is the case - please assist

On landing - I have seen many times, when the landing gear is down and on final straight line approach to the runway, I see the thrust going up and the aircraft climbs a little and then lowered (very briefly). I guess it is to maintain the path of glide to match the runway landing point - But, why does it happen with all the computers which are controlling - is it because of Natural issues like wind, aircraft dropping a little bit of height, under what conditions or is it some sort of pilot miscalculation - Please clarify.

Thanks again and if these are answered, kindly do not bother to reply in detail and just tell me to search which I will do. Thanks.

Swami

Are you seriously telling us that all you have done in those 10.000 hours is punch a few numbers into a computer and believe you are navigating? You make a very good example for the FAA Wings program that found no correlation between hours flown and a pilot's proficiency level!

Punch in a few more numbers and enjoy those blue skies. I’d be happy to lend you my sextant and compare notes on navigation. I will leave it at that as this thread is really about 777s.

Jeroen

Hello Swami,

It is actually called the take off roll. The take off speeds and the required thrust settings are calculated at the bay itself once the final take off weight of the aircraft is known. The take off speeds are a function of weight, centre of gravity of the aircraft, the temperature, winds and a few other factors.

Take offs are mostly not done on full thrust but at a reduced thrust( to prolong engine life). The first speed that you hit is called the V1 speed( also called the decision speed or Go-No go speed). The purpose of this speed is to let the pilots know that once you cross this speed you must continue the take off roll,hence the name.So, even if there is an engine fire or any other failure you have to continue with your take off roll if you have crossed V1. The second speed is called the VR or the rotation speed. On reaching this speed, the pilot flying starts pulling back on the control column/ stick to lift the nose off the runway. As soon as you achieve a positive rate of climb, you take the landing gear up and thereafter as you climb you retract the flaps.( This entire process is called cleaning up the aircraft, meaning that getting all the drag causing devices to be stowed).

On the approach phase, mostly the ILS ( instrument landing system) is followed. It is called a precision approach( so called as you get guidance on both the lateral as well as the vertical profiles). The aircraft is descending on a pre determined angle also called as the glide slope angle. To be on the correct profile, the aircraft has to maintain this angle irrespective of the winds, or speed. The fins that you are talking about are called the flaps. They help in giving additional lift at the same speed, however they also increase the drag. This increase in drag is easily counteracted by an increased thrust setting. The whole idea is to get your landing speed down to the lowest level practical, as this minimises the distance required to land. When the flaps are lowered for landing it completely changes the dimensions and area of the wing and you get a feeling of actually climbing, but in reality the aircraft is not climbing and the autopilot/ pilot pushes down on the control column so as to remain on the glide path and not go above it.

Hope it helps.

Jeroen, my answer about navigation was in response to another members query. If you can add anything based on your skills with the sextant please go ahead and enlighten the rest of us rather than casting doubts about things which are way out of your league.

I did not and do no wish to engage with you, and deviate from the topic at hand, and also since you have never handled a real Jet in life , whatever you write is based on your assumptions, whereas I know what I am talking about. Keep the sextant close by, you never know when you may need it, and also it would go a long way in impressing your instructor.

Wrong again! I have flown jets. You really ought to sign up for the FAA wings program. Don't worry they won't talk about sextants.

Enjoy

Jeroen

Hi Sami,
Yes, that’s quite an informative site.

There are several aviation related threads on this forum too. This one contains a lot of information on the 777, but a lot of it applies to other planes as well. Often you will see some other topics being discussed on this very same thread.

Another thread with a huge wealth of aviation related information is this one:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...ms-review.html

As you say, there is a vast number of aviation related sites out there on the net.

This is one of the best: http://www.pprune.org

You will find a lot of professionals on it, and some amateurs and some trolls as on any website these days.

Feel free to ask your questions, I’m sure you will get an answer. There are several professional pilots on Team-BHP.

Enjoy

Jeroen